Ecuador impressions
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I'm surprised to hear of mean dogs there. My expereince with 3rd world dogs is that they are at the bottom of the pecking order and usually will give strangers a wide berth, especially if they think you have a rock in your hand. The only truly mean dogs I've seen were owned by the upper classes who used them as guard dogs to keep the peasants at bay.
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99% of the dogs here have done exactly that. I happened to meet up with one of the other 1% in Quito. Just my bad luck. In the US I've been attacked by stray dogs too (more than once).
I have been asking myself the same thing since I got here. I like dogs, and would never recommend anything inhumane, but I just don't understand why the locals allow these sad animals to continue to wander around and do things like lift their legs on low-hanging produce at the markets (which I've seen). There's a piece of the puzzle that I'm missing, I guess.
haha
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When I was there a several decades ago-not Ecuador, but other Andean countries- I almost never saw a dog. I think the people were too hungry to let any meat run around, and certainly too hungry to feed them.
Ha
Stray dogs are not an issue at all in Medellin, Colombia, where I am living. And I walk everywhere here.
They were occasionally a minor issue in Chiang Mai, Thailand, the other place I have lived recently. My friend related the story that on his first year there, he was on a motorbike in an alley after dark and a stray dog was there growling at him and he had to woosh buy him on the moto with the dog trying to knaw him. A few seconds later he realized that it was a dead end, and so he had to run the gauntlet again on the way back out.
Anyway, stray dogs are dangerous because if you get bitten by one, you probably have to get rabies shots (there is also about a 5% chance of infection from any healthy dog bite). The actual pain of the bite or threat of physical pain from the dog is not that great, it is the rabies issue. I had to get out of the habit of petting strange dogs, as I would do in the States.
I have heard that in some places in Mexico the cats tend to live on the roofs because the dogs will get them at ground level.
I don't think stray dogs seemed to be a problem during my visit to Vietnam, either, but for (ahem) different reasons.
Kramer
They were occasionally a minor issue in Chiang Mai, Thailand, the other place I have lived recently. My friend related the story that on his first year there, he was on a motorbike in an alley after dark and a stray dog was there growling at him and he had to woosh buy him on the moto with the dog trying to knaw him. A few seconds later he realized that it was a dead end, and so he had to run the gauntlet again on the way back out.
Anyway, stray dogs are dangerous because if you get bitten by one, you probably have to get rabies shots (there is also about a 5% chance of infection from any healthy dog bite). The actual pain of the bite or threat of physical pain from the dog is not that great, it is the rabies issue. I had to get out of the habit of petting strange dogs, as I would do in the States.
I have heard that in some places in Mexico the cats tend to live on the roofs because the dogs will get them at ground level.
I don't think stray dogs seemed to be a problem during my visit to Vietnam, either, but for (ahem) different reasons.
Kramer
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Very keen observation about the dogs and cats. I have not had any problems with the dogs unless there in a pack. When I see that I change directions. I always wondered why the cats hang out on roof tops, now I know.
The dogs in Ecuador are starving. That's why they are mean. While traveling there I was shocked by the disregard that Ecuadorans had for the welfare of the street animals. They just ignored them completely. I saw a scrawny dog standing patiently next to a woman cooking food at a road side stand who just totally ignored the animal. It was clearly, to me, her dog.
At least in Peru, where even street dogs look well fed, if the dog problem gets out of hand, the officials reduce the population. The attitude toward the dogs in Peru was interesting to me. They treat the family dog as a free agent, do not neuter, and after breakfast turn him out to go and do things dogs do. There's a certain amount of respect for the animal which I appreciated. But then again, there's the problem of overpopulation.
As for Ecuador, Cuenca is a splendid city. Quito has a lot of air polution. There are no smog devices on the many cars.
The Galapagos are well worth the money, if you can afford it and you are an animal lover. The snorkeling there was absolutely the best I've ever experienced! I snorkeled with penguins and sea lions as well as big schools of fish. It was divine! But the water is cold; you need a wet suit.
Peru, I thought, was a much more beautiful country with a fascinating history and a culture that still maintains its Inca heritage, despite the Spanish influence. Ecuador is very Catholic, which may appeal to some and not others.
