Best Metrics of Health

[RAE]

Recent article in the Atlantic talks about metrics of health (and longevity)........which are good, which are not so good. As it turns out, BMI is not a very good metric; better ones include walking speed, number of pushups you can do, your grip strength.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/..._content=20190627&silverid=NTEwNDAwMTI2MjY4S0

 

[Big_Hitter]

Recent article in the Atlantic talks about metrics of health (and longevity)........which are good, which are not so good. As it turns out, BMI is not a very good metric; better ones include walking speed, number of pushups you can do, your grip strength.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/..._content=20190627&silverid=NTEwNDAwMTI2MjY4S0

BMI is a junk stat

 

[Bamaman]

The best metrics are the numbers produced on a full blood chemistry analysis. They and a chest x-ray speak--both of which are addressed on a yearly physical.

My wife was Stage I of a very aggressive uterine cancer 12 years ago. She would have been terminal in 6 months had she not been getting great physicals.

 

[COcheesehead]

The best metrics are the numbers produced on a full blood chemistry analysis. They and a chest x-ray speak--both of which are addressed on a yearly physical.

My wife was Stage I of a very aggressive uterine cancer 12 years ago. She would have been terminal in 6 months had she not been getting great physicals.

+1 I get yearly blood work. Trends become apparent quickly.

 

[Telly]

I think the best indicator is the ability to get up off the floor from sitting, squatting, or laying down, without using your hands, elbows, knees, or a large helium balloon
So yeah, I can do it

Back to the article --> .8 meters per second is only 1.8 miles per hour, so that is a pretty slow baseline. Ask me when I'm 90 if I can still do it...

There's no reply at all, no reply at all...
We're all just dust in the wind, DUDE!

 

[RAE]

The best metrics are the numbers produced on a full blood chemistry analysis.

I don't disagree with that, especially if you have all the most important blood tests done, and your doctor (or you) know how to interpret the results (sometimes docs will tell you everything is fine with your numbers when that is not the case at all........I know that from experience).

But in terms of indicators of general fitness, I think some of the metrics the article suggests can be useful. I hate pushups, but I do my chin-ups daily, I usually walk at a brisk pace, and I think my grip strength is okay (never had it measured formally, though). So maybe I'll be around for at least a few more years.........

 

[ckelly78z]

I have incredible grip strength, and a fairly low BMI (5-10 180#), but pushups are my kryptonite. I cut, split, and stack 5 cords of wood a year, and wife, and I run a farm with many animals, but for some reason, I can't do pushups.

I am amazed at the slow walking speed of many people my age, who look much older than I look.

 

[RunningBum]

These are just indicators, and things they've correlated that may or may not have cause associated with it. In other words, they could be coincidental correlators.

Firefighters with higher push-up capacity were more likely to have low blood pressure, cholesterol, triglycerides, and blood sugar, and not to smoke. People with the lowest grip strengths were more likely to smoke and have higher waist circumference and body-fat percentage, watch more TV, and eat fewer fruits and vegetables.

So if you can't do many push ups, but your BP, cholesterol, etc are fine, I'll bet the pushups aren't really a factor. Likewise if your grip is weak but you don't smoke, aren't portly, etc, grip strength wouldn't seem meaningful.

I've heard that one about being able to get up from the floor without using hands, etc. I hope that's not true because I don't think I can do it, though I haven't given it a real hard effort. Maybe that makes sense because if you can get up doing that, you can probably easily get up from a chair or bed and thus are likely to be more active.

 

[razztazz]

I have incredible grip strength, and a fairly low BMI (5-10 180#), but pushups are my kryptonite. I cut, split, and stack 5 cords of wood a year, and wife, and I run a farm with many animals, but for some reason, I can't do pushups.

I am amazed at the slow walking speed of many people my age, who look much older than I look.

Pushups are also bogus. I have made pushups the basic element of workouts since 2007. Because they require no equipment and I had ditched all my weights and stuff due to a previous health situation.

