RetiredAndLovingIt
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Very interesting, and we're not that terribly far from each other.
I may check out the area next time I'm over that way.
Any other long-term CA residents reconsidering their “forever home”?
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I may check out the area next time I'm over that way.
EastWest Gal
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I was a fifth generation Californian, grew up and lived in the Bay Area, educated at UC Berkeley, UCLA, and UCSF. I still own property there. I left due to crappy schools in 1998. If I didn't have a child that needed language services then, perhaps I would have stayed, but work/life balance wasn't there for me and my husband found few opportunities as well.
My now grown son still struggles with his learning disability, and I'm grateful for the support we received in our chosen school district here in PA, the smaller class size, and his chance to have successful experiences here.
The weather there is superb, but I was too busy working to experience it. Also finding cultural activities was very difficult. Here I have a paid off house with a pool, spa, and home theater, a ski resort I can see from my front yard, and loads of cultural activities and connections I never would have found in Silicon Valley.
Understand that due to the housing expense there that once you leave, coming back is nearly impossible.
My now grown son still struggles with his learning disability, and I'm grateful for the support we received in our chosen school district here in PA, the smaller class size, and his chance to have successful experiences here.
The weather there is superb, but I was too busy working to experience it. Also finding cultural activities was very difficult. Here I have a paid off house with a pool, spa, and home theater, a ski resort I can see from my front yard, and loads of cultural activities and connections I never would have found in Silicon Valley.
Understand that due to the housing expense there that once you leave, coming back is nearly impossible.
ProspectiveBum
Full time employment: Posting here.
Another vote here for "never leaving". We love the weather, our neighborhood, the proximity to the beach and great hiking, and the laid-back SoCal vibe. It ain't perfect, but it's as close to perfect for us as we've found. I do worry that our kids (currently 18 & 16) won't be able to afford to live here, and will move to another state. Even then, I expect that we'll stay put.
Living in CA reminds me of the old joke about divorce*: "Why is it so expensive? Because it's WORTH it!" Of course, as a wise man often says, YMMV.
*Happily married for 27 years and counting.
Living in CA reminds me of the old joke about divorce*: "Why is it so expensive? Because it's WORTH it!" Of course, as a wise man often says, YMMV.
*Happily married for 27 years and counting.
I'm a native of San Diego.
I'm not unhappy when people choose to leave CA... Leaves it less crowded for the rest of us.
Paid for house with reduced property taxes because of prop 13. So COL is not that much more than other people.
I walk the dog on the beach every morning. Can't do that in the non-coastal states.
Are there things I'd change, yep... but not enough to move to places with humidity or snow, or both. I've found my happy place.
FWIW - I'm not doing this blindly - I've travelled extensively and have lived in WA state, PA, and GA... so I have comparison data points.
But if you want to move elsewhere... feel free... Just don't make me leave.
I'm not unhappy when people choose to leave CA... Leaves it less crowded for the rest of us.
Paid for house with reduced property taxes because of prop 13. So COL is not that much more than other people.
I walk the dog on the beach every morning. Can't do that in the non-coastal states.
Are there things I'd change, yep... but not enough to move to places with humidity or snow, or both. I've found my happy place.
FWIW - I'm not doing this blindly - I've travelled extensively and have lived in WA state, PA, and GA... so I have comparison data points.
But if you want to move elsewhere... feel free... Just don't make me leave.
When I think of Santa Clarita I think of vampire realtors. LOL
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5580540/
(I have friends that live in Santa Clarita - nice place but too hot in the summer.)
Don't get me started on the homeless
I live in a boring middle-class suburban community in Orange County, and I've noticed that the homeless problem has gotten a lot worse over the last decade. A decade ago I didn't see any in the community, but now they are everywhere.
A few years ago a homeless guy randomly walked onto the campus of my kids' elementary school. He clearly had some mental issues. The school had to be locked down and cops called to remove him.