At least in Peru, where even street dogs look well fed, if the dog problem gets out of hand, the officials reduce the population. The attitude toward the dogs in Peru was interesting to me. They treat the family dog as a free agent, do not neuter, and after breakfast turn him out to go and do things dogs do. There's a certain amount of respect for the animal which I appreciated. But then again, there's the problem of overpopulation.
As for Ecuador, Cuenca is a splendid city. Quito has a lot of air polution. There are no smog devices on the many cars.
The Galapagos are well worth the money, if you can afford it and you are an animal lover. The snorkeling there was absolutely the best I've ever experienced! I snorkeled with penguins and sea lions as well as big schools of fish. It was divine! But the water is cold; you need a wet suit.
Peru, I thought, was a much more beautiful country with a fascinating history and a culture that still maintains its Inca heritage, despite the Spanish influence. Ecuador is very Catholic, which may appeal to some and not others.
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My last stop on the Ecuadorian coast is the lengendary Montañita. I say "legendary" because I've been hearing about the place from almost everyone I've met in in this country. Montañita is apparently the Ecuadorian capital of sea, surf, sun, and sex. And that about sums it up. It's an almost Disney-like little village built on the edge of the country's best surfing beach.
If you're a 22-yr-old surfer, you'd probably love Montañita. In fact, you'd probably never want to leave. It's a very young and hip crowd here, and unfortunately I'm neither. I feel out of place, about 25 yrs older than the implicit cut-off. The parties start around midnight and routinely overflow into streets. After sleeping it off, everyone gets up and surfs. What a life.
But it's not for me, so this place doesn't get my recommendation as a potential expat haven. Here are a couple of pix of Montañita:
If you're a 22-yr-old surfer, you'd probably love Montañita. In fact, you'd probably never want to leave. It's a very young and hip crowd here, and unfortunately I'm neither. I feel out of place, about 25 yrs older than the implicit cut-off. The parties start around midnight and routinely overflow into streets. After sleeping it off, everyone gets up and surfs. What a life.
But it's not for me, so this place doesn't get my recommendation as a potential expat haven. Here are a couple of pix of Montañita:
haha
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Could we see some of the sex objects?
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Onward,
I've been following your journeys in Ecuador, particularly down to the coast, with a lot of interest. After you left Otavalo, I was waiting for you to resurface.
Spent about 5 weeks there in the late 1980s. At that time Quito wasn't particularly bustling nor do I remember pollution or concern about crime. We stayed with some friends from Chile who had a house there. Also went into the Amazon region (to what may have been one of the first tourist lodges in the area) and to Cuenca, which was lovely.
From Otavalo, though, we went north to Ibarra and took the train down to the coast ending up in San Lorenzo or Valdez, where the coastal roads south started. Did you consider doing this?
At that time there were no roads in the region. It was either backtrack, I'm remembering, or take the train, which was supposed to be spectacular. From Valdez we were able to take a bus down to Esmeraldas for the night and then transfer to buses that would reach beach communities. My guess is that we remained well to the north of where you were.
At the time I was traveling a lot and had been a number of places where there were either few foreigners (remote areas of Borneo) or political tensions (NW frontier of Pakistan, Bangladesh). Nothing compared in danger or social tension to that part of Ecuador. Enormous disparities in income; I'm remembering that the ancestors of the inhabitants of the marshy northern coastal region were escaped slaves.
To be brief, the train was only way for desperate folks to reach the villages on the western slope of the Andes where life was at a subsistence level (pretty much just rice and bananas). Tickets could be acquired by graft only; we got ours from some saavy Brits. The only way to use the ticket was not to foolishly wait at the station but to go to the shed, wait for the doors to open, and fight your way onto the train as it started to move. Crowds surrounded the train refusing to let it move, the army was called in then departed. I found that my ticket did not come with a seat - a definite inconvenience for a ride of maybe up to 14 hours.
No one, I noticed, in the crowded train (only one car) grazed, even inadvertently, the seat occupied by a man dressed simply but immaculately in a white shirt and black pants. With the departure of the army and the return of the crowd, he suddenly rose, told everyone to leave the car, and collected their tickets. Leave, turn in mine? My boyfriend said no, stay - I choose. Go for or rather with the power seemed sensible. I stepped off the train into a crowd that was turning into a mob and wanted me to move away from the car entrance. My boyfriend, an old SDS organizer, seeing the tension rise joined me and promptly started a rally, which changed the mood of the crowd almost instantaneously.
