Aging in place and landlord exit strategies

[Nords]

Nords , 56 is still young so you have plenty of time to figure out these problems . Congratulations on your daughter getting married !

I sure hope so.

And thank you! She chose well.

 

[devans0]

Thank you for this topic, Nords. It's one i've been slowly working on for the last two years. Flexibility of options has been my overriding choice, since I cannot know what our future will hold. I've been trying to take care of the age in place issues one at a time while we renovate our home. We bought a fixer-upper.

We have a sloping property with a walk in basement. One big expenditure will be adding an elevator from upper to lower basement. Even a few months of staying out of a nursing home should be cost effective. We have updated bathroom showers with making sure to add 3/4 plywood panels to studs. If grab bars are needed, they can be put in. All doors are getting widened to 36 in, with handles. Wheelchair accessablility throughout is a goal. Laminate floors for easy cleaning and care are getting put in. The carpet that came with the house was slippery. All outside work is being done to ready the house for years of maintenance free living.

Our neighborhood is walkable, which helps keeps us limber and fit, as do out present stairs. Grocery stores, malls are too far to walk easily, so deliveries and self or assisted driving is in our future plans.

I don't know if any of these will click ideas of things to think about, but you've reminded me of ramps to outside and garage to plan for.

 

[Scuba]

DH and I bought an oceanfront condo (3BR, 2BA) when we were in our early 40's. Have used it as both a primary residence and a rental at various times. Remodeled it a couple of years ago as we now view it as our "forever home."

It has stunning views, is walking or biking distance to dozens of restaurants and many other services (hospital, urgent care, bank, eye doctor, etc.), and is all one level. Building has elevators and public transportation is right outside our front door. It's a secured building so we are comfortable "locking and leaving" for long trips.

YMMV but for us, it is the perfect "aging in place" home, as well as a home we really enjoy now.

 

[Teacher Terry]

5 years ago we bought a single story foreclosure in town. When we remodeled we did things so that if one of us has an issue we can age in place. I would either sell the rental or hire a property management company.

 

[jimnjana]

Nords, If you come to the conclusion that you want to sell your rental, consider 1031 exchange into a condo hotel. We didn't have the capital gain to bother with it when we sold our vacation rental. But we did pick up another vacation rental in DWs home town. Now when we visit her family, we stay there. Its a unit in a condo hotel. We have no direct landlord responsibilities.

 

[kcowan]

Nords
It is nice to hear from you again. I think you are going through the landlording process right now and it will soon be over! Then you can relax until the current tenant chooses to move! I would consider talking to the tenants once they are settled about a rent to own process.

Meanwhile there is always the Stairlift to get you and yours up to the bathroom and bedroom as needed. No need to get more complicated than necessary! And as you note, uber- like delivery will make it easier.

I believe in aging in place. We have been in our penthouse for 20 years and our snowbird place for 10 years. We understand about anchors. We are also in our 70s and just starting to slow down.

 

[Nords]

Thank you for this topic, Nords. It's one i've been slowly working on for the last two years. Flexibility of options has been my overriding choice, since I cannot know what our future will hold.

5 years ago we bought a single story foreclosure in town. When we remodeled we did things so that if one of us has an issue we can age in place. I would either sell the rental or hire a property management company.

I think we've essentially burdened ourselves with double the flexibility when just one will do.

This thread has helped me figure out a few places where we've had locked-in thinking on walkable neighborhoods and other logistics issues that have probably already been overcome by tech. Good topics for further discussion when the tenant turnover is behind us.

Nords, If you come to the conclusion that you want to sell your rental, consider 1031 exchange into a condo hotel. We didn't have the capital gain to bother with it when we sold our vacation rental. But we did pick up another vacation rental in DWs home town. Now when we visit her family, we stay there. Its a unit in a condo hotel. We have no direct landlord responsibilities.