The truth about pushups (or any other kind of mechanical movement too, but it shows up more readily in pushups) is there are a lot of factors that determine how much weight is being moved. Length of arm bones, width of shoulders, proportion of arm length to body length, points of insertion regarding ligaments/muscle attachment etc etc etc. It's a poor indicator of strength let alone overall "health." Easier for a fairly squatty guy to do them than an equally or even more healthy/fit/strong long lanky guy to crank them out

 

[RAE]

I have incredible grip strength, and a fairly low BMI (5-10 180#), but pushups are my kryptonite. I cut, split, and stack 5 cords of wood a year, and wife, and I run a farm with many animals, but for some reason, I can't do pushups..

Yeah, same here with the pushups. I tried to include them in my exercise regime years ago, and couldn't do it. My shoulders hurt after doing them (for one thing), whereas I can do 16-18 chin-ups daily with no issues at all. So I'll stick with the chin-ups. I know what you mean about the slow walking pace of many folks, also.......some friends of ours (about our age......60s) walk so slowly that I can't go walking with them anymore - I either get yelled at (by DW) for walking ahead of them all the time, or if I try to walk (crawl?) at their pace, I get incredibly fatigued (and bored).

 

[braumeister]

Back to the article --> .8 meters per second is only 1.8 miles per hour, so that is a pretty slow baseline. Ask me when I'm 90 if I can still do it...

That does seem pretty slow.

My normal walking speed is more than double that rate. Even my mom walked faster than that when she was over 90.

 

[RunningBum]

It is slow. But I've had a recurrent groin pull this year, and when it happens I'm probably walking slower than that. It really hobbles me, and also makes it tough for me to get out of chairs and such, so I tend to be less mobile, which isn't healthy. The correlation probably is that people walking more slowly are less healthy, either via illness or injury, and that can spiral into worse health problems. Plus walking slowly burns fewer calories, so you tend to put on weight, which generally is less healthy and reduces lifespan. Note I said "generally". There are no absolutes in any of this.

 

[Rianne]

The article talks about strength and cardio. It's ignoring gut microbiome, T cells and so much more. I agree blood tests are indicators of problems. My oncologist takes a CBC differential, hepatic function (liver). These tests show cells going out of whack.

Example, I had what I thought was a pulled or strained muscle in my stomach from sit ups. I went to PC for muscle relaxer. She suggested a quick blood test. I agreed, not knowing why. I felt pretty good other than the strain. My white blood cell count was over the top. I went home, ready to go out to dinner and a movie with DH. PC called, said get to ER immediately. My appendix had burst. It was already leaking in the system. I had emergency surgery, 2 a.m. Go figure. Most people experience incredible pain with an appendicitis. I didn't.

 

[eytonxav]

I think the best indicator is the ability to get up off the floor from sitting, squatting, or laying down, without using your hands, elbows, knees, or a large helium balloon
So yeah, I can do it

I was going to say the same as a good simple test. Otherwise, I would think aerobic capacity would be a good indicator too, although you would need something to measure it, even using something as simple as a voldyne.

Edit -here is a video if anyone has not tried the getting up from a sitting position without hands:

 

[audreyh1]

Recent article in the Atlantic talks about metrics of health (and longevity)........which are good, which are not so good. As it turns out, BMI is not a very good metric; better ones include walking speed, number of pushups you can do, your grip strength.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/..._content=20190627&silverid=NTEwNDAwMTI2MjY4S0

Number of pushups was yet another BS observational study (correlation).

Adjust for age and BMI (again, no mention of adjusting for smoking), and the only significant difference in push-ups vs. heart disease is between the 10 push-ups or fewer group and the 21 to 30 push-ups group. So much for that 96% reduction in heart attacks for men who can do more than 40 push-ups vs. men who can’t do more than 10.

the 31-40 push-ups group has 50% more cardiovascular events than the 21-30 group, so if you can’t go up to 40, you’d better stay between 21 and 30.

http://www.fathead-movie.com/index....and-heart-attacks-the-usual-harvard-nonsense/

 

[razztazz]

I was going to say the same as a good simple test. Otherwise, I would think aerobic capacity would be a good indicator too, although you would need something to measure it, even using something as simple as a voldyne.