The mysterious man reboarded us returning my ticket. It wasn't the original; I now had the best seat on the train (front, away from the gear box) formerly occupied by an expat engineer. He wasn't happy but of course just let it go (he did get a seat - just the second best). The train finally left with men clinging to the sides. Most eventually fell off. Never did figure out who the man in the white shirt was. He refused to let me thank him or talk to me.
The coastal town was a seat of shacks joined by boards over mud. Knives were the weapon of choice. (Don't remember what happened to the expat engineers.)
We reached Esmeraldas, the regional town, by bus the next night. I couldn't convince my boyfriend that going in at night - just the 2 of us now with the Brits having peeled off - was problematic enough that it was necessary to figure it out ahead of time. There are times to pay for a decent hotel; we could have paid the bus driver extra to take us right to it. Instead of agreeing to this, we ended up off the bus having a discussion (well, I was listening) about the social dynamics of our relationship.
I pointed out that groups of young men were coming out of the shadows towards us. There was an open gas station behind us and it was about time to run for it. On the way, a cab actually came down the deserted street and I dragged now confused BF into it. He was somewhat mollified when he was told by some guys at the hotel bar that there was a reason that the only "best" hotel in town (then $20 a night) was surrounded by a high chain link fence.
It was OK to be on the streets in daylight. The town was filled with piles of garbage. At one point a police car pulled up beside us while we at an outside cate. The officer in charge began beating a hapless prisoner on the head while simultaneously fondling him. Don't think this was that out of the ordinary. Pedestrians on the street could see and walked by quickly with fear and loathing on their faces.
Got curious enough - and hit the net. The train still runs although there are roads. There are tours down the tracks given how spectacular the ride it. It was - the tracks literally surrounded by jungle. Glad to see some tourist dollars are reaching that portion of the coast, though imagine it's still pretty poor. It was not at all typical of the rest of Ecuador (different population in the coastal marshes, isolated villages on the slopes, rough oil trade in the town).
I've been following your journeys in Ecuador, particularly down to the coast, with a lot of interest. After you left Otavalo, I was waiting for you to resurface.
Spent about 5 weeks there in the late 1980s. At that time Quito wasn't particularly bustling nor do I remember pollution or concern about crime. We stayed with some friends from Chile who had a house there. Also went into the Amazon region (to what may have been one of the first tourist lodges in the area) and to Cuenca, which was lovely.
From Otavalo, though, we went north to Ibarra and took the train down to the coast ending up in San Lorenzo or Valdez, where the coastal roads south started. Did you consider doing this?
At that time there were no roads in the region. It was either backtrack, I'm remembering, or take the train, which was supposed to be spectacular. From Valdez we were able to take a bus down to Esmeraldas for the night and then transfer to buses that would reach beach communities. My guess is that we remained well to the north of where you were.
At the time I was traveling a lot and had been a number of places where there were either few foreigners (remote areas of Borneo) or political tensions (NW frontier of Pakistan, Bangladesh). Nothing compared in danger or social tension to that part of Ecuador. Enormous disparities in income; I'm remembering that the ancestors of the inhabitants of the marshy northern coastal region were escaped slaves.
To be brief, the train was only way for desperate folks to reach the villages on the western slope of the Andes where life was at a subsistence level (pretty much just rice and bananas). Tickets could be acquired by graft only; we got ours from some saavy Brits. The only way to use the ticket was not to foolishly wait at the station but to go to the shed, wait for the doors to open, and fight your way onto the train as it started to move. Crowds surrounded the train refusing to let it move, the army was called in then departed. I found that my ticket did not come with a seat - a definite inconvenience for a ride of maybe up to 14 hours.
No one, I noticed, in the crowded train (only one car) grazed, even inadvertently, the seat occupied by a man dressed simply but immaculately in a white shirt and black pants. With the departure of the army and the return of the crowd, he suddenly rose, told everyone to leave the car, and collected their tickets. Leave, turn in mine? My boyfriend said no, stay - I choose. Go for or rather with the power seemed sensible. I stepped off the train into a crowd that was turning into a mob and wanted me to move away from the car entrance. My boyfriend, an old SDS organizer, seeing the tension rise joined me and promptly started a rally, which changed the mood of the crowd almost instantaneously.
