Anyone Considering Cancelling Travel

[Bamaman]

Way back in February we planned a trip out west over labor day to see Vegas and then on to Zion, Bryce and the South Rim. In Vegas we were planning on blowing some dough by staying at the Bellagio and catching a Cirque-De-Solei show. The trip is less than two weeks away. Just last Friday we rearranged everything. Changed our flights to arrive a couple of days later. Basically cut out everything in Vegas due to the rise in Covid. Now we will fly into Vegas, get the rental car and still visit the national parks.

We took that exact trip back in June. Had absolutely no problems distancing ourselves in Vegas as the casinos are just huge. And then, the foot traffic was relatively low. Only real problem was dealing with long lines at the "front desk" checking in and out.

We found hamburgers in the casino restaurants to be about $25 each. Most reasonable restaurant was over in the mall at Planet Hollywood--across from Bellagio. There were 4 of us, so meals were a major expense. Even McDonalds was much more expensive than they are "back home."

Expect to drive about 1,000 miles on your trip.

 

[Bamaman]

Try to get some real data on USVI before you decide. Not sure of your source, but the CDC had USVI rated as high risk, not advised to travel there (level 4). We looked at the actual number of cases and other stats and decided to go for 2 months from mid April to mid June of 2021. It felt very safe there. Frankly, a lot more masking than California with its draconian rules. The USVI doesn’t have a lot of hospital capacity so they have been very careful and conservative. We were even required to wear masks on our SCUBA diving boat en route to the dive sites.

I've been to Charlotte Amalie a number of times, and have seen every inch of St. Thomas. The problem with Covid might be the extremely poor people on the island place little emphasis on healthcare. In the Deep South States, we see that the poorer the population, the fewer people are vaccinated.

We found that at KMart in the off the beaten path, local rum actually cheaper than a big bottle of CocaCola. No wonder unemployment is out of sight there.

 

[Montecfo]

The great thing about a place like USVI (particularly St. John and St. Croix) is is is pretty easy to distance there. Restaurants mostly open air and you can also carry out. Most any beach is very safe.

 

[Chuckanut]

My decision is informed. Yes, I'm quite aware that my risk as a healthy person under 60, fully vaccinated, is very low. I'm sure many of us are well aware of our personal risk. And yet we have other considerations:

I don't want to get (even barely) sick and pass it onto others - loved ones or anyone, especially not my family, including those who might be at higher risk
I don't want to get stuck having to quarantine on a trip, or be denied entry on a multi-country (ie, euro) excursion
etc.

We all have our reasons, with many more factors than simply "hey I prob won't die so let's go!"

+1

 

[Out of Steam]

I worry more about being a long hauler than dying. Some of the long hauler stories are pretty grim.

Like many things in health, especially in middle age and beyond, dying is not the worst possible outcome.

 

[skyking1]

+1 to that.
+1 to @Aerides comment.

I have a high risk spouse, two sisters, a sister in law.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

Seems to me many people think they are safe from Covid now and are getting on with their lives. Except for the brief Covid coverage at the beginning of the news, TV mostly reinforces its OK to party like its 1999. They prefer to run news about celebrities, concerts, events and fun stuff...

The only trip we have taken during the Pandemic was an unplanned visit to the ER for a non-covid related emergency this past weekend. 3 days in the hospital was a grim reminder that the Covid battle is still going on out there. All staff masked and gloved up, some with respirators and face shields. One visitor allowed a day, temps taken and mask on for anyone entering. Empty waiting rooms everywhere, it was like a ghost town in those areas.

I get that we are all so tired of this Pandemic but lets not forget about all the essential workers, those that have been their for us during this Pandemic and are still fighting for our lives on the front lines. We got to meet a lot of these essential workers over the past three days and they are kind and caring people. We feel fortunate we were able to leave the Hospital after just three days. We feel guilty about leaving these caring people there knowing they face the risk from Covid and stress of handling Covid patients 24/7. We should all be doing our part for the essential workers...we are ALL in this together.....

