A Relative's husband just passed away - Question on SS Survivor Benefits

[cyber888]

So, yesterday, a distant relative called and said her hubby passed away a few day ago.

She took SS when she was 62 years old - and this is based on 50% of her hubby's SS (minus a discount because she took it at 62 and not at 65 or 66 yrs old). It's less than $600/mo. She does not have enough work credits to claim SS on her own (housewife).

So, her hubby gets around $1500 in SS income. Now, he passed, is she suppose to get the hubby's $1500 based on survivor's benefits (or at least near that number)

She said she called SS and they said she does not get the her hubby's bigger SS income. Should she consult a lawyer?

 

[MissMolly]

It's my understanding that as long as she is full retirement age when she files for survivor benefits, she will get 100% of his amount. If she files before FRA it will be a reduced amount.

 

[SecondCor521]

By no means a SS expert, but...

They will receive his regular monthly $1500 amount in January on his regular timing. This January payment is for his December benefits. Since he did not live for all of January, he is not entitled to a payment in February for his January benefits. So the proper thing to happen is for her to receive the January payment but not a February payment. If she does receive a February payment, they will eventually claw it back. If she receives a physical check in February for his benefits, she should return the check uncashed to SS.

Another thing to know about SS survivor benefits is that the terms they use are confusing. Suppose she was getting $600 for her SS and he was getting $1500 for his SS. When he dies, what happens (generally) in practice is that her $600 goes away and she continues to receive the higher $1500 SS benefit. But technically what happens is that his $1500 goes away, she continues to get her $600, and she gets an additional $900 in survivor benefits, which totals the $1500. So the way they use terminology is weird.

She may also be eligible for a $255 one-time death benefit.

See https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/ifyou.html "Widow or Widower" section for general comments. It did say in there that since she and he were both receiving SS, that they should automagically stop his benefits and convert her over to survivor benefits once they receive notice of his death (probably via the funeral home).

I don't think she needs to contact a lawyer yet. The SSA seems to be decently run, and they seem to try to apply the complicated laws appropriate and to the recipients' benefit in almost all cases. She may be helped by a friend or family member (you?) who is willing to go to bat and persist with questions for her. I know the SSA helped me out when I was helping my Dad navigate my Mom's death (they were both on SS at the time, although in their case my Dad was the higher SS amount, so my Mom's SS benefit just ceased as described in the first paragraph above).

 

[RetireeRobert]

Concur with MissMolly and withSecondCor521. She should "eventually" receive 100% of deceased husband's SS amount monthly. She may have been confused about what they supposedly told her on the phone. Or she may not have stated all the correct circumstances correctly to the SS phone rep. Or phone rep "may" have stated a worse case scenario to play it safe.

At any rate, sometime within the next month or two, after SS has been officially notified of husband's death (I believe it is common practice for funeral homes to do that), SS should be sending her by US postal mail an official letter of action. Such letter will advise her of appeal rights and where to file--IF an appeal seems warranted. So, if they mess up and do not award her 100% of deceased husband's amount monthly, she (with help from her advisors--you) can file the written appeal. IF needed. I suspect SS will correctly process her case and she will "eventually" get the correct amount. My comments based on my own experiences last year after my own wife passed away.

 

[pb4uski]

+1 She should start getting $1,500/month in total.

 

[N02L84ER]

There may be a reduction because she filed before her FRA, but it should be higher than her current sub $600. The formula looks like this:

Widow Benefit Formula (reduction for taking before FRA)
MIN(reduction factor * spouse PIA, MAX(RIB * DRC, .825 * spouse PIA))

Reduction Factors (age 60 is 71.5%, age 61 is 75.58%, 62 is 79.65%, 63 is 83.72%, 64 is 87.79%, 65 is 91.86%, 66 is 95.93%, 67 is 100%)
Spouse PIA is husband's full retirement age benefit as though he took it at FRA and is not increased by inflation
RIB, or the Retirement Insurance Benefit, is the actual retirement benefit husband received when he first started collecting retirement benefits.

DRC stands for any additional delayed retirement credits he received by suspending his benefits after attaining full retirement age. This is unusual. 1.08^n years
I recorded this in my notes a couple of years ago. The rules may have changed.