A couple of years ago, the teenage daughter of a friend of mine walked home from school and a homeless guy followed her. She went upstairs to shower, leaving the back screen open, and the homeless guy enter the house that way and went upstairs. The mom happened to come home right then and screamed when she saw him. She chased him out with a broom. It turned out that the homeless guy had arrived on a bus from out of town to partake in free meals offered by a church in the neighborhood. After the meal he had nothing better to do, so wandered in the neighborhood. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. God knows what would have happened if the mom didn't come home in time. Many of the neighbors were furious and asked the church stop serving free meals because they were attracting homeless people from out of town to the area, but the church wouldn't listen.
I've run into the homeless smoking pot and getting high in a nature preserve where I ride mountain bikes. The nature preserve is full of trees and grass, and it doesn't take much for the whole thing to go up in flames if conditions are right. I called the park rangers and they said they couldn't do anything.
I've seen homeless people standing in the middle of the street raving and ranting when I do my weekly run to Costco. Just last week when I came home from a bike ride, I saw a guy naked except for a pair of boxers, walking down the street clearly whacked out of his mind on drugs.
So, to answer OP's question, I've thought about moving, not only because of the homeless problem, but because of increasing crime---in the last couple of years, I've had my car parked on the driveway broken into, and mails stolen from my mailbox. These never happened before.
DW and I have talked about moving to a big state in the south where we own a lot of land, or even to New Zealand, which I've visited many times and know well. I really love living in my community---lots of great trails to ride and hike, homes are on big lots so there's a rustic, park-like feel with lots of green space, and of course SoCal weather is perfect all year round. But the homeless and the crimes are getting seemingly worse by the day.
Right now, we're just putting up with it because the good still outweighs the bad, but the scale is tipping inexorably the other way. We'll definitely stick it out for a few more years until our kids go to college. After that we'll re-assess.
One thing is for sure---if the state ever imposes a wealth tax, as it has considered the past several years, we'll be gone in a heartbeat.
I live in a boring middle-class suburban community in Orange County, and I've noticed that the homeless problem has gotten a lot worse over the last decade. A decade ago I didn't see any in the community, but now they are everywhere.
A few years ago a homeless guy randomly walked onto the campus of my kids' elementary school. He clearly had some mental issues. The school had to be locked down and cops called to remove him.
A couple of years ago, the teenage daughter of a friend of mine walked home from school and a homeless guy followed her. She went upstairs to shower, leaving the back screen open, and the homeless guy enter the house that way and went upstairs. The mom happened to come home right then and screamed when she saw him. She chased him out with a broom. It turned out that the homeless guy had arrived on a bus from out of town to partake in free meals offered by a church in the neighborhood. After the meal he had nothing better to do, so wandered in the neighborhood. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished. God knows what would have happened if the mom didn't come home in time. Many of the neighbors were furious and asked the church stop serving free meals because they were attracting homeless people from out of town to the area, but the church wouldn't listen.
I've run into the homeless smoking pot and getting high in a nature preserve where I ride mountain bikes. The nature preserve is full of trees and grass, and it doesn't take much for the whole thing to go up in flames if conditions are right. I called the park rangers and they said they couldn't do anything.
I've seen homeless people standing in the middle of the street raving and ranting when I do my weekly run to Costco. Just last week when I came home from a bike ride, I saw a guy naked except for a pair of boxers, walking down the street clearly whacked out of his mind on drugs.
So, to answer OP's question, I've thought about moving, not only because of the homeless problem, but because of increasing crime---in the last couple of years, I've had my car parked on the driveway broken into, and mails stolen from my mailbox. These never happened before.
DW and I have talked about moving to a big state in the south where we own a lot of land, or even to New Zealand, which I've visited many times and know well. I really love living in my community---lots of great trails to ride and hike, homes are on big lots so there's a rustic, park-like feel with lots of green space, and of course SoCal weather is perfect all year round. But the homeless and the crimes are getting seemingly worse by the day.
Right now, we're just putting up with it because the good still outweighs the bad, but the scale is tipping inexorably the other way. We'll definitely stick it out for a few more years until our kids go to college. After that we'll re-assess.
