Article on NY audits of Florida tax refugees

[MichaelB]

People everywhere complain, it’s one of the things that distinguish us from lower life forms.

A century from now, when we have colonies on other planets, someone will say “Planet X is a great place to live, but there’s too many people, too much traffic and the taxes are too high”.

 

[marko]

So progressive taxes are out. Because the wise take a different route home.

Growing up we had neighbors who only half-jokingly claimed to be 'tax exiles' from the UK. They literally 'took a different route' to avoid the high UK taxes of the late '60's.

IIRC, France had to recently rethink their millionaire tax due to an exodus of wealth.

I posted earlier about a CNN segment last week that showed how a few states are seeing a notable drop in their tax revenue as the wealthy are taking their residences elsewhere. They claim that Mass is down 50% (which I find a bit surprising).

The point, I think, is that most tax projections view everything as static without taking into consideration how money can walk "a different route home" and those most affected have the most options to do so.

 

[Winemaker]

Here is a map/calculator showing the migration due to taxes, down to the county level




https://www.howmoneywalks.com/irs-tax-migration/

 

[Philliefan33]

Here is a map/calculator showing the migration due to taxes, down to the county level




https://www.howmoneywalks.com/irs-tax-migration/

Interesting map. However, I don’t think it is necessarily correct to call it migration *due* to taxes. It’s really a map of migration *measured* by taxes.

If you drill down to the specifics for the states in the Northeast, they all lost the most taxable income to Florida and other southern states. I don’t believe that income tax / taxes in general was the sole reason, and probably not the most pressing reason. I think getting out of the cold winters was a major reason for wealthy (likely older) residents moving south.

Pennsylvania is a good illustration of the pull of warmer weather. PA has income tax laws that should be very attractive to retirees, as there is no state income tax on Social Security or 1099R income. Yet according to the map, there is an exodus of wealth to southern states.

 

[dm]

We left Missouri and moved to Florida. We moved because of the weather, no State tax or personal property taxes was a plus. But our real estate tax is higher, but our home down here is also worth more. Overall probably not paying much different overall.

Traffic and crowding is bad from January to April, and July and August we tend to go north for vacations.

Lots of building has been going on since I moved down 5 years ago.

 

[Clone]

We have purchased a place in Arizona. Primary reason- escape the cold winters, snow, and ice. I have also looked at 'would there be tax benefits to changing residence'? What I found was that there could be some savings, but it was not significant. Basically, if you start out in the middle of the pack, there is not a large amount to be saved going somewhere else. There are a few specific examples where it would be beneficial to be a resident of South Dakota, but the dollar savings does not create enough benefit to counteract the costs of moving away from family and the costs of relocating.

In contrast, we will not be relocating to a higher cost state because of the increase in taxes as well as the trends that we see in their government and their politics. In similar fashion, I have friends who have moved out of certain states with higher tax burdens, but the primary reason was the politics and looming economic challenges. They were more concerned about the impact on real estate prices than what their tax burden based on retirement income might be.

A number of people relocate after retirement to get to better weather, to move closer to children, or to get into a different tax environment. To say that folks are fleeing NY state because of the taxes is not accurate. But to say that it is not a factor is also not accurate.

 

[Dtail]

We moved to FLA from the NY Metro area due to lower COL, weather. As simple as that.

 

[NYEXPAT]

I left NYC for love! Climate/Opportunity/Cuisine/QOL/COL and taxes were all gravy.

 

[ivinsfan]

I have to drag in my favorite winter city of ST. George, Utah. Apparently they get a lot of California retired relocations.

Sevices and roads seem to be excellent. One of the keys here is they are not short of land in any way. The developer grabs a large acreage of desert scrub pays all the impact fees and taxes and the city gets all new residents and more houses to tax. Of course some day they might have a water shortage, but so far things are developing nicely.

 

[ziggy29]

IApparently they get a lot of California retired relocations.

Follow the housing prices that are getting out of control, and you'll usually see a bunch of Californians coming into the market.

 

[ivinsfan]

Follow the housing prices that are getting out of control, and you'll usually see a bunch of Californians coming into the market.

Yes SGU isn't that far from Cali and retired people with any equity in the Cali home come out pretty well when buying there.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

How cute. That must have been a laugh riot.



Your class must have been a lot of fun. What was the subject? Did you have tenure? Was it a private or a public school?

I decided not to post what I first was going to reply to you out of respect for this forum.

So the modified version is simply that I don't find your post to be one that promotes courteous discourse.

 

[statsman]

Follow the housing prices that are getting out of control, and you'll usually see a bunch of Californians coming into the market.

We're seeing some of that in and around Austin, TX, mostly with the spikes in property taxes. Long-time Texan homeowners living on moderate wages or retired income are getting shell-shocked with their property tax costs. Not sure how much of that is directly related to Californians moving to the state or Texas itself attracting a lot of businesses from other states looking to relocate. Probably some of both.

Speaking as Californians who moved to a suburb of Austin last year to follow our only child who moved to Austin three years ago, we have to walk on eggshells around long-time Texans. We keep our financial health out of conversations. It would just make matters worse.

 

[brainsagolfer]

I lived in NY for almost 20 years, then moved to PA, then NC. I contributed near the max allowed in 401k every year in NY - free of NY state tax, which was then 8.7%. I remember when the NY atty Gen sued florida to MAKE them collect NY state taxes on those who retired and moved to FLA. IT's a great way to make 8.7% on your $$$$!!!!
That said, i do agree that people from high tax states get used to the "goodies" , then move south and complain they dont have the nice state provided stuff anymore. Hence, the plan of mine to move out of NC when i retire- taxes are NOT really low, and they will only get higher as more northerner infect the area- myself not included of course.
PS the NY ATTY GEn lost the lawsuit.