 

[2HOTinPHX]

My decision is informed. Yes, I'm quite aware that my risk as a healthy person under 60, fully vaccinated, is very low. I'm sure many of us are well aware of our personal risk. And yet we have other considerations:

I don't want to get (even barely) sick and pass it onto others - loved ones or anyone, especially not my family, including those who might be at higher risk
I don't want to get stuck having to quarantine on a trip, or be denied entry on a multi-country (ie, euro) excursion
etc.

We all have our reasons, with many more factors than simply "hey I prob won't die so let's go!"

Very well put...

 

[Scuba]

The great thing about a place like USVI (particularly St. John and St. Croix) is is is pretty easy to distance there. Restaurants mostly open air and you can also carry out. Most any beach is very safe.

True. Even on St. Thomas, there were many times we were literally alone on the beach at some of the less touristy beaches, and nowhere near anyone else even on some of the more crowded ones.

 

[Scuba]

I've been to Charlotte Amalie a number of times, and have seen every inch of St. Thomas. The problem with Covid might be the extremely poor people on the island place little emphasis on healthcare. In the Deep South States, we see that the poorer the population, the fewer people are vaccinated.



We found that at KMart in the off the beaten path, local rum actually cheaper than a big bottle of CocaCola. No wonder unemployment is out of sight there.

Yes, rum is super cheap there. Before I’d cancel a trip there though, I’d want to research actual statistics such as case count, hospitalizations, and death trends. We found at the time we went that their numbers were far lower than US mainland numbers, yet the CDC had it rated as “don’t travel.” We had to take a COVID test to enter, but a test to return to mainland US was not required.

 

[Dtail]

Still planning on a road trip to Amelia Island, Savannah and St. Augustine in Sept.
We plan on wearing masks as appropriate.

 

[Badger]

My decision is informed. Yes, I'm quite aware that my risk as a healthy person under 60, fully vaccinated, is very low. I'm sure many of us are well aware of our personal risk. And yet we have other considerations:

I don't want to get (even barely) sick and pass it onto others - loved ones or anyone, especially not my family, including those who might be at higher risk
I don't want to get stuck having to quarantine on a trip, or be denied entry on a multi-country (ie, euro) excursion
etc.

We all have our reasons, with many more factors than simply "hey I prob won't die so let's go!"

+1 Traveling in the US can be a risk also. As infection rates are going back up some schools in my area are even starting to go back to online learning. Many others are reevaluating their safety measures. There is a teacher shortage occurring all over the US as so many are retiring early for a safer way to make a living and fewer are entering the profession. Hospitals are overflowing in most areas again due to extrememly large increases of unvaccinated patients and there have even been health providers threatening to walkout.
I wonder what will happen with an increase of travelers carrying the virus to other countries.



Cheers!

 

[sengsational]

Just Back from Puerto Rico

I sponsored the family, 6 "adults", for a week in PR and just got back.

The airports didn't have sit-down dining, but beyond mask wearing, it was business as usual. I wore an N95 in the airports on the way down, but just a cloth one on the way back.

In the "no good deed goes unpunished" category, the relationship with one daughter is quite the train wreck, at the moment, despite giving them an all-expenses paid trip to the Caribbean.

The night before flying to PR, DW and I went to an all-vaccinated, 20 person, outdoor party. A teacher (routinely tested) who was at the party later tested positive (no symptoms). Since we never got within 20 feet of her, never talked to her, and it was outdoors, DW and I didn't think it was relevant, and dismissed the "news". Then my sister, also at the party, said she had unexplained headache and malaise, and that she was going to get tested. Right away, DW read that text message to the kids, and tried to skirt the the timing of the non-disclosed teacher "news". Oh my. My one daughter and her boy friend are very jittery about Covid, and they were very angry to the point of making sure the remainder of the trip was miserable. I think the raw emotion of fear of Covid needed to go somewhere, so landed on DW and I as anger, along with the indignation associated with the lack of transparency. So sad, because DW puts the kids first, always, always, always, often to what I think is the extreme. We can hope time will heal all wounds. Wow, that was more than I intended to write on that topic, hehe!

As a result of the above, we used $125 worth of BinaxNow rapid tests, which are available all over the place in the pharmacies in PR. All results were negative. Oh, and my sister's headache? Negative for Covid on both BinaxNow as well as a PCR test. Much ado about nothing. I was going for an "unforgettable trip", but not memories like this! Makes me sad.