One thing is for sure---if the state ever imposes a wealth tax, as it has considered the past several years, we'll be gone in a heartbeat.
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ElizabethT
Full time employment: Posting here.
Nope, not questioning our status as lifelong CA residents whatsoever, even as we've spent a good two years traveling and exploring much of the remaining US by RV since FIRE.
I'm at the beach 6 days out of 7, and can see the ocean from my home on the rare days I don't get there. People here at least, in S OC, seem exceedingly appreciative to live in such a beautiful climate and area. I kayak, paddleboard, sail, bike, hike, golf, run, and play pickle ball year round save the rare rainy day, though even then walking is possible with some rain wear.
We have more festivals and celebrations than I have energy to attend. Making friends is easy in that a lot of well heeled retirees have settled here. Fine arts abound, as do live musical concerts and terrific restaurants, wineries and breweries. Beautiful wilderness areas to hike in daily as OC, like a good number of other CA Counties, has preserved much public land for public usage.
Seriously, what is a few more dollars in my bank account in exchange for much of the above year round lifestyle?
Perhaps I'd feel different if I didn't live at the coast. But I do, and I count myself insanely fortunate to be able to do so.
I am not alone in considering where we live to be paradise. I hear it said on an almost daily basis around here.
I'm at the beach 6 days out of 7, and can see the ocean from my home on the rare days I don't get there. People here at least, in S OC, seem exceedingly appreciative to live in such a beautiful climate and area. I kayak, paddleboard, sail, bike, hike, golf, run, and play pickle ball year round save the rare rainy day, though even then walking is possible with some rain wear.
We have more festivals and celebrations than I have energy to attend. Making friends is easy in that a lot of well heeled retirees have settled here. Fine arts abound, as do live musical concerts and terrific restaurants, wineries and breweries. Beautiful wilderness areas to hike in daily as OC, like a good number of other CA Counties, has preserved much public land for public usage.
Seriously, what is a few more dollars in my bank account in exchange for much of the above year round lifestyle?
Perhaps I'd feel different if I didn't live at the coast. But I do, and I count myself insanely fortunate to be able to do so.
I am not alone in considering where we live to be paradise. I hear it said on an almost daily basis around here.
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ElizabethT
Full time employment: Posting here.
And please, when you leave California, take people with you, as many as possible -
You and Rodi may appreciate that the flow of outward citizens are being replaced by fewer but wealthier citizens in the aggregate. This is easily verifiable with a quick internet search.
Fewer, but wealthier, folk in California? Yep, I'm also OK with that.
daylatedollarshort
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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California is a huge state, bigger in land mass and more people than many countries, so everyone's experience is bound to be different. Here is a list of cities in California ranked by safety. There is likely to be a big difference in your experiences in crime depending where you live - California Crime Index City Rank.
One of our criteria in choosing where to live was good hiking and scenery. When we did our research, California came out on top for number of state and national parks: https://www.playgroundequipment.com/us-states-ranked-by-state-and-national-park-coverage/. Many of the regional park systems here are also extensive with great scenery and trails. Another was arts and culture. In this list, the Bay Area has spots #2 and #15 for large cities, https://culturaldata.org/pages/arts-vibrancy-index-2019.
We also wanted nice weather - https://kellegous.com/j/2014/02/03/pleasant-places/.
Another draw for us was jobs, which we no longer have, but all the other criteria keeps us here in the Bay Area, even now being retired.
One of our criteria in choosing where to live was good hiking and scenery. When we did our research, California came out on top for number of state and national parks: https://www.playgroundequipment.com/us-states-ranked-by-state-and-national-park-coverage/. Many of the regional park systems here are also extensive with great scenery and trails. Another was arts and culture. In this list, the Bay Area has spots #2 and #15 for large cities, https://culturaldata.org/pages/arts-vibrancy-index-2019.
We also wanted nice weather - https://kellegous.com/j/2014/02/03/pleasant-places/.
Another draw for us was jobs, which we no longer have, but all the other criteria keeps us here in the Bay Area, even now being retired.
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Freedom56
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Well you are passing on one of the happiest cities in America.