Edit -here is a video if anyone has not tried the getting up from a sitting position without hands:

I notice the people in this video are young. Making the entire enterprise questionable (laughable) at best . They're young. Of course they can do it barring illness, physical deficit or significant obesity How many 70, 80, 90 yrs olds can do it and do it easily? And how well will these specimens be dong in a couple of decades?

 

[timo2]

My third cardiologist after my heart attack had me do a treadmill test. In reviewing the results he said that his opinion the importance of the test was how long a person was able to do the test, not any of the digital statistical information gathered.

 

[gerntz]

My go to check of myself is solid ankles.

 

[eytonxav]

I notice the people in this video are young. Making the entire enterprise questionable (laughable) at best . They're young. Of course they can do it barring illness, physical deficit or significant obesity How many 70, 80, 90 yrs olds can do it and do it easily? And how well will these specimens be dong in a couple of decades?

The video is just a demonstration on how it's done, but I have heard before it's a harbinger of how long one might live. Personally, I am 70 and in reasonable shape by some measures, but not this one as my legs/hips just don't have enough flexibility to do it.

 

[tmm99]

Just because something correlates, it shouldn’t be considered an indicator.

Having said that, I was told when I was in my 50s that I have a grip strength of a 30-year-old male athlete, or something like that. (I’m female.) Yet I can only do a few push-ups.

 

[audreyh1]

The video is just a demonstration on how it's done, but I have heard before it's a harbinger of how long one might live. Personally, I am 70 and in reasonable shape by some measures, but not this one as my legs/hips just don't have enough flexibility to do it.

That was simply because the older you were in the test, the less likely you were able to do it. Mobility decreases with age, older people more likely to die. Duh!

 

[NW-Bound]

The video is just a demonstration on how it's done, but I have heard before it's a harbinger of how long one might live. Personally, I am 70 and in reasonable shape by some measures, but not this one as my legs/hips just don't have enough flexibility to do it.

I just did it, but I am not yet 70.

I don't know if any test means anything. The above test may show certain physical fitness, but nothing about other conditions like high blood pressure, high blood glucose, etc...

That was simply because the older you were in the test, the less likely you were able to do it. Mobility decreases with age, older people more likely to die. Duh!

Ain't that the truth. People get old, then they die. Some sooner, some later, and no knowing in advance in which group you belong.

 

[eytonxav]

That was simply because the older you were in the test, the less likely you were able to do it. Mobility decreases with age, older people more likely to die. Duh!

Of course older people are more likely to die, duh. I do not think the idea here is just based on getting older. Some people at any age may be more obese, have less joint stability and stiffening of their arteries which can affect flexibility. When that happens its more difficult to get up from the sitting position and one may become more prone to heart disease. My DW is 65 and she can do this with ease.

 

[NW-Bound]

Even as a measure of physical fitness, you need to compare to cohorts of the same age group.

How many people at 70 can still stand up without using hands? I am willing to bet that not too many can. Probably less than 1 in 10. I would not be surprised to learn it's less than 1 in 20.

 

[audreyh1]

Of course older people are more likely to die, duh. I do not think the idea here is just based on getting older. Some people at any age may be more obese, have less joint stability and stiffening of their arteries which can affect flexibility. When that happens its more difficult to get up from the sitting position and one may become more prone to heart disease. My DW is 65 and she can do this with ease.

Yes it was, if you looked at the actual test results and how many in each age group were able to get a high score. There were significant decreases in ability with age.

So, the older you are, the less likely you will be able to get up and down with no hands. And, BTW, the more likely you are to die.