HTH

 

[VanWinkle]

The age she took her benefit/spousal benefit does not affect the survivor benefit. It is affected by her age at the time she claims the survivor benefit. If she is full retirement age or older now, she should get his full benefit. I did not see her current age in the OP. She can claim her own benefit and then change to survivor benefit at a later date. If the reduced survivor benefit is higher than her benefit now, she may want to claim the survivor benefit before her FRA. Clear as mud, right?

 

[ivinsfan]

The last two posts here are just wrong.

Does anyone actually read the original question and facts so that they can answer the actual question?

cyber I suspect the explaining of the mechanics to get to the number was confusing to your relative on the phone under high stress. I think SS might be the best run program in government and they will get it right.

I'm feeling empathy for your relative that she has to be distressed about this right now. This SS money must be pretty crucial to her budget.

 

[VanWinkle]

The last two posts here are just wrong.

Does anyone actually read the original question and facts so that they can answer the actual question?

cyber I suspect the explaining of the mechanics to get to the number was confusing to your relative on the phone under high stress. I think SS might be the best run program in government and they will get it right.

I'm feeling empathy for your relative that she has to be distressed about this right now. This SS money must be pretty crucial to her budget.

Yes I read the question and yes I advised that she is eligible for survivor benefits. I think the SS administration can sort this out. I would not hire an Attorney.

Have a nice day

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes I read the question and yes I advised that she is eligible for survivor benefits. I think the SS administration can sort this out. I would not hire an Attorney.

Have a nice day

Your comment about her age and possible reduction is wrong.

 

[MissMolly]

Your comment about her age and possible reduction is wrong.

I see nothing wrong with VanWinkle's response. Where do you think he was in error? Since my understanding has always been what VanWinkle posted, I would like to know for future reference why this is incorrect.

Thanks

 

[VanWinkle]

Your comment about her age and possible reduction is wrong.

From AARP site on Survivor benefits:

"The survivor benefit is generally calculated on the benefit your late spouse was receiving from Social Security at the time of death (or was entitled to receive, based on age and earnings history, if he or she had not yet claimed benefits). The actual amount of your payment will differ according to your age and family circumstance:

As noted above, if you have reached full retirement age, you get 100 percent of the benefit your spouse was (or would have been) collecting.
If you claim survivor benefits between age 60 (50 if disabled) and your full retirement age, you will receive between 71.5 percent and 99 percent of the deceased’s benefit. (The percentage gets higher the older you are when you claim.)"

 

[bizlady]

I believe she also has to have been married to her husband for at least one year

 

[VanWinkle]

I believe she also has to have been married to her husband for at least 10 years

This applies to a divorced widow claiming on her former deceased husband.
I believe it is 9 months for a new marriage.


"In most cases, a widow or widower qualifies for survivor benefits if he or she is at least 60 and had been married to the deceased for at least nine months at the time of death."


"To qualify for survivor benefits as a divorced spouse, your marriage must have lasted at least 10 years. You must also be unmarried before age 60."

I am not an expert, but I do presentations on Social Security for AARP. Good question bizlady!!!

 

[ivinsfan]

I see nothing wrong with VanWinkle's response. Where do you think he was in error? Since my understanding has always been what VanWinkle posted, I would like to know for future reference why this is incorrect.

Thanks

Well AFIK you don't get discounted twice on age. The widow in this case has already taken an age reduction on her benefit. So she wouldn't take a second age reduction on a survivors benefit. The OP was asking about a specific person in a specific situation. AFWK the husband might have already taken an age reduction when he started his SS. So , then the widow would take her own age reduction when she started before FRA, and another possible age reduction when she went on survivors, and the her deceased husband could have started before FRA for a third reduction. I dont think that happens.

This was a question about a specific person not survivors benefits in general. I wouldn't want someone just reading here to get confused. (or any more confused then they have to be)

It amazes me that SS does such a good job of keeping this straight.. its way complicated...

 

[VanWinkle]

Well AFIK you don't get discounted twice on age. The widow in this case has already taken an age reduction on her benefit. So she wouldn't take a second age reduction on a survivors benefit. The OP was asking about a specific person in a specific situation. AFWK the husband might have already taken an age reduction when he started his SS. So , then the widow would take her own age reduction when she started before FRA, and another possible age reduction when she went on survivors, and the her deceased husband could have started before FRA for a third reduction. I dont think that happens.