I've looked at these "solutions" before. We'll figure out the right way to handle the rental, but I've always felt that a 1031 also exchanges one set of ownership hassles for a different set of ownership hassles while only delaying the inevitable for probate. Sometimes they're better, sometimes not.

I'm not averse to paying capital gains (and depreciation recapture, and federal/state AMT) to get rid of a hassle... after we take every single deduction and allowance that we're entitled to, of course. And a property manager might go quite a ways toward restoring domestic harmony.

Nords
It is nice to hear from you again. I think you are going through the landlording process right now and it will soon be over! Then you can relax until the current tenant chooses to move! I would consider talking to the tenants once they are settled about a rent to own process.

I believe in aging in place. We have been in our penthouse for 20 years and our snowbird place for 10 years. We understand about anchors. We are also in our 70s and just starting to slow down.

Thanks, Keith! Marge has quite a pile of tools & supplies staged in the garage now, and we have a big crowd of paid & volunteer labor ready to sweep in on Saturday as soon as the tenants clear the driveway. It's going ominously well, and the only problems to arise have already been predicted.

Good point on rent to own-- I'm a big fan of the numbers behind those leases. (Should it come to that, we might even be tempted to take back paper to facilitate the purchase.) Central Oahu is a popular market for military renters, though, and we're likely to get an active-duty family on 2-3 year orders. It makes sense to advertise on the military websites before we go out to Zillow or Trulia. But we could end up with a local family who's seeking a better commute.

You're right, I'm saving the discussions until after the tenants are settled in. Maybe even until we're on our next slow travel. By that time we might both agree on what we want to do.

 

[Katsmeow]

One thing I know is that things change. We bought our current house about 5 years ago when I was 58 and thought we would stay here forever. But, I've been watching how things go for my mom (in her 90s now and still living alone). And, the big issue for her now is not wanting to drive much (she does local driving). Even when it is close enough for her to drive she gets tired really easily (unlike you she doesn't have delivery services available where she lives even though she lives in a large city).

Anyway, I recognized that while our current house is fine...we are 20 minutes away from pretty much anything (one convenience store about 12 minutes away). Right now, the driving is OK for us. We live on an acre in a beautiful neighborhood and we lives watching the deer in the subdivision and the bunny hopping across our lawn. But, there will come a time when we don't want to drive 20 minutes to everywhere we go...

The debate DH and I have is when to switch houses. We know it will be eventually. Do we wait another 10 or 15 years (DH is almost 70) and do it then when we have to? Or is it better to make the leap sooner (maybe 2 or 3 years from now)? It is hard to decide. I probably lean more to the move sooner and left to his own, DH is probably more move later if necessary. Of course, DH says that me being happy is really important to him so he is fine to move sooner...

In your case, it doesn't sound like you really want to live in the rental house. You sound unenthusiastic about it. That said, you couldn't pay me to live in a house with a 2nd floor master. Our current house is one story and it is so much better for my knees not to have to climb stairs...

So, if I was you I wouldn't want to age in either of your houses. So, I would sell the rental pretty much now. I would then start looking for an age in place home. When you find it, I would buy it. You would have plenty of time without stress to do it. You would know it when you found it.

 

[W2R]

[...]there will come a time when we don't want to drive 20 minutes to everywhere we go...

The debate DH and I have is when to switch houses. We know it will be eventually. Do we wait another 10 or 15 years (DH is almost 70) and do it then when we have to? Or is it better to make the leap sooner (maybe 2 or 3 years from now)? It is hard to decide. I probably lean more to the move sooner and left to his own, DH is probably more move later if necessary. Of course, DH says that me being happy is really important to him so he is fine to move sooner...

Moving sooner sounds like the wisest option to me, and given the age of your DH, I would have the movers do as much as possible. I was shocked at how difficult it was for me to move at age 67, even though I had been lifting weights and felt I was in very good shape. I had not two or three, but dozens of minor (but very painful) and not so minor injuries, fell numerous times, and so on, during the move. I feel like it even affected my long term health in some respects.