The mysterious man reboarded us returning my ticket. It wasn't the original; I now had the best seat on the train (front, away from the gear box) formerly occupied by an expat engineer. He wasn't happy but of course just let it go (he did get a seat - just the second best). The train finally left with men clinging to the sides. Most eventually fell off. Never did figure out who the man in the white shirt was. He refused to let me thank him or talk to me.
The coastal town was a seat of shacks joined by boards over mud. Knives were the weapon of choice. (Don't remember what happened to the expat engineers.)
We reached Esmeraldas, the regional town, by bus the next night. I couldn't convince my boyfriend that going in at night - just the 2 of us now with the Brits having peeled off - was problematic enough that it was necessary to figure it out ahead of time. There are times to pay for a decent hotel; we could have paid the bus driver extra to take us right to it. Instead of agreeing to this, we ended up off the bus having a discussion (well, I was listening) about the social dynamics of our relationship.
I pointed out that groups of young men were coming out of the shadows towards us. There was an open gas station behind us and it was about time to run for it. On the way, a cab actually came down the deserted street and I dragged now confused BF into it. He was somewhat mollified when he was told by some guys at the hotel bar that there was a reason that the only "best" hotel in town (then $20 a night) was surrounded by a high chain link fence.
It was OK to be on the streets in daylight. The town was filled with piles of garbage. At one point a police car pulled up beside us while we at an outside cate. The officer in charge began beating a hapless prisoner on the head while simultaneously fondling him. Don't think this was that out of the ordinary. Pedestrians on the street could see and walked by quickly with fear and loathing on their faces.
Got curious enough - and hit the net. The train still runs although there are roads. There are tours down the tracks given how spectacular the ride it. It was - the tracks literally surrounded by jungle. Glad to see some tourist dollars are reaching that portion of the coast, though imagine it's still pretty poor. It was not at all typical of the rest of Ecuador (different population in the coastal marshes, isolated villages on the slopes, rough oil trade in the town).
Green Retirement
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Onward:
As someone who lived and owned a B&B in Costa Rica for four years, I am totally enjoying your reports, and I thank you for taking the time to share it with us all. Muchas Gracias por todo!
As someone who lived and owned a B&B in Costa Rica for four years, I am totally enjoying your reports, and I thank you for taking the time to share it with us all. Muchas Gracias por todo!
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EveryLady, you had much more adventure in Ecuador than I am having! Partly because you were here some time ago, and partly because I am a coward! I didn't go to the north east because my time in Ecuador is limited. Otavalo is as far north as I've been, and unfortunately as far north as I will probably go.
I've been in the city of Cuenca for two days now, and I am thoroughly won over. It is colorful, lively, and magnificent. Take out the cars & power lines, and the city center looks about the same as in 1600--soaring colonial cathedrals, lovely cobblestone walkways, a flower market, spotless parks and plazas all over the place. I've woken up to ancient church bells every morning. I´ve counted three different rivers, all scenic, that run through town. And, prepare yourself: I haven't seen a single stray dog in the city center of Cuenca.
This place has a very European feel. More than once, walking around, I've had a moment of forgetfulness and thought I was in Paris or Prague. (It's probably even more like Spain, but I haven't been there.) There are museums and restaurants of many cusines all over the place here. And unlike Quito, Cuenca is very pleasantly managed on foot.
I believe there are lots of retiree expats here already, though I haven't met them. If you're interested in Ecuador, I strongly suggest you check out Cuenca. You might run into me on some cobblestone street some night....
Couple of pix of Cuenca:
I've been in the city of Cuenca for two days now, and I am thoroughly won over. It is colorful, lively, and magnificent. Take out the cars & power lines, and the city center looks about the same as in 1600--soaring colonial cathedrals, lovely cobblestone walkways, a flower market, spotless parks and plazas all over the place. I've woken up to ancient church bells every morning. I´ve counted three different rivers, all scenic, that run through town. And, prepare yourself: I haven't seen a single stray dog in the city center of Cuenca.
This place has a very European feel. More than once, walking around, I've had a moment of forgetfulness and thought I was in Paris or Prague. (It's probably even more like Spain, but I haven't been there.) There are museums and restaurants of many cusines all over the place here. And unlike Quito, Cuenca is very pleasantly managed on foot.