 

[gwraigty]

I decided not to post what I first was going to reply to you out of respect for this forum.

So the modified version is simply that I don't find your post to be one that promotes courteous discourse.

I didn't take joeea's comments as necessarily being rude. They might have been sincere. Or maybe it went over my head.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

I didn't take joeea's comments as necessarily being rude. They might have been sincere. Or maybe it went over my head.

Well, I took "How cute. That must have been a laugh riot." and "Your class must have been a lot of fun" as sarcastic statements about my teaching ability, followed by "What was the subject? Did you have tenure? Was it a private or a public school?"

But, perhaps you are correct, and it was meant to be sincere. If so, I apologize for misreading it.

 

[joeea]

They claim that Mass is down 50% (which I find a bit surprising).

"down 50%" means nothing without context. Down since when?

Seems unlikely. Perhaps you have a link to the source of that claim?

 

[joeea]

I decided not to post what I first was going to reply to you out of respect for this forum.

So the modified version is simply that I don't find your post to be one that promotes courteous discourse.

Okay. You were clearly trying to make some sort of point to your class. I was trying to find out why/how/to what end and if the point was relevant to what you were teaching.

But you can just ignore it if you choose. There was indeed some sarcasm in my question, as there was in your "play a little game with my college classes" reply.

 

[youbet]

Me too, as long as it doesn't become harassment or too much of an invasion of privacy.

Sometimes the public gets what it asks for. Folks who try to game the system by having a modest home or rental in a low tax state and claiming residence there while maintaining their real residence in a high tax state are the ones causing the problem. Perhaps the answer for the state governments would be to avoid any tactics that could be considered "harassment" and instead really, really nail a few scofflaws when caught to spread a little fear......

 

[REWahoo]

We're seeing some of that in and around Austin, TX, mostly with the spikes in property taxes. Long-time Texan homeowners living on moderate wages or retired income are getting shell-shocked with their property tax costs. Not sure how much of that is directly related to Californians moving to the state or Texas itself attracting a lot of businesses from other states looking to relocate. Probably some of both.

Speaking as Californians who moved to a suburb of Austin last year to follow our only child who moved to Austin three years ago, we have to walk on eggshells around long-time Texans. We keep our financial health out of conversations. It would just make matters worse.

Travis county (Austin) and adjoining Williamson county (Round Rock, Cedar Park, Georgetown - which includes Sun City, one of the largest enclaves of Californians outside the Golden State) are among the top five highest property tax counties in Texas. My BIL and his wife live near Georgetown and speak frequently about the californication emanating from Sun City. You may have heard some things recently about the city government in Georgetown, like this Forbes article:

Texas Taxpayers Pay The French Government For Wind Power And Then Pay The Grid To Take It


Statsman, I think your low profile approach to your former state residence is a wise strategy.

 

[youbet]

Traffic and crowding is bad from January to April, and July and August we tend to go north for vacations.

+1

We spent much of this winter in Florida as well as the winters of 2016 and 2015. We couldn't believe how crowded it seemed in many areas! And we live in the shadows of the Chicago skyline, so we understand what "congested" means.

Just the same, we did spend some of our time in nice places and really enjoyed the weather compared to what was happening here at home.

 

[Koolau]

Agree that the physical state of roads in FL is great, primarily due to the lack of freezing.

<SNIP>

If that were the biggest factor, Oahu roads would be fantastic. As it turns out, our roads are much worse than those in the semi-rust-belt midwest state I used to live in. Back in the day, we had freeze thaw cycles weekly (or more frequent) during winter - and the heat finished things off in the summer. Still, they kept the roads in better shape than Oahu's roads.

One factor here (in Paradise) is the crumbling infrastructure UNDER the roads. There is a major thoroughfare in Honolulu that is constantly torn up as they chase newly broken water pipes. I don't ever recall traversing it without bumping over steel plates or going around cone-zones. I think roads are more a matter of priority rather than "natural phenomenon." YMMV

 

[Amethyst]

Maryland is getting vicious toward the high-income residents fleeing to Florida and North Carolina. MD is now withholding 7.5% of the proceeds of a house sale when you move out of state. This is supposed to ensure people pay any capital gains tax owed on the house, but it is charged to everyone, even if you had to sell at a loss.

Next year when you file your taxes with MD as a part-year resident, hoping to be refunded for the tax on the capital gains you did not receive, MD Comptroller's office may audit your return. They certainly are in no hurry to refund your money. And 7.5% of the purchase price is probably a lot more than most people would ever owe in CG tax. Think of it - 7.5% of a $500,000 sale is $37,500!

 

[Koolau]

Maryland is getting vicious toward the high-income residents fleeing to Florida and North Carolina. MD is now withholding 7.5% of the proceeds of a house sale when you move out of state. This is supposed to ensure people pay any capital gains tax owed on the house, but it is charged to everyone, even if you had to sell at a loss.

Next year when you file your taxes with MD as a part-year resident, hoping to be refunded for the tax on the capital gains you did not receive, MD Comptroller's office may audit your return. They certainly are in no hurry to refund your money. And 7.5% of the purchase price is probably a lot more than most people would ever owe in CG tax. Think of it - 7.5% of a $500,000 sale is $37,500!

I foget, can there be a class action suit against a state? Just wondering.

 

[Amethyst]

https://articles.ezlandlordforms.co...t-taxes-as-residents-abandon-high-tax-states/