Of course there are those that want everything, but many folks I know live simple lives, buy used cars and have a TV thats 25 years old. They still have a hard time saving, what with helping their kids through college and just trying to make ends meet. I have no pity for those that live beyond their means.
Article - Bleak retirement outlook for millions
- Thread starter hankster
- Start date
Redbugdave
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
An interesting paragraph that goes along with your thread...
In this country, there is a 3 generation money cycle.
1st generation makes money.
2nd generation maintains the capital.
3rd generation spends the money.
This also helps explain the cycles of growth and depressions.
1st generation has the memory of poverty, (Great Depression,
Immigration, a couple of World Wars), and works hard.
2nd generation has the spoken memory of poverty by living with their
parents. This generation has progressed financially in the work place
and they provide a better life for their children that they themselves had.
3rd generation does not have a memory of poverty and thinks they will
always have money, so they spend.
In this country, there is a 3 generation money cycle.
1st generation makes money.
2nd generation maintains the capital.
3rd generation spends the money.
This also helps explain the cycles of growth and depressions.
1st generation has the memory of poverty, (Great Depression,
Immigration, a couple of World Wars), and works hard.
2nd generation has the spoken memory of poverty by living with their
parents. This generation has progressed financially in the work place
and they provide a better life for their children that they themselves had.
3rd generation does not have a memory of poverty and thinks they will
always have money, so they spend.
BunsGettingFirm
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2004
- Messages
- 1,502
You will not let us have a little fun will you?
Independent saw the article for what it was -- another PR blitz by Fidelity; therefore, the proper conclusion must be that Independent needs to be stoned to death so that we can further stroke our egos in peace regardless of blatant bad math.
If all these people decided to stop LBYM and to start saving then wouldn't our economy crash spectacularly from where it currently is? Wouldn't P/E ratios crash since they are based on future expected growth? Now that we've created such a personal debt bubble, spending is going to have to contract in a big way. This threatens our investments in a big way even thought it's harder to see. Not only could us savers have to pay more in taxes, but our nest eggs could be cut down by the crash in economic trajectory. Come to think about it... how can we avoid such a scenario? It almost seems inevitable as the baby boom population gets closer to an age when they won't have a choice but to cut back, and possibly even start saving at some level. I think this is the larger threat to us savers.
Nanita8140
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2008
- Messages
- 75
I plan to retire overseas to my native country(Argentina), where I have already bought a home during Argentina's worst financial meltdowns in 2001. I have stopped considering myself as an American citizen, or Argentinian....rather I will blew with the financial winds. I have already started scouting other countries where I could live. So far I see myself living in three different countries(Argentina, USA, and Spain)when I retire. I think this worldwide approach will help stem off inflation, and now I may even be able to not have to support the grasshoppers. I, like all of you am a strict saver and find myself at a relatively young age(41) with a substantial nest egg and so now I have shifted most of my focus of gathering wealth to contaning what I so far have. So, this phase of "containment" has led me to have to look at a global type retirement. I know people who are currently living in this plan and doing it successfully. My mother who is now 71 is doing this also...she lives 6 months out of the year in Argentina and by doing this she able to "just" live off of her social security money. This is of course because of the exchange rate....1USD gets you 3.14 ARgentine pesos. The exchange rate in conjuction with the lower food, utilities, etc. costs over there makes it quite feesable to live off of her SS. I do understand that it is much easier to do if a person is actually from another country to return there, but I must say that since I started researching I have come across Americans living in Argentina. It's not easy, and it is not for everyone, but is is doable. Of course, I am just 41 and a lot can happen from now till I'm 55(that's my retirement goal date), so who knows. But I think that "MOST" of us can see that the next 20+ years are not looking so good here in the states, considering our national debt, medicare, SS, and this crazy spend, spend, spend phenomenon that has griped the average American. I don't think that the American consumer will start to save all of a sudden...they will come eventually to the realization...but they may have to be brought kicking and screaming. Boy, I'm glad I found this site....I hardly post, but I read your posts daily and I must say that this site is a wealth of information that I am so happy to be able to attain.
Texas Proud
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- May 16, 2005
- Messages
- 17,313
Just to be a bit nickpicky...
But isn't Argentina south of here and 'connected' by land
That would then not be 'overseas'.... chinaco
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2007
- Messages
- 5,072
Many people did not prepare. Some could not afford to prepare, they did not have enough income (working poor).
This is but one reason that SS and Medicare are important.
We need to remember, we all paid into the system for SS and Medicare (plus your company paid into SS for you). It is not much, but if it combined with other publicly available resources, it will keep people from starving.
For those who had the money but did not prepare... they will suffer the consequences.
For those who prepare somewhat, SS and Medicare will help them to survive in retirement at a very minimum level.
Over 20 years ago a man at my church put on a little information seminar (his personal effort) for church members describing the retirement crisis (lack of pensions, etc) that would hit and the stress that would be on SS and Medicare. That was the beginning of my awareness of the problem. I recognized at that point that much of retirement would be my responsibility.
This is but one reason that SS and Medicare are important.
We need to remember, we all paid into the system for SS and Medicare (plus your company paid into SS for you). It is not much, but if it combined with other publicly available resources, it will keep people from starving.
For those who had the money but did not prepare... they will suffer the consequences.
For those who prepare somewhat, SS and Medicare will help them to survive in retirement at a very minimum level.
Over 20 years ago a man at my church put on a little information seminar (his personal effort) for church members describing the retirement crisis (lack of pensions, etc) that would hit and the stress that would be on SS and Medicare. That was the beginning of my awareness of the problem. I recognized at that point that much of retirement would be my responsibility.
RonBoyd
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Exactly!