In your case, it doesn't sound like you really want to live in the rental house. You sound unenthusiastic about it. That said, you couldn't pay me to live in a house with a 2nd floor master. Our current house is one story and it is so much better for my knees not to have to climb stairs...

Same here, although Nords seems to want to stay where he is. If/when his knees go, I assume he could always just get a stair lift and depend on that. Not my cup of tea, but he's only in his 50's right now and he has lots of time to decide what he wants to do about these things.

 

[Katsmeow]

Same here, although Nords seems to want to stay where he is. If/when his knees go, I assume he could always just get a stair lift and depend on that. Not my cup of tea, but he's only in his 50's right now and he has lots of time to decide what he wants to do about these things.

It sounds like he and his wife have a little different ideas about what to do long-term. I understand that as DH and I had different ideas as well. Where I think we are now is that we will eventually look for a house that both of us love equally well in a location that we love equally well. Perhaps Nords and his wife could find a place like that. But, it might take awhile to do that, maybe years. So staying where they are in the meantime seems realistic.

 

[meierlde]

Thank you for this topic, Nords. It's one i've been slowly working on for the last two years. Flexibility of options has been my overriding choice, since I cannot know what our future will hold. I've been trying to take care of the age in place issues one at a time while we renovate our home. We bought a fixer-upper.

We have a sloping property with a walk in basement. One big expenditure will be adding an elevator from upper to lower basement. Even a few months of staying out of a nursing home should be cost effective. We have updated bathroom showers with making sure to add 3/4 plywood panels to studs. If grab bars are needed, they can be put in. All doors are getting widened to 36 in, with handles. Wheelchair accessablility throughout is a goal. Laminate floors for easy cleaning and care are getting put in. The carpet that came with the house was slippery. All outside work is being done to ready the house for years of maintenance free living.

Our neighborhood is walkable, which helps keeps us limber and fit, as do out present stairs. Grocery stores, malls are too far to walk easily, so deliveries and self or assisted driving is in our future plans.

I don't know if any of these will click ideas of things to think about, but you've reminded me of ramps to outside and garage to plan for.

Are the stairs straight between the up and down stairs? If so you could put in a stair elevator which is just a track bolted onto the steps and a chair to go up and down on. No structural modification needed.

 

[Nords]

It sounds like he and his wife have a little different ideas about what to do long-term. I understand that as DH and I had different ideas as well. Where I think we are now is that we will eventually look for a house that both of us love equally well in a location that we love equally well. Perhaps Nords and his wife could find a place like that. But, it might take awhile to do that, maybe years. So staying where they are in the meantime seems realistic.

It's the views.

We're on a bluff that overlooks the land sloping off to the south and southeast. This is our backyard looking east across Kipapa Gulch to the Ko'olau mountains. To the south we can see all the way down Kipapa Gulch to the Ewa plain and Pearl Harbor's western loch. We can see enough of the ocean to watch cruise ships heading into Honolulu Harbor. To the west, we have the Waianae mountains.

Our yard attracts flocks of birds and occasionally a mongoose. I really enjoy sitting on the back lanai (or in the familyroom) tapping on a keyboard while listening to the wildlife. I can even tell from the outraged mockingbird calls whether an egret or a mongoose has entered "their" back yard territory.

I'm more interested in adapting this place to my aging body than I am in relocating or downsizing.

Our rental property has views of the neighbor's wall and our fences. There's still some wildlife but the view is greatly restricted.

 

[RunningBum]

There are few things as relaxing as waking up to a beautiful view every day. I know my place won't be good for aging because of a pretty remote location, but I should have many years before I have to worry about that, as do you. I'm not giving up my view earlier than I have to, at least not many years earlier. My thought is that when I start thinking about having to move before my health makes a move more difficult, I'll start purging things so when the move comes it'll be a little easier.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

Pay for someone to manage the rental and/or do the maintenance jobs and/or sell the rental. You have the money.