I believe there are lots of retiree expats here already, though I haven't met them. If you're interested in Ecuador, I strongly suggest you check out Cuenca. You might run into me on some cobblestone street some night....
Couple of pix of Cuenca:
Hi Onward,
We loved Cuenca. We could see that grand cathedral from 2 different hotels in which we stayed - from the balcony in one hotel and from the bathroom in another. I can see why Expats would move there.
For more photos, check here and here
Here's our Travel and Hotel Information for anyone who might be interested.
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement
The Adventurer's Guide to Chapala Living
We loved Cuenca. We could see that grand cathedral from 2 different hotels in which we stayed - from the balcony in one hotel and from the bathroom in another. I can see why Expats would move there.
For more photos, check here and here
Here's our Travel and Hotel Information for anyone who might be interested.
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement
The Adventurer's Guide to Chapala Living
You are absolutely right Kramer. Did you visit the "dog restaurants" village just outside of Hanoi? When I was there in 95, there were at least 20 such "restaurants" right next to each other, and they were all relatively crowded with customers. The variety of dishes were impressive, to say the least.
I'm not sure I see things the same way. Those street dogs, however craggy, however starved, are free. Free to live their live unmolested by their owner. I'm not sure which is considered "shocking disregard", to be well fed but castrated/neutered and "killed" when no longer appealing to the owners, or to be free but wholesome in despite of lack of materialistic needs.
I agree that Cuenca is the gem of Ecuador. Also, I think (?) they have year around decent weather. The place is probably too cool for me, but I think many would like the temperature range. There is a rainy season in March, April, May.
As I have helped other travelers, I realize now that many do not handle altitude so well. So that would be a big consideration for someone in Cuenca (2560 meters, 8400 feet).
Kramer
As I have helped other travelers, I realize now that many do not handle altitude so well. So that would be a big consideration for someone in Cuenca (2560 meters, 8400 feet).
Kramer
Sam, when I was in Saigon, a tour guide really talked up the dog restaurants and convinced me to go to "dog alley". He also explained that middle sized dogs were the best.
Well, I was planning to go to dog alley that evening and probably try it out, but I was with some Brits (2 girls and 1 guy with whom I had learned to scuba dive in Nha Trang) and the girls couldn't stomach the idea, and apparently the dog alley restaurants serve only one kind of meet, canine, no other options, so we passed.
I did try horse in China and it was actually pretty good. My Chinese friend had me taste it before telling me what it was.
I did not try cuy (guinea pig) in Ecuador, unfortunately. The locals did stress that if I did try it, I should go to a good restaurant.
Kramer
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Off topic, but we tried cuy in a ramshackle cafe outside of cusco. We were touring ruins with our teacher from Spanish school and his wife who was a tour guide and moonlighting tom take us around.
The cuy was delicious, once you got past the fact that it was roasted whole, complete with little claws on their little paws, and little ears on their little heads. Stuffed with [-]weeds[/-] local herbs and roasted over an open fire, they couldn't have been tastier. However, we wouldn't have even managed one bite but for our desire not to offend our charming hosts.
The cuy was delicious, once you got past the fact that it was roasted whole, complete with little claws on their little paws, and little ears on their little heads. Stuffed with [-]weeds[/-] local herbs and roasted over an open fire, they couldn't have been tastier. However, we wouldn't have even managed one bite but for our desire not to offend our charming hosts.
Great! Something to look forward to on my next trek to Latin America.
ScottFromUtah
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I have been to Peru four times and have lived there a total of three years, but I have never tried cuy. I have little desire to do so. I have eaten alpaca meat, and it's ok.
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Though this is not my report, I thought it might interest readers of this thread. It's an account of an expat's experience with the health-care system in Cuenca, Ecuador.
Hospital in Cuenca - Santa Ana
Hospital in Cuenca - Santa Ana
Are you at all concerned about government hijinks? When I was on a Galapagos tour in 2008 the guide was very unhappy about some new government legislation that would in effect confiscate inheritances. This would not affect ex-pats of course. But just the idea of living in a country with a really high handed government would make me nervous.
haha
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I became friends with a guy from Quito who lived across the hall from me. An upper middle class or upper class man. He married an American woman and has no plans to return to Ecuador because of his view of their politics. His mother is living in Florida and trying to get residency.
Third world countries have a tendency to be fine until they are not. Check Thailand for a recent example.
Ha
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