Can't Justify an Expensive Hobby Even If I Can Afford It

[audreyh1]

Oh yeah, flying business class. Lots of justification arguments there!

 

[GoBears]

We don’t pay much attention to how we spend the money, just the total amount we withdraw from savings and the portfolio each year. The total withdrawal covers everything - food, dog, taxes, insurance, travel, wine, mortgage, hobbies, etc. As long as the overall number is reasonable, and it has been, we don’t sweat the details.

 

[skyking1]

Justify to who?

I don't have to justify anything to anyone. I do have to ensure that my wife and I have enough money to live the life we want as long as we are on the right side of the grass. We are in it together and decide what to splurge on together

I would say Flying Business class on international flights could go into the justify to others question as an example. As long as we together decide, then that is what we are going to do for the travel Hobby

Cars can be an expensive hobby and it is hard to justify how much we spend to purchase or modify our vehicles or toys

Some would spend a lot on an RV and that could go into the hard to justify column. I imported mine brand new from Australia . . . . My wife was fine with it

The below is over $160K worth of toys. Someone asked me how I justify taking an $80K vehicle, add about $30K in modifications and then take it offroad where it gets banged up. Then pull and expensive imported Australian Camper over mountains. My response has been to not wheel it if you are afraid to break it. Or for any hobby, go all the way or not at all


Justify to who?

Nice setup
I went the other direction, I purchased a used diesel truck that was an ex-logging fuel and crew truck and came pre-scratched for my offroading enjoyment
I took my wife up her first tree-lined trail in the PNW, got out and folded in the mirrors and let her have at it. Screeeeeeeeeeeeee!
No problem.

 

[street]

I don't think a 2nd home can be called a hobby, but it's expensive.

If I did not buy this high-country boondocks home 17 years ago and put the money in the S&P, that money would have turned into $1.6M. And that does not even include taxes, upkeeps, maintenance, utilities, insurance, etc...


PS. How much is my 2nd home worth now? I don't know, but certainly much less than $1.6M.

Very nice high-country home.

 

[flyingaway]

My wife and I like to play slots at casinos. It could get very expensive very quickly. We just allocate a certain amount of money for that hobby annually and try not to get addicted.

 

[Badger]

My spouse and I have not retired yet, but I'm posting this question in this part of the ER forum because I think it might get the most helpful responses here.

What if you 100%, absolutely, positively can afford a certain very enjoyable and very expensive hobby, but you simply can not justify the cost?

I've read that you should never tally up the expenses of what you enjoy doing for fun whether it be boating, flying a plane/helicopter, travel, etc. But I did it anyhow because we have been tracking all of our expense for many years. I'm a value seeker, though now I can't bring myself to rejoin the hobby because I know the costs all too intimately. Yet I've been miserable ever since I left it a couple of years ago.

I know...

• you only live once
• you can't take the money with you when you pass
• there are no awards for being the richest person in the cemetery
• we tend to regret the things we didn't do

Have you had an expensive and hard-to-justify hobby? Did you leave it due to the cost? If not, how did you carry on with it?

If I understand your post you struggle with having the money for your hobbies but have a difficult time in justifying to yourself some of the costs.
I have the same difficulty from being raised in a frugal household and then carrying that practice into adulthood. It is how I made it to retirement without debt while working in what many would consider very low pay yet will still have no problem taking care of my wife and myself with a bit to pass to children. No one cares what I spend except the two of us. Do I worry about what others might think. No! But that didn't seem to be your point.
If you are confident in your net worth and plans for retirement then once you become settled and have a few years adjustment to your annual income and expenses then you may feel a bit more comfortable with any hobby expenses.

Cheers!

 

[Souschef]

Oh yeah, flying business class. Lots of justification arguments there!

Aside from the added comfort of Business Class, the other benefit is the lounges. For example, BA has a great lounge in the Bradley terminal at LAX. We would arrive early, because traffic would not be a factor.

Just to sit in a quiet area, enjoy a light meal and beverages, and be out of the chaos of the terminal is a plus.

 

[audreyh1]

Aside from the added comfort of Business Class, the other benefit is the lounges. For example, BA has a great lounge in the Bradley terminal at LAX. We would arrive early, because traffic would not be a factor.

Just to sit in a quiet area, enjoy a light meal and beverages, and be out of the chaos of the terminal is a plus.

There are tons of benefits. How they are valued by each individual is highly variable. Thus often discussions of justifications or not justified after the shock some people express at the price differences. Also highly variable based on what people can easily afford and how important travel is to them - especially overseas travel.