Overall, the top 10 happiest cities are also home to high marriage rates. In all but one – Arlington, Virginia – married residents make up the majority of the population.
Here are the 10 places where Americans are happiest, according to SmartAsset’s findings:
1- Sunnyvale, California
2- Arlington, Virginia
3- Bellevue, Washington
4- Fremont, California
5- Frisco, Texas
6- Plano, Texas
7- Roseville, California
8- San Jose, California
9- Santa Clarita, California
10- Irvine, California
https://thehill.com/homenews/nexsta...here-the-happiest-americans-live-study-finds/
Interesting that the 6 of the top 10 cities are in California.
Dash man
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Wealthier folks mostly want someone else to do the manual labor for them. They do need a place to live. Might cause a little problem for some folks.
daylatedollarshort
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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Income taxes here are also pretty reasonable for us. The state doesn't tax Social Security. On Kiplingers' list for tax friendly states for middle class households, California made #9. The much talked about 13.3% state income tax only kicks in at taxable income over $1M, https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/most-tax-friendly-states-for-middle-class-families.
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ElizabethT
Full time employment: Posting here.
The people leaving are not the ones doing the manual labor you're referring to.
Music Lover
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Anyone that is able to find a good place in California could have also found a good place in Florida, there are plenty of them.
W2R
Moderator Emeritus
I lived in the SF Bay area from 1968-1973, and in the San Diego area from 1977-1984.
I was one of those oddballs that didn't like living there at all. I don't mean to insult the Californians here.... but.... er.... of all the many (8?) states I have lived in for more than a year, for me, well, Cali was by far my least favorite. I didn't even like the weather; I have never felt colder than I did in the SF area, and the SD area was way too dry for me and for my skin. Weather wasn't my only objection to living in Calif, there were many and for me it just wasn't a good match. So, I was pretty happy when my ex was transferred out of there in 1984. I haven't set foot in California since.
See that's something that I feel a lot of people just don't "get"... no matter where you are, there will be some people that love it and some that hate it. It's just the way of the world. I love living in Louisiana but I know that many (most?) Americans would not put Louisiana at the top of their list. Great! More space for those of us here who love this state.
Anyway, my point is that when someone begins to think of moving to a different state, I think it's time to go on vacations to that state driving your car, so that you can explore it in depth and get familiar with it. No other state is going to be just like California, so keep an open mind about the differences and enjoy the adventure of it! You might find another state that you love just as much or possibly even more. It really can happen.
I was one of those oddballs that didn't like living there at all. I don't mean to insult the Californians here.... but.... er.... of all the many (8?) states I have lived in for more than a year, for me, well, Cali was by far my least favorite. I didn't even like the weather; I have never felt colder than I did in the SF area, and the SD area was way too dry for me and for my skin. Weather wasn't my only objection to living in Calif, there were many and for me it just wasn't a good match. So, I was pretty happy when my ex was transferred out of there in 1984. I haven't set foot in California since.
See that's something that I feel a lot of people just don't "get"... no matter where you are, there will be some people that love it and some that hate it. It's just the way of the world. I love living in Louisiana but I know that many (most?) Americans would not put Louisiana at the top of their list. Great! More space for those of us here who love this state.
Anyway, my point is that when someone begins to think of moving to a different state, I think it's time to go on vacations to that state driving your car, so that you can explore it in depth and get familiar with it. No other state is going to be just like California, so keep an open mind about the differences and enjoy the adventure of it! You might find another state that you love just as much or possibly even more. It really can happen.
Yep, we have the same issue. Only thing keeping us here now is our adults kids. As bad as Newsom and California are now, it's not worth moving a thousand miles away from our kids because of it.
We're up in the Bay Area with a paid off house so it's not a financial issue for us. As a matter of fact, we're half thinking of buying a vacation home in La Quinta right next to you! Only thing holding us back is the constant long drive and uncertain home prices down there. Just waiting for it to hit rock bottom before we do anything.