For age in place, when you need living assistance, there will probably be intelligent assistant robots.

I think you're set.

If you play real estate junkie in the Seattle area, let me know what you find!

 

[Nords]

Pay for someone to manage the rental and/or do the maintenance jobs and/or sell the rental. You have the money.

For age in place, when you need living assistance, there will probably be intelligent assistant robots.

I think you're set.

If you play real estate junkie in the Seattle area, let me know what you find!

We're in Day #12 of the rehab, and it's going surprisingly well, yet I think the novelty is starting to wear thin for both of us. We'll have a conversation about property managers after the next set of tenants hand over their security deposit.

I'm cheering for the robots too!

I've seen nice homes in Issaquah and North Bend, but I hear they have real winter up there. Especially compared to what you and I call "winter" in our ZIP codes...

 

[Nords]

Update: the rehab is finished, we have tenants, and my spouse has taken over the landlording.

We finished a 68-day rehab for just over $68K. The new tenants moved in on 18 October with a one-year lease. They're a local family (adults with two dogs, no kids) and their application was good enough. Their check cleared, they seem to be taking over the utility bills, and we'll know in a couple days whether they've figured out how to electronically deposit the rent.

On 21 October we left Oahu for 10 days at MilBlogging, FinCon, and my spouse's 34th "Ladies of '83" college reunion (with 35 of her 55 women classmates). If tenants hadn't moved in before we flew then we were ready to wait until November to restart the process, but it was still a marathon with a last-minute sprint across the finish line. We didn't realize how exhausted we both were until we boarded the plane and sat down. It was another indicator that possibly, just maybe, we might have tackled more than we really should. Again.

While we were on the Mainland, the tenants seemed to settle in without any questions or problems. (As far as we can tell.) We had no calls, texts, or e-mails. Our home's garage is still full of all the junk & tools that we hauled out of the rental, and we have a few more hours of sorting & stowing. Unless something comes up we'll visit the rental in late November to catch up on the yardwork and see whether they have any questions.

As you might expect after 31 years of marriage, we figured out how we want to handle the landlording from now on. However if you're a Navy nuke who's sat through an incident critique on the mess decks, then you know that the discussion was extremely thorough... and a little intense.

During those weeks in the rental (at all hours of the day & night) we realized that the neighborhood is noisier than we remembered. (Most of it is street traffic-- and leaf blowers at the shopping center.) The rental's yard is less maintenance than our home but the rental's views are a lot worse. Both homes are now in the same high-quality material condition and should need the same amount of chores & maintenance. Personally, I don't care about the rental property's nearby shopping center or the park across the street. I can Uber to the equivalent places at our current home or walk/cycle a mile each way. I'm definitely not interested in living in our rental and my spouse's vision has lost a little of its luster. It's a very nice property, but perhaps executing the rental's rehab has been more fulfilling than actually living in it.

We revisited the discussion around Day #50 of the rehab. That might have been my poor timing but it grew out of my frustration with the plumbers. (They grudgingly showed up on Day #52 and finished their job.) Once the five sinks were done we were able to slog through everything else in time.

During our discussion I mentioned that the rehab was just as necessary for selling the house as for renting it. I said that I wanted to finish my life in our home (or perhaps in a care facility), and I didn't ever want to move into our rental. She revealed that if I died in our home then she didn't want to live among those memories and would move into the rental. It was the first time she'd mentioned that issue, and even she seemed a little surprised at her realization.

I don't feel that way about losing her. I pointed out that if she died first-- unlikely-- then I'd still keep on living in our home among our memories. She said that she already had too many memories of our pet bunny dying in our home and she didn't want to repeat the experience with me.

I'm not sure how I feel about being compared to our pet bunny. At least I scored higher (because I'm potty trained), although the score might have been closer than I'd like. Should I be concerned that his gravesite is in our side yard under the pikake bush?

