Active Shooter Awareness Training at work.

[OldShooter]

I hear what you're saying, but sometimes it is "worth" the money to mitigate the "impression" or "feelings" of risk. It would be worth it to harden our schools so millions of parents would "feel" better about the safety of their kids - even though the risk is actually very small.

We simply can't deny people's feelings in all of this. But, YMMV.

Worth it? I have no idea. First, we don't know the cost either initially or ongoing. Second, given limited resources, spending that money would necessarily mean that some other good thing would not be done.

If you can tell me the tradeoff vs not doing the mitigation I can probably tell you whether I think it is "worth it." If you don't have that information, I don't see how you can make the judgment you're making.

 

[Gumby]

As a rule, basing any plan of action on subjective "feelings" will usually lead to failure and a great waste of money that may have been used to provide actual objective improvements. This is regardless of the subject.

 

[OldShooter]

As a rule, basing any plan of action on subjective "feelings" will usually lead to failure and a great waste of money that may have been used to provide actual objective improvements. This is regardless of the subject.

Yes, but like any project with no measurable outputs, the perpetrators can always declare victory!

 

[Koolau]

Worth it? I have no idea. First, we don't know the cost either initially or ongoing. Second, given limited resources, spending that money would necessarily mean that some other good thing would not be done.

If you can tell me the tradeoff vs not doing the mitigation I can probably tell you whether I think it is "worth it." If you don't have that information, I don't see how you can make the judgment you're making.

As a rule, basing any plan of action on subjective "feelings" will usually lead to failure and a great waste of money that may have been used to provide actual objective improvements. This is regardless of the subject.

I really don't disagree with either of you on this. It has to be looked at logically. BUT when it comes to people's kids, I think most parents would rather spend money to (theoretically) protect their kids than do the "other things" that will need to wait. Most folks who actually control the purse strings will loosen them when enough folks want something done.

As far as hardening schools - Keep in mind that you're trying to prevent the more or less amateur shooter. If he meets a locked steel door, anything else he does will alert authorities. Steel doors are relatively expensive, but half a dozen of them per school wouldn't break the bank. Cameras and perhaps metal detectors are a real cost - but not prohibitively so (IMHO - I haven't checked Amazon.)

Honestly, I worry much less about the cost of hardening a school than I would worry about the effect such hardening would have on students. I hate going through security at the airport. It gives me feelings of irrational fear. I wonder what the effect on kids would be.

BUT "simple" hardening (locked impenetrable doors) and maybe metal detectors with a security guard are not that expensive (again, my humble opinion.)

I have actually seen that local schools (near the Old Homestead) are hardening their entry ways. No idea on other security measures but that's the single best (probably least expensive) first step. YMMV and I'm willing to agree to disagree (or maybe just agree that I don't know the cost.)

 

[Chuckanut]

As mentioned: Hardened entries and screening would mean no teacher ever has to make such a decision. YMMV

The school I taught at was wide open. Anybody could enter it from a variety of locations. At one point we had some sort of community program headquartered in an unused classroom. This meant all sorts of unknown adults were coming and going from the school property at any time of the day.

But we did have a Gun Free Zone sign near the main entrance.

 

[Badger]

The school I taught at was wide open. Anybody could enter it from a variety of locations. At one point we had some sort of community program headquartered in an unused classroom. This meant all sorts of unknown adults were coming and going from the school property at any time of the day.

But we did have a Gun Free Zone sign near the main entrance.

I bet that sign will be as effective as "Duck and Cover".
Hardened entries is always a good idea. Unfortunately it wasn't done in at least 300+ schools in 2022 and at least half of schools in 2023 haven't got on board with the idea either. I would imagine that there are considerably more schools that haven't made the change as well and are wide open.
Most teachers I know from my 30+ years of teaching don't like the idea of arming school employees other than maybe security. However, there are a number of states that have some form of accommodation for this.
I don't like the idea either. I'm just glad that after 30+ years teaching I am retired and don't have to deal with it.

Cheers!

 

[Ronstar]

None of the teachers I know, and that is a fairly large number, wants to carry a firearm at school. Or, to be accurate, I have never heard a single one of them advocate for that.

If I polled the teachers I know, I suspect that the results would be the exact opposite.

 

[Car-Guy]

My DW and DD are both education majors. DD does carry, although not in school. DW is pro carry but doesn't teach any longer. But they are the only two teachers I know so my sample base is small and maybe bias based on my views on carry rights.

Odd, but I don't recall the specific topic (armed teachers) has ever coming up in any of our conversations.

 

[Chuckanut]

If I polled the teachers I know, I suspect that the results would be the exact opposite.

There are very few teachers I taught with whom I would want carrying a gun at school.

 

[OldShooter]

I think that in the end, this idea of having people in schools with little experience and one-time training will be evaluated as having been a really bad idea. Shooting a pistol accurately in low stress range situation is difficult enough, add a load of adrenaline anda dollop of emotional stress and good results will be elusive. You can even see this in stories of cop gunfights. Often there will have been X shots fired by the good guys and the perp was hit by one tenth of them. It is also apparently common for a cop to empty his gun and have no idea how many shots he fired.

If professionals who are comfortable with their weapons and who are receiving recurrent training have issues, what chance does a civilian good-guy-wth-a-gun have?

 

[Ronstar]

There are very few teachers I taught with whom I would want carrying a gun at school.

My post (quoting Gumby's post) was in reference to teachers I know who would want to carry a gun in school. They probably want to, but I'm not sure that I would want them to.

 

[braumeister]

Thanks for the interesting discussion.