Yet an amazing number of people find it indispensable after trying it.

 

[Car-Guy]

There are tons of benefits. How they are valued by each individual is highly variable. Thus often discussions of justifications or not justified after the shock some people express at the price differences. Also highly variable based on what people can easily afford and how important travel is to them - especially overseas travel.

Yet an amazing number of people find it indispensable after trying it.

+1, the only way I'd travel internationally is in business/1st...No if's, and's or but's. Heck, these days, that goes for domestic air travel too.

Otherwise the air marshals would certainly have to restrain me after the first few hours in coach.

 

[dmpi]

My wife and I like to play slots at casinos. It could get very expensive very quickly. We just allocate a certain amount of money for that hobby annually and try not to get addicted.

We do the same. It's easy to get carried away and regardless of how much money you have you can blow it all at the casino. We try to focus on enjoying the time and the people there rather than trying to hit some giant jackpot.

 

[Car-Guy]

My wife and I like to play slots at casinos. It could get very expensive very quickly. We just allocate a certain amount of money for that hobby annually and try not to get addicted.

We do the same. It's easy to get carried away and regardless of how much money you have you can blow it all at the casino. We try to focus on enjoying the time and the people there rather than trying to hit some giant jackpot.

Here's the problem I've seen with "playing slots" (a lot)... Sooner or later you will hit a few jackpots. ($1200 or more). With each one of those jackpots, you will get a W2G. State tax is usually withheld immediately and federal tax can be paid then or it will be owed when you file your annual return. Then over the year you play more and more. By the end of the year, 99% of us will lose more than we won but you still paid and/or owe the taxes on the jackpots. Yes, you can deduct/offset your losses (up to your winnings) if you itemize and you keep detailed and accurate records. But few do that. Technically all wins (large or small) need to be reported.

 

[Sojourner]

+1, the only way I'd travel internationally is in business/1st...No if's, and's or but's. Heck, these days, that goes for domestic air travel too.

Otherwise the air marshals would certainly have to restrain me after the first few hours in coach.

DW and I just returned from a long overseas trip, and we sat in "premium economy" seats on all four (long) flights. I found the seats comfy and fairly roomy, food/drinks/service were all quite good, and the overall experience was pleasant beyond my expectations. And PE was roughly 1/4 of the outrageous cost of the lie-flat, personal pod "business" class seating. We've decided to go premium economy as our standard from now on for any/all long, overseas flights. The cost-to-value ratio for business class is just astronomical these days and, IMHO, impossible to justify.

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^
I'm glad you were able to find "something" in the middle that makes you happy/comfortable. And I agree, business/1st can be crazy high priced.

 

[audreyh1]

DW and I just returned from a long overseas trip, and we sat in "premium economy" seats on all four (long) flights. I found the seats comfy and fairly roomy, food/drinks/service were all quite good, and the overall experience was pleasant beyond my expectations. And PE was roughly 1/4 of the outrageous cost of the lie-flat, personal pod "business" class seating. We've decided to go premium economy as our standard from now on for any/all long, overseas flights. The cost-to-value ratio for business class is just astronomical these days and, IMHO, impossible to justify.

People do make these comparisons, but my personal experience has been that business class has never been more than around 2x the economy price when we’ve purchased it. I expect our timing on ticket purchases helped.

 

[MercyMe]

My sincerest thanks to all who have replied. I'm going to have to re-read all of the replies and make some notes to build a follow up post to all of the questions and comments. There is more I can add to this dilemma to paint a better picture of where I am in this. I will post something tomorrow.

Until then, merry Christmas!

 

[audreyh1]

What really matters is aligning your budget/spending with your personal priorities.

 

[Music Lover]

Hobbies are not for making money. They are for enjoying time participating in the hobby activities.

It depends on the hobby. I make more money from playing gigs each year than what it costs me to play.

DIY is also a hobby that returns money. I have saved 10's of thousands over the years by doing own renovations and projects.

 

[punkinhead]

DIY is also a hobby that returns money. I have saved 10's of thousands over the years by doing own renovations and projects.

I'd like to think I've saved money but the last time I inventoried my tools was about 10 years ago and replacement value was north of $40k. Claiming I've saved money by DIY would be like a guy claiming his $15k bass boat saves him money on fish.

