Chip and PIN credit cards for Europe

[audreyh1]

I've read that the USAA cards issued now (as opposed to a year ago) are "signature priority" making them no different from the others. What a mess!

 

[audreyh1]

It is confusing …

This is similar to what a Charles Schwab rep told me for the 2012 trip to Europe for using the magnetic strip debit card. The card first needed to be used as a signature card before using it to withdraw funds. The rep for the 2013 trip said that was nonsense.

We're just back from a month in Italy and Romania. The magnetic-strip Chase Sapphire was a life saver when buying unanticipated and last-minute Trenitalia train tickets at an unattended station. I plugged in the debit pin when queried for "the pin" and to my great surprise and relief it worked. And worked again at another Trenitalia machine in a different city. Using the debit pin also worked for making a purchase in a store when it did not default to signature. (Per the Chase Sapphire rep the debit pin was *supposed* to be useless except for cash advances.)

I wanted to test but never had a chance to whether making up *any* 4-digit code would also do the trick. At other stores (except for that one, which was a clothing store a tad off the tourist track in Treviso) purchases defaulted to signature.

A few years back an AMEX starwood rep said any combination of 4 digits could be used for their pinless card if one is required overseas. But I never tried it out since that card comes with foreign transaction fees and so wasn't used.

Sobering to hear reports of debit cards being eaten by ATMs. I always worry about that every time I stupidly withdraw cash at night right before leaving a country. Never a problem, though, with Charles Schwab (either being eaten or dispensing cash). Capitol One (before they instituted conversion fees last year) also had a good record. Opened a Citi Gold checking account (that can be converted to a non-fee account now that I'm home) to use as a back-up since it too doesn't have conversion fees but never used it on this trip.

Charles Schwab (debit, at ATMs) and Chase Sapphire (credit purchases) handled it all. Shame that Chase Sapphire is about to cut the 7% end of the year mileage bonus and eliminate double-miles for travel and dining purchases.

Good to know that PIN works with some cards in that scenario.

Did someone post that some automated machines didn't request a pin at all?

 

[Alan]

Good to know that PIN works with some cards in that scenario.

Did someone post that some automated machines didn't request a