Maybe I should plan to die in the surf lineup.

I pointed out to my spouse that her feelings still meant I'd have a lifetime of landlording with no parole for good behavior. 50 years. Nearly 600 rent checks.

Compromise: we decided that she'd take over. She's the landlord now and I'm no longer on duty. (Woo-hoo!) She finished the tenant applications and she signed the lease. It's her phone number, her e-mail address, and her checking account. She handled the tenant turnover. (I haven't even met them.) I'll still track the expenses (for the tax returns) and help with the yardwork but she'll take care of all the rest. If something breaks then (like our house) I have the option of doing the repair or punting for a handyman.

This just accelerates our family turnover plan. We've previously agreed that she's going to take over our financial management in 2022 (when her Reserve pension starts), and our daughter is going to be the contingency trustee on our revocable living trust.

It's all subject to re-negotiation, but now we both have what we want. Maybe she'll keep landlording for the rest of my life, or maybe she'll choose to delegate to a property manager. If she eventually decides that she's had enough landlording (or reconciles living in our home among our memories) then we can sell the rental. I could wait on selling for a couple of decades-- just in case our daughter surprises us with an interest in taking over the place-- but that's a remote fantasy. Our daughter & son-in-law are going to make their own way in the world.

$68K is a lot for a rental rehab, yet part of that is replacing the 38-year-old kitchen and both bathrooms. (We kept most of the appliances and the bathtubs.) We've finally cleaned up every little problem that we've found during our 28 years of ownership. The rest of the house is pet-friendly and optimized for aging in place. I hope we don't have to repeat this for at least another 28 years.

Here are two before-after photos. For you HGTV fans, the rest of the images are at this public Facebook album. You can view it even if you don't have a FB account:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...073741849.100001570757832&type=1&l=d18be45f3f

 

[REWahoo]

A modern version of Tom Sawyer and whitewashing the fence. Nicely done!

 

[audreyh1]

Wow - what a project! I really enjoyed the Facebook album. Congrats! Looks fantastic.

 

[RunningBum]

I'm very impressed how you two had very frank and productive discussions and came to a solution you can both live with, rather easily it seems.

 

[davismills]

Nice job on the reno! I'm exhausted just looking at the FB pics.

 

[Van-Guard23]

Wow! Quite a project, Nords! At our realtor’s suggestion, my wife and I are looking to replace our remaining, and perfectly functional, 10-year old white appliances with stainless steel (and replacing our 10-year old water heater) in preparation for selling the house hopefully next spring and I am dreading that “ordeal” already. Can’t imagine going through a 68K reno.

 

[kcowan]

We have gone through kitchen/bathrooms reno, new floors (wood and tile) and patio, and new fixtures and appliances in the 20 years we have lived here.

While it seems to be a tremendous mountain to climb, it always gets done. And afterwards we are so satisfied. Enjoy the glow of a job well-done, Nords.

 

[W2R]

Congratulations, Nords! I am glad that you and your DW have come to an understanding about the rental, that is completely satisfactory to both. I think that any of us who have ever been married can appreciate what a fulfilling accomplishment it is to work out a difficult solution like that and move on with one mind about it.

As for renovations - - somehow, in 69 years of life, I have never done any sort of big renovation on a house, so I am very impressed.

That said, I did have major landscaping work done, regrading of the lot, new topsoil, and a new lawn sodded, last year. The results of planning that project myself, finding the right people to do it, watching it happen before my eyes, and finally living with the yard I always wanted, have all been very rewarding.

 

[JoeWras]

Really nice. This is kind of what I want to do too. Get rid of the island (or peninsula) and open up a wall with a bar counter. Dump the nook.

Thanks for the inspiration.

 

[omni550]

Wow...quite the speedy redo. Looks great! Loved the many, detailed photos and your accompanying commentary.

Kudos to you, Marge, and the contractors!

omni