Ex-spousal Social Security benefits

[aaronc879]

I am trying to help an Aunt who is living below the poverty line get all the benefits she is entitled to. She is currently getting SS based on her own record in the amount of $800-something per month and that is her only income. She was married for over 10 years before getting divorced. She is older and started collecting SS at age 62. Her ex-spouse is now 68 and collecting SS. Can she get his full amount instead of her own or how much could she get? She does not have a computer or smart phone. Is there a number she can call to apply for spousal benefits? I have no been able to find what i'm looking for online. Any help would be greatly appreciated. She is likely to lose her house in the next couple years if she doesn't get more income.

 

[MissMolly]

She would ordinarily be eligible for up to 50% of the ex's PIA, not his full amount. BUT, since she filed for her own at 62, the 50% will be reduced by 25/36 of 1% for each month she filed early. If she filed exactly when she turned 62, that means she is only entitled to 37.5% of his PIA (again, not his full amount). https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/spouse.html#:~:text=A spouse can choose to,age, up to 36 months.

 

[aaronc879]

She would ordinarily be eligible for up to 50% of the ex's PIA, not his full amount. BUT, since she filed for her own at 62, the 50% will be reduced by 25/36 of 1% for each month she filed early. If she filed exactly when she turned 62, that means she is only entitled to 37.5% of his PIA (again, not his full amount). https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/spouse.html#:~:text=A spouse can choose to,age, up to 36 months.

Thank you for the info. Unfortunately I don't think she can get an increased benefit. At least we know.

 

[cathy63]

Thank you for the info. Unfortunately I don't think she can get an increased benefit. At least we know.

Do you know how much the ex-spouse's benefit is? If he's getting at least $2133/mo then her benefit on his record is greater than her benefit on her own record. I think she should apply and let SSA make the determination. There is no penalty for doing so. They will always pay the max amount you're entitled to, so if hers is higher she'll just keep that.

The best thing to do is for her call the closest SS office and make an appointment to go there in person. If she can't do that, then call the national number at 800-772-1213, but be prepared to wait on hold. She needs to have his SS #, the marriage certificate and the divorce decree.

 

[aaronc879]

Do you know how much the ex-spouse's benefit is? If he's getting at least $2133/mo then her benefit on his record is greater than her benefit on her own record. I think she should apply and let SSA make the determination. There is no penalty for doing so. They will always pay the max amount you're entitled to, so if hers is higher she'll just keep that.

The best thing to do is for her call the closest SS office and make an appointment to go there in person. If she can't do that, then call the national number at 800-772-1213, but be prepared to wait on hold. She needs to have his SS #, the marriage certificate and the divorce decree.

I can't imagine his SS would be worth that much. He made maybe $50K for a decade at one job then less than that the rest of his life to the best of my knowledge.

 

[MissMolly]

Although it doesn't hurt to check, and I would recommend doing so, it's not based on what amount he is receiving, it's based on what amount his PIA is. Spousal benefits are always calculated on the PIA, not the amount currently being received. Also, has she remarried?

 

[aaronc879]

Although it doesn't hurt to check, and I would recommend doing so, it's not based on what amount he is receiving, it's based on what amount his PIA is. Spousal benefits are always calculated on the PIA, not the amount currently being received. Also, has she remarried?

She has not remarried. This was her second and final marriage. Her first husband never even got SS for himself due to working for cash and not reporting correctly so no help there. I did a quick Google search and it seems to have a PIA worth over $2000 you would have to average over $50K/yr for your whole 35 years which her Ex definitely did not earn. If she has the right documents still then I may encourage her to try but it is very unlikely she will end up with a higher check.

 

[pacergal]

It never hurts to check it out.
Very nice of you to help your Aunt out, aaron879.

 

[MissMolly]

She has not remarried. This was her second and final marriage. Her first husband never even got SS for himself due to working for cash and not reporting correctly so no help there. I did a quick Google search and it seems to have a PIA worth over $2000 you would have to average over $50K/yr for your whole 35 years which her Ex definitely did not earn. If she has the right documents still then I may encourage her to try but it is very unlikely she will end up with a higher check.

Well, for past years it's not actually based on just the amount they earned. There are indexing factors that are applied to the reported earnings which increases the amount. These indexing factors are the average wage level two years prior to the year of first eligibility. So you really can't be sure just based on the assumption he never made more than $50,000. If she can locate the documents then it wouldn't hurt to find out for sure what she would get.

 

[N02L84ER]

Well, for past years it's not actually based on just the amount they earned. There are indexing factors that are applied to the reported earnings which increases the amount. These indexing factors are the average wage level two years prior to the year of first eligibility. So you really can't be sure just based on the assumption he never made more than $50,000. If she can locate the documents then it wouldn't hurt to find out for sure what she would get.

+1
I averaged $33K/yr, did not work 35 years, had only 6 years that were between $50K and $70K, and my PIA is currently $2033.

 

[Exchme]

She would ordinarily be eligible for up to 50% of the ex's PIA, not his full amount. BUT, since she filed for her own at 62, the 50% will be reduced by 25/36 of 1% for each month she filed early. If she filed exactly when she turned 62, that means she is only entitled to 37.5% of his PIA (again, not his full amount). https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/spouse.html#:~:text=A spouse can choose to,age, up to 36 months.

The spousal benefit is the difference between her PIA and one half of spouse's (now ex's) PIA. If her PIA is greater than 1/2 ex's then there is no spousal benefit. The spousal benefit would not be reduced for early claiming since it was not claimed early (as we understand the situation). The benefit on her earning record was reduced since it was claimed early. Her total is the sum of the two.