This was a question about a specific person not survivors benefits in general. I wouldn't want someone just reading here to get confused. (or any more confused then they have to be)

There is a single reduction of benefits for filing before full retirement age for either her own benefit, a spousal benefit, or a survivor benefit. They do not stack to increase the reduction. I don't think I said that, and I hope no one was confused into believing that.

You were pretty direct with your first post about people being wrong. An explanation would have helped.

Best to you,

VW

 

[cyber888]

Thanks everyone for your feedback and advice. She is now 72 years old and her hubby passed away at 84. She did not divorce him (they were married when he pass away). So I'm hoping she gets the full benefits. I should be able to talk to her soon.

 

[ivinsfan]

There is a single reduction of benefits for filing before full retirement age for either her own benefit, a spousal benefit, or a survivor benefit. They do not stack to increase the reduction. I don't think I said that, and I hope no one was confused into believing that.

You were pretty direct with your first post about people being wrong. An explanation would have helped.

Best to you,

VW

That's why I asked if people read the original question...it's so complicated that if someone asks a direct question about SS it's way easier to just answer what they want to know. Someone just widowed can't pick through all the nuances of SS.

The original post clearly said the lady has already taken an age discount.

No harm meant...

 

[MissMolly]

Well AFIK you don't get discounted twice on age. The widow in this case has already taken an age reduction on her benefit. So she wouldn't take a second age reduction on a survivors benefit. The OP was asking about a specific person in a specific situation. AFWK the husband might have already taken an age reduction when he started his SS. So , then the widow would take her own age reduction when she started before FRA, and another possible age reduction when she went on survivors, and the her deceased husband could have started before FRA for a third reduction. I dont think that happens.

This was a question about a specific person not survivors benefits in general. I wouldn't want someone just reading here to get confused. (or any more confused then they have to be)

It amazes me that SS does such a good job of keeping this straight.. its way complicated...

Well, nobody is really talking about getting discounted twice. She filed for her own at 62, so that was discounted from the amount she would have received had she waited until FRA. However, now we are talking about survivor which has a completely different set of rules. A survivor can claim as early as age 60 (as opposed to 62 for your own benefits). However, if the survivor claims prior to their FRA they get a discounted amount from what the deceased was drawing. If they are FRA or older, they get 100% of what the deceased was drawing (and of course, the survivor's own benefit stops at that point). The amount she can get as a survivor has nothing whatsoever to do with when she filed for her own benefits. It only looks at her age when she files for survivor benefits.

 

[ivinsfan]

Well at the bottom of this page I see links to five different threads about SS survivors benefits, the best thing is two of them say "a quick question" about SS survivors benefits.

That's an oxymoron .....

 

[VanWinkle]

Well, nobody is really talking about getting discounted twice. She filed for her own at 62, so that was discounted from the amount she would have received had she waited until FRA. However, now we are talking about survivor which has a completely different set of rules. A survivor can claim as early as age 60 (as opposed to 62 for your own benefits). However, if the survivor claims prior to their FRA they get a discounted amount from what the deceased was drawing. If they are FRA or older, they get 100% of what the deceased was drawing (and of course, the survivor's own benefit stops at that point). The amount she can get as a survivor has nothing whatsoever to do with when she filed for her own benefits. It only looks at her age when she files for survivor benefits.

Thanks MissMolly for helping to clarify!!

Best to you,

VW

 

[RetireeRobert]

So, cyber888 says the relative in question who will be getting the survivor SS is right now age 72. So, I do not believe there will be any (more) SS age reductions to whatever the deceased husband was getting. I believe whatever that amount of his benefit was, that is what his survivor wife now age 72 will get each month.

I would also add, once again, as others have said, SS generally gets things right. I suspect the widow may have had some miscommunication or misunderstanding with the SS rep on the phone as to details and circumstances. Understandable for someone who was perhaps a widow for one day or maybe only a matter of hours when that conversation took place.

This case sounds pretty routine: a married couple, husband age 84 died, widow is age 72. I do believe SS will pay widow the correct SS benefit amount. And as I stated previously, within a month or two, SS will send her via Post Office a paper notice of benefit action. This notice will explain widow's appeal rights, and where and how to file an appeal, and it is pretty easy and straightforward to appeal, IF needed!

Long story short---I strongly believe widow will get the correct amount of monthly survivor SS benefit, no appeal needed.

Condolences to the widow.