 

[Music Lover]

I'd like to think I've saved money but the last time I inventoried my tools was about 10 years ago and replacement value was north of $40k. Claiming I've saved money by DIY would be like a guy claiming his $15k bass boat saves him money on fish.

I can't imagine having $40k in tools, but I just have a few basics...table saw, miter saw, cordless tools, compressor, hammers, framing square, a few electrical and plumbing tools, etc. Probably just $2k all in.

 

[explanade]

DW and I just returned from a long overseas trip, and we sat in "premium economy" seats on all four (long) flights. I found the seats comfy and fairly roomy, food/drinks/service were all quite good, and the overall experience was pleasant beyond my expectations. And PE was roughly 1/4 of the outrageous cost of the lie-flat, personal pod "business" class seating. We've decided to go premium economy as our standard from now on for any/all long, overseas flights. The cost-to-value ratio for business class is just astronomical these days and, IMHO, impossible to justify.

Which airline?

I'm seeing PE tickets to Europe come at 50% or more compared to business class.

 

[Car-Guy]

I can't imagine having $40k in tools, but I just have a few basics...table saw, miter saw, cordless tools, compressor, hammers, framing square, a few electrical and plumbing tools, etc. Probably just $2k all in.

It's not hard at all. I sold a bunch of mine over the past few years but I was probably north of 40k (list price) maybe more, before I started "de-tooling". Probably still have 10 to 15k worth.

 

[NW-Bound]

DW and I just returned from a long overseas trip, and we sat in "premium economy" seats on all four (long) flights. I found the seats comfy and fairly roomy, food/drinks/service were all quite good, and the overall experience was pleasant beyond my expectations. And PE was roughly 1/4 of the outrageous cost of the lie-flat, personal pod "business" class seating. We've decided to go premium economy as our standard from now on for any/all long, overseas flights. The cost-to-value ratio for business class is just astronomical these days and, IMHO, impossible to justify.

I recall that you have a reasonably padded portfolio. Same as you, I find it difficult to pay for business-class seats, although we know how nice they are back when our megacorps paid for them.

So, premium economy it is, until we overcome our reluctance to spend, or our bodies deteriorate further to the point where we could no longer travel unless it's with a lie-flat seat.

I hope when we finally cough up the 2x airfare, it will be for the 1st reason rather than the 2nd. It's because if we become that feeble, I probably will not want to travel anymore.

 

[athena53]

I hope when we finally cough up the 2x airfare, it will be for the 1st reason rather than the 2nd. It's because if we become that feeble, I probably will not want to travel anymore.

For DH it was only a bit of the above. He was over 6 feet tall and had a creaky back. He referred to Coach class as "eating my knees". PE didn't exist when we were dong most of our travel and lie-flat seats with more room probably shortened the time it took him to un-kink his body and recover from jet lag by a day or so. He died 6 years ago (he was 15 years older) and I have to admit that it's a far easier decision to spend the bucks for one Business Class airfare than double that amount.

 

[deserat]

I'm not necessarily a Tesla fan but that is a nice looking automobile. I'm trying to decide between a Macan or Subaru WRX when I return to US in early 24.

My other expensive hobbies are traveling, flying and skiing. I will be going to Uzbekistan in April to see Samarkand, Sweden in March to ski for my birthday, Spain to hike part of 'the way' in May, UK in Feb to go to a disco party, Provence in Sep for hiking and Roman ruin tromping and canoeing under Pont Du Gard, and Jordan with the 99s in late Oct.

For 2024, and my 60th BDay, I will go to ski seminar in Telluride in Jan and then Japan in late Feb/early March to use the biomechanics I learned in Telluride (among other cool things to see in Japan).

REWahoo has bugged me about retiring already. Will be done in Oct/Nov of this year, bar none. As you can see I am already spending like a drunken sailor this year and on my way for 2024. (I also did this year, but I kept earning a lot, go figure-I've heard that money is like water, it needs to flow-I can attest to that this year-just as I've thought I've over done it, more money flows my way)

To the OP, if you can afford it, then why not? The mental block is your own. As long as you've met your obligations and then some, you should not be angst filled. Also, think about how your consumption keeps some people in their jobs. It's all related and most of us experience close to all of those relative positions at one time or another in our lives.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all here.

 

[Ronstar]

My hobby expense for 2023 will be mostly travel. I make a photo calendar every year. 2024 calendar will be old trains. Plan is to visit every vintage train museum/ site in the US during 2023 to get photos for my calendar. Don't have an itinerary yet, but it should take 2 trips a month.