Since she is an ex-spouse, she needn't have waited for the ex to claim (unlike married folks who have to wait).

Anyway, she absolutely needs to check with the SSA to see if she is entitled to more.

 

[MissMolly]

The spousal benefit is the difference between her PIA and one half of spouse's (now ex's) PIA. If her PIA is greater than 1/2 ex's then there is no spousal benefit. The spousal benefit would not be reduced for early claiming since it was not claimed early (as we understand the situation). The benefit on her earning record was reduced since it was claimed early. Her total is the sum of the two.

Since she is an ex-spouse, she needn't have waited for the ex to claim (unlike married folks who have to wait).

Anyway, she absolutely needs to check with the SSA to see if she is entitled to more.

The spousal benefits are indeed reduced if she filed prior to her full retirement age. Per SS: A spouse can choose to retire as early as age 62, but doing so may result in a benefit as little as 32.5 percent of the worker's primary insurance amount. A spousal benefit is reduced 25/36 of one percent for each month before normal retirement age, up to 36 months. If the number of months exceeds 36, then the benefit is further reduced 5/12 of one percent per month. You can read about it here: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/spouse.html#:~:text=The%20spousal%20benefit%20can%20be,will%20receive%20a%20reduced%20benefit. You may be thinking about survivor benefits which have their own set of rules.

 

[aaronc879]

The spousal benefits are indeed reduced if she filed prior to her full retirement age. Per SS: A spouse can choose to retire as early as age 62, but doing so may result in a benefit as little as 32.5 percent of the worker's primary insurance amount. A spousal benefit is reduced 25/36 of one percent for each month before normal retirement age, up to 36 months. If the number of months exceeds 36, then the benefit is further reduced 5/12 of one percent per month. You can read about it here: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/spouse.html#:~:text=The%20spousal%20benefit%20can%20be,will%20receive%20a%20reduced%20benefit. You may be thinking about survivor benefits which have their own set of rules.

Now i'm confused. Sounds like Exchme is saying there is a difference between a spouse and Ex-spouse while you seem to be assuming the rules are the same. I guess i'll just have to take my Aunt to the SS office and go from there. There doesn't seem to be a way to take to anyone on the phone, there is just an automated message. It says that you may not be able to be seen the same day you come in. You may have to come in and make an appointment to come back in again later. That's hours of time and more gas money than either me or my Aunt want to spend but seems the only choice.

 

[MissMolly]

Spousal benefits are spousal benefits regardless of the current marital status. Exchme was incorrect. I think they are confusing the rules of spousal vs survivor benefits.

 

[Texas Proud]

She can get a bump in benefits when he passes... it would not be spousal but survivor (not sure that is the correct term)...


My oldest sister is getting hers based on her DH when she was married and he passed... but will get a bump when her first DH passes... she is hoping he does not, she does not have any bad feeling towards him... but is aware of it...

 

[Exchme]

The spousal benefits are indeed reduced if she filed prior to her full retirement age. Per SS: A spouse can choose to retire as early as age 62, but doing so may result in a benefit as little as 32.5 percent of the worker's primary insurance amount. A spousal benefit is reduced 25/36 of one percent for each month before normal retirement age, up to 36 months. If the number of months exceeds 36, then the benefit is further reduced 5/12 of one percent per month. You can read about it here: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/spouse.html#:~:text=The%20spousal%20benefit%20can%20be,will%20receive%20a%20reduced%20benefit. You may be thinking about survivor benefits which have their own set of rules.

There are two standalone benefits involved - her own and spousal, they can be and often are claimed at different times and therefore can have different amounts of reduction (plus they are reduced using different formulas). For instance, if she is getting $800/mo on her own record only and claimed at exactly 62, her PIA would have been $800/0.7 = $1143, that reduction for early claiming is permanent.

If ex's PIA was greater twice her PIA, (so $2286), there would be a spousal benefit equal to 1/2 of the difference between his PIA and $2286. Let's pretend that ex's PIA was $2500, so she would have a spousal benefit of:
(2500-2286)/2 = $107. That benefit uses the reduction formula that you referenced for being claimed early.

The question is whether ex earned enough for there to be a spousal benefit and if so, was the spousal benefits actually claimed early. If you just call up social security and tell them you want to claim benefits, they will claim on both your own record and your spousal automatically unless you instruct them differently, so what you are thinking may be what happened, in which case, her current benefit is all she will ever get.

However, OP also said she was older than the ex and that she claimed at 62. Meaning ex would not have been eligible for benefits when she claimed, so (based on what we've been told) she could not have claimed a spousal benefit at that time. If she never did and now she is past her FRA, the spousal benefit would not have been claimed early, so that portion of her total benefit would not be reduced. You can see from my pretend example that unless ex was a high earner, the spousal benefit would be non-existent or very small, but if there is a spousal benefit and it was never claimed, there would be no reduction on it if spousal was not claimed early. But we are putting the story together from fragments, the Social Security folks are who she needs to talk to.

 

[Jenna]

One way to "get more income" is to lower expenses. Maybe you can check to see how she can do this. Discounted utilities, food stamps etc.

 

[aaronc879]

One way to "get more income" is to lower expenses. Maybe you can check to see how she can do this. Discounted utilities, food stamps etc.

She gets energy assistance and I just recently helped her get food stamps. Unfortunately she is a smoker and refuses to quit. That is an expensive habit. I won't give her any money as long as she is smoking cigarettes but I do still want to help her try to cut costs where she can.