As many of us life long California residents already know, the quality of life here has sunk to an all time low. I almost wish my kids had gotten jobs out of state so they'd have a better future.
We're up in the Bay Area with a paid off house so it's not a financial issue for us. As a matter of fact, we're half thinking of buying a vacation home in La Quinta right next to you! Only thing holding us back is the constant long drive and uncertain home prices down there. Just waiting for it to hit rock bottom before we do anything.
As many of us life long California residents already know, the quality of life here has sunk to an all time low. I almost wish my kids had gotten jobs out of state so they'd have a better future.
Our kid did that starting in 2015. Found a job in the Bay Area that asked for volunteers to travel to Austin and the Phoenix area, which they did. By the time the summer of 2016 rolled around, we were told they were moving to Austin. It turned out to be a great decision for them.
They transferred to a second company three years ago, assigned as a manager for a tech company, and just bought a nearly 2,600 sq ft house in the suburbs late 2021 at age 28. None of that happens in the Bay Area.
After the move, the plans DW and I had to move from the Bay Area to the CA Central Coast in retirement came crashing down. In truth, those plans were at risk in 2015/16 based on our vacation trips there. A good number of local stores and restaurants closed without comparable replacements. Retail was limited, as were medical services (they were available; just not a lot of providers to choose from). Plus the reality of the tourist season hit us when we went one time in July rather than our usual fall trips there. So, we moved to Texas in late 2018.
I missed the weather in Silicon Valley, but not the air or water quality there, nor the traffic congestion. I miss a few friends and family members still in California, but not as much as we would miss our kid. We already have more friends in the neighborhood we live in now that we ever did in the 23+ years in our last house.
And please, when you leave California, take people with you, as many as possible -
Because of DW's relative high salary and our investment income, even with me being retired, we still rank among the top 5% in terms of HHI in California. DW's job is not tied to CA, and we can manage our investments from anywhere.
So, if we were to leave, that's one less high-income HH paying for all the social programs that the state is handing out. In other words, we're exactly the kind of taxpayers that CA needs to attract and retain. We are happy to stay here and pay whatever the state asks us to pay. All we ask in return is that the government keeps the streets safe and clean, that homeless people with drug and mental issues are not be allowed to roam freely and pose dangers to the public in our community, and that criminals who break the law are arrested and prosecuted. But maybe I'm wrong---maybe that's too much to ask.
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Thanks for all of the responses so far. A lot to think about. I’m a little surprised there are so many CA devotees who aren’t considering leaving.
We used to see drugged out zombies on a daily basis when we lived in our condo on the beach. We loved our ocean view but did not love stepping over people passed out on nearby sidewalks and/or seeing people ranting at the sky. While the ocean was pretty to look at, we never took much advantage of using it. We are from the South originally and have always enjoyed tropical beaches with warm water. Have never gotten used to swimming in water that’s in the 60’s or having to wrap up in warm layers to go sailing. I grew up sailing in a bikini! The condo is now our rental property and I can’t see us ever moving back to the beach. Just too many homeless there, similar to Freedom 56’s description of West Palm Beach in FL. We just saw former neighbors and they said it’s worse than ever now.
All of this played into our decision to move to the Desert a few years ago. It’s scenically beautiful with lots of great hiking trails, and we are fine with the weather here. We actually prefer it to the coastal weather most of the year. Traffic is much better here and we rarely hear police helicopters, definitely an improvement vs the coast. However, it’s still CA and has a relatively high homeless/petty crime problem as well as being affected by state legislation, taxes, etc.
We plan on taking W2R’s suggestion and spending some time in other states to see if we feel they could be a fit for us. We owe it to ourselves to see if there is a different area we think we could be happier in, and it will be fun to check out some other places. If we explore and ultimately decide to stay in CA, we’ll feel better about our decision, and if we find a place we feel more comfortable in, so much the better. I was hoping to hear from people who had been through this process but it sounds like most people who answered are happy staying put.