Back to the PR situation...they are serious about their mask compliance in PR....here's an example: I got out of my car at a gas station and the guy had one of those drawers you pass your credit card into. He wouldn't take my credit card because I didn't have a mask on! Yes, they require mask wearing all the time, even outdoors when nobody is near you.

I didn't study the Puerto Rico "executive order", but it appeared that the outdoor restaurants were at full capacity. We ate indoors a few times, and there wasn't any obvious blocking off of tables. Servers universally wore masks, and patrons wore masks during ordering. The ferry ride over to Vieques seemed to be operating at full capacity, but 100% compliance on masks, both in the waiting area and on the ferry. And it was HOT, so mask wearing was kind of a big deal. It tried my tolerance at times, and was called out a few times, by the gas station guy and, yes, by my daughter.

As to the future, I put my name in the pile for a Scottish Highlands motorcycle trip, but the organizer has been mum on announcing the dates (supposed to be September/October). I think "delta V" has changed the speed of things (see what I did there?)

 

[Sunset]

....
In the "no good deed goes unpunished" category, the relationship with one daughter is quite the train wreck, at the moment, despite giving them an all-expenses paid trip to the Caribbean.

The night before flying to PR, DW and I went to an all-vaccinated, 20 person, outdoor party. .....

I see why your daughter is upset, as this is exactly the type of thing that gets it spread around even amongst vaccinated folks, who might bring it to non-vaccinated people (children).

Most folks would probably think going to a grocery store for food, as acceptable, but going to a party seems like an unnecessary risk right before spending many days with the family.

Covid has made what was normal subject to extra concerns.

 

[Chuckanut]

I see why your daughter is upset, as this is exactly the type of thing that gets it spread around even amongst vaccinated folks, who might bring it to non-vaccinated people (children).

From what I have read a lot of we vaccinated folks may have already had a Breakthrough case. Many if not most are very mild. So, I can see your point about avoiding unnecessary contact with others before leaving on a trip that will involve contact with another group.


https://www.newyorker.com/science/m...ou-already-had-a-breakthrough-covid-infection

The above link makes a case for recognizing the difference between a rather weak breakthrough case and a serious BREAKTHROUGH case. (Warning: Its a long read.)

This is especially true because the term “breakthrough infection” is vague.

A breakthrough infection could be an illness that knocks you flat, a tickle in your nose, or nothing. Regular reports of breakthroughs suggest that we should be scared. But what exactly should we be scared of?

When you’ve been immunized and get an ‘infection’ ”—she raised her hands in scare quotes—“or, I should say, when you test positive by P.C.R.—that doesn’t mean there’s a robust viral infection raging in your body. Even if some cells do get infected, other parts of the immune system spring into action and stop it from spreading.” She went on, “Is that an infection? That’s a philosophical question. Technically, some cells got infected and the virus started to replicate. But the immune system prevented you from getting sick and shedding copious amounts of virus that can go on to infect someone else.”

Once again we are operating partially blinded by incomplete data. What else is new when dealing with Covid?

 

[Gumby]

Probably one of the best things we can do is not mingle with different groups of people in a short timespan, so as to allow for the possibility that the first group, despite precautions, had a Covid infection within the group. By not directly jumping into a new group, we can break any potential chain of transmission running through us. It doesn't stop us from doing group activities. It just requires a little more deliberation in our planning so that our group activities are more spread out temporally.

 

[audreyh1]

Well it’s a pretty nervous time for many to travel since things are happening so fast and fully vaccinated doesn’t provide as much protection against infection from delta. So I can see why someone would be anxious while traveling. Especially if they made the travel commitment when cases were much lower.

 

[sengsational]

I see why your daughter is upset, as this is exactly the type of thing that gets it spread around even amongst vaccinated folks, who might bring it to non-vaccinated people (children).

Most folks would probably think going to a grocery store for food, as acceptable, but going to a party seems like an unnecessary risk right before spending many days with the family.

Covid has made what was normal subject to extra concerns.

Yeah, the party was a special one for my sister. It was known by all before the Puerto Rico trip was even booked. But of course before the delta variant was around. I'd certainly have skipped a random party right before flying.