Just to be a bit nickpicky...
But isn't Argentina south of here and 'connected' by land
Sort of like Texas?
...- Ron
Texarkandy
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,281
I've hear this thought stated in other places, so not picking on you when I grabbed the quote chinaco,
My concerns with this idea that "the grasshoppers will just have to suffer" is that all those grasshoppers can vote & they will vote for politicians who are intellectually inclined toward social welfare programs & redistributions of wealth.
I'm lately beginning to think the best solution will be to step up legal immigration and get 50 to 100 million new legal immigrants (ants
) in the United States who are hungry to earn & create capital & wealth for themselves.The problem with increasing immigration is that we will have high unemployment as soon as the LBYM baby boomers stop spending. We will probably be thrown into deflation for at least a couple years. I saw a news report saying that the democratic presidential candidates visiting Toledo recently had to acknowledge the poor state of the economy in Ohio. Unemployment in Toldeo is around 6% right now. When FDR visited there in the 1930's he also had to acknowledge the poor state of the economy but unemployment was 80% then. We have built a society with a lot of entitlement issues where people don't take responsibility for their own circumstances.
Still, I see a minimalist social security program as a good idea because the quality of all of our lives will be diminished if we go back to the poor and destitute roaming the streets, which is what you can see in places like India. Also, when people have nothing to lose it is dangerous for everyone in society because there is no recourse for their actions and that can lead to unchecked destruction of property and life. The key will be to maintain discipline in a minimalist approach to SS and educating people that they need to not assume it is something more.
Still, I see a minimalist social security program as a good idea because the quality of all of our lives will be diminished if we go back to the poor and destitute roaming the streets, which is what you can see in places like India. Also, when people have nothing to lose it is dangerous for everyone in society because there is no recourse for their actions and that can lead to unchecked destruction of property and life. The key will be to maintain discipline in a minimalist approach to SS and educating people that they need to not assume it is something more.
loosechickens
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2007
- Messages
- 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanita8140
I plan to retire overseas to my native country(Argentina),
Just to be a bit nickpicky...
But isn't Argentina south of here and 'connected' by land That would then not be 'overseas'....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, technically, because of the Darien Gap and the fact that there is no road that connects Central America with South America through it, and vehicles must be loaded on ships and shipped to Colombia.....Argentina is technically overseas.
Lots of reasons why no road exists through this area....definitely a difficult roadbuilding situation, but the REAL reason (not often spoken of) is that Panama used to be part of Colombia and when the U.S. was eyeing land for the Panama Canal, we assisted the rebels trying to secede from Colombia to create the separate country of Panama, with which we could better negotiate the canal.
To this day, Colombia considers Panama part of Colombia, and Panamanians fear, perhaps rightly, that were there a road handy for Colombia to invade Panama easily, they might be in trouble.
So........due to the Darien Gap, the OPs comment about Argentina being overseas is really, in a very real sense, correct.
Although I remember being really incensed reading a Barbara Kingsolver book, and the protagonist's sister being "overseas" in Nicaragua. Sometimes even famous authors have trouble with geography.
LooseChickens
Darién Gap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Originally Posted by Nanita8140
I plan to retire overseas to my native country(Argentina),
Just to be a bit nickpicky...
But isn't Argentina south of here and 'connected' by land
That would then not be 'overseas'.... -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, technically, because of the Darien Gap and the fact that there is no road that connects Central America with South America through it, and vehicles must be loaded on ships and shipped to Colombia.....Argentina is technically overseas.
Lots of reasons why no road exists through this area....definitely a difficult roadbuilding situation, but the REAL reason (not often spoken of) is that Panama used to be part of Colombia and when the U.S. was eyeing land for the Panama Canal, we assisted the rebels trying to secede from Colombia to create the separate country of Panama, with which we could better negotiate the canal.
To this day, Colombia considers Panama part of Colombia, and Panamanians fear, perhaps rightly, that were there a road handy for Colombia to invade Panama easily, they might be in trouble.
So........due to the Darien Gap, the OPs comment about Argentina being overseas is really, in a very real sense, correct.
Although I remember being really incensed reading a Barbara Kingsolver book, and the protagonist's sister being "overseas" in Nicaragua. Sometimes even famous authors have trouble with geography.
LooseChickens
Darién Gap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Texas Proud
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- May 16, 2005
- Messages
- 17,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanita8140
I plan to retire overseas to my native country(Argentina),
Just to be a bit nickpicky...
But isn't Argentina south of here and 'connected' by land
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, technically, because of the Darien Gap and the fact that there is no road that connects Central America with South America through it, and vehicles must be loaded on ships and shipped to Colombia.....Argentina is technically overseas.
Lots of reasons why no road exists through this area....definitely a difficult roadbuilding situation, but the REAL reason (not often spoken of) is that Panama used to be part of Colombia and when the U.S. was eyeing land for the Panama Canal, we assisted the rebels trying to secede from Colombia to create the separate country of Panama, with which we could better negotiate the canal.
To this day, Colombia considers Panama part of Colombia, and Panamanians fear, perhaps rightly, that were there a road handy for Colombia to invade Panama easily, they might be in trouble.
So........due to the Darien Gap, the OPs comment about Argentina being overseas is really, in a very real sense, correct.
Although I remember being really incensed reading a Barbara Kingsolver book, and the protagonist's sister being "overseas" in Nicaragua. Sometimes even famous authors have trouble with geography.
LooseChickens
Darién Gap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
From your reference....
"The Darién Gap is a large swath of undeveloped swampland and forest separating Panama (Central America) and Colombia (South America)."
So would that not be 'overswamp'
Thanks for the info... you learn something all the time here...
Similar threads