We used to see drugged out zombies on a daily basis when we lived in our condo on the beach. We loved our ocean view but did not love stepping over people passed out on nearby sidewalks and/or seeing people ranting at the sky. While the ocean was pretty to look at, we never took much advantage of using it. We are from the South originally and have always enjoyed tropical beaches with warm water. Have never gotten used to swimming in water that’s in the 60’s or having to wrap up in warm layers to go sailing. I grew up sailing in a bikini! The condo is now our rental property and I can’t see us ever moving back to the beach. Just too many homeless there, similar to Freedom 56’s description of West Palm Beach in FL. We just saw former neighbors and they said it’s worse than ever now.
All of this played into our decision to move to the Desert a few years ago. It’s scenically beautiful with lots of great hiking trails, and we are fine with the weather here. We actually prefer it to the coastal weather most of the year. Traffic is much better here and we rarely hear police helicopters, definitely an improvement vs the coast. However, it’s still CA and has a relatively high homeless/petty crime problem as well as being affected by state legislation, taxes, etc.
We plan on taking W2R’s suggestion and spending some time in other states to see if we feel they could be a fit for us. We owe it to ourselves to see if there is a different area we think we could be happier in, and it will be fun to check out some other places. If we explore and ultimately decide to stay in CA, we’ll feel better about our decision, and if we find a place we feel more comfortable in, so much the better. I was hoping to hear from people who had been through this process but it sounds like most people who answered are happy staying put.
Glad you’re happy with your new life in TX. I lived in Houston for 10 years and enjoyed it very much.
daylatedollarshort
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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"People leaving the state have lower incomes and education levels than those moving in, with the state’s high housing costs frequently cited as a reason for leaving....California is slowly sorting into a higher-education, higher-income state.", https://www.ppic.org/blog/californias-population-shifts-may-lead-to-new-income-divides/
It seems like with wealthier people moving in and a greater number of lower income households moving out, the state taxes collected per household would most likely actually increase, wouldn't it? The people moving in are likely to be high tax bracket and not in need of assistance programs, unlike the lower and middle class families that are leaving.
Not sure about the La Quinta market, but a home in our Palm Springs neighborhood just sold in 24 hours for an all time high price. I can understand that your kids keep you in CA.
I lived in the SF Bay area from 1968-1973, and in the San Diego area from 1977-1984.
I was one of those oddballs that didn't like living there at all. I don't mean to insult the Californians here.... but.... er.... of all the many (8?) states I have lived in for more than a year, for me, well, Cali was by far my least favorite. I didn't even like the weather; I have never felt colder than I did in the SF area, and the SD area was way too dry for me and for my skin. Weather wasn't my only objection to living in Calif, there were many and for me it just wasn't a good match. So, I was pretty happy when my ex was transferred out of there in 1984. I haven't set foot in California since.
See that's something that I feel a lot of people just don't "get"... no matter where you are, there will be some people that love it and some that hate it. It's just the way of the world. I love living in Louisiana but I know that many (most?) Americans would not put Louisiana at the top of their list. Great! More space for those of us here who love this state.
Anyway, my point is that when someone begins to think of moving to a different state, I think it's time to go on vacations to that state driving your car, so that you can explore it in depth and get familiar with it. No other state is going to be just like California, so keep an open mind about the differences and enjoy the adventure of it! You might find another state that you love just as much or possibly even more. It really can happen.
Thank you, W2R! I like your suggestion.
COcheesehead
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
First a joke, then a comment.
A father and son are looking at a map. The son says “dad why are there two Californias?”
The dad replies “well son, one used to be Colorado”
We live in Western Colorado or the West Slope as locals call it. We have more neighbors moving in from California, Texas is likely second, then any other place. Our home prices, while high, look better than CA. Our newest neighbor paid cash for a 7 figure home. They moved from the east Bay Area.
A father and son are looking at a map. The son says “dad why are there two Californias?”
The dad replies “well son, one used to be Colorado”
We live in Western Colorado or the West Slope as locals call it. We have more neighbors moving in from California, Texas is likely second, then any other place. Our home prices, while high, look better than CA. Our newest neighbor paid cash for a 7 figure home. They moved from the east Bay Area.
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