Probably one of the best things we can do is not mingle with different groups of people in a short timespan, so as to allow for the possibility that the first group, despite precautions, had a Covid infection within the group. By not directly jumping into a new group, we can break any potential chain of transmission running through us. It doesn't stop us from doing group activities. It just requires a little more deliberation in our planning so that our group activities are more spread out temporally.

Agreed. I actually was waiting for a call from the nervous daughter before the trip, suggesting we cancel. That might have actually been better than this fallout.

 

[Chuckanut]

Probably one of the best things we can do is not mingle with different groups of people in a short timespan, so as to allow for the possibility that the first group, despite precautions, had a Covid infection within the group. By not directly jumping into a new group, we can break any potential chain of transmission running through us. It doesn't stop us from doing group activities. It just requires a little more deliberation in our planning so that our group activities are more spread out temporally.

That's it! Administrator or not, I am putting you on my list of dangerous radicals who infest this site.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Probably one of the best things we can do is not mingle with different groups of people in a short timespan, so as to allow for the possibility that the first group, despite precautions, had a Covid infection within the group. By not directly jumping into a new group, we can break any potential chain of transmission running through us. It doesn't stop us from doing group activities. It just requires a little more deliberation in our planning so that our group activities are more spread out temporally.

Well said. This is why we cancelled the latter half of our trip. I planned on visiting cousins in two locations, DH's 80 year old mother, and a few friends, after attending a wedding.

 

[athena53]

Probably one of the best things we can do is not mingle with different groups of people in a short timespan, so as to allow for the possibility that the first group, despite precautions, had a Covid infection within the group. By not directly jumping into a new group, we can break any potential chain of transmission running through us.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but... after arriving home from the cruise with the two positive COVID cases last Friday (although I tested negative) I went to CVS Monday and got another, just to be safe. Results arrived today- negative. I had no reason to expect otherwise but I'm reassured.

In my area at least, CVS is available by appointment, no out-of-pocket costs, results in 1-2 days. I plan to do this before visiting my too-young-to-be-vaccinated grandchildren next month.

 

[REWahoo]

In my area at least, CVS is available by appointment, no out-of-pocket costs, results in 1-2 days. I plan to do this before visiting my too-young-to-be-vaccinated grandchildren next month.

Same here regarding CVS testing, except their testing appointments are booked up for 2-3 days in advance. And you may not get tested even with an appointment.

I know an individual who arrived for their appointment (you wait in your car and they come to you) only to have a CVS employee tell him sorry, the testing person had an emergency, his appointment was canceled and he would have to make another appointment.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

Woohoo...you all keep traveling and partying..nothing to worry about out there.

My offices tenitive reopening date just got pushed back to January 2022 due to latest surge projections from CDC. It's gonna be almost two years since I had to work in the office. Glad I work for a company that is taking the Pandemic seriously.

 

[athena53]

I know an individual who arrived for their appointment (you wait in your car and they come to you) only to have a CVS employee tell him sorry, the testing person had an emergency, his appointment was canceled and he would have to make another appointment.

Mine hands you the kit and you get to DIY. Fortunately the first one I had was a place that had someone come to the car and do it for you so I had an idea of where to go with it.

That first test was the one required at least 4 days before boarding for my cruise- they charged $165 but promised results within 24 hours and they delivered. My tests for family visits will be less time-critical.

 

[ElizabethT]

We are pretty resigned to doing only mainland USA trips at this point, primarily by car or RV. It's just to stressful to deal with changing protocols, the concern about getting ill midtrip and what that might mean (quarantine being right up there), and the risk of things closing down unexpectedly due to a surge.

We have immediate family in Texas and in Germany, and we will fly to see both of them in the upcoming months because one is elderly (my dad), and two are actively growing and changing (my granddaughters). I am not viewing these as vacations per se, and thus we will deal with whatever changing protocols might come our way since the point is to see family. In both cases the risk of possibly having to quarantine would not be as big of a deal given our focus will be on seeing family, and not the sights. (Though if we could see some sights that would be great!)

I am thankful to have already traveled to some 60 countries since FIRE'ing 10 years ago. It brings to mind something profound I read once upon a time, 'Postpone nothing!' (i.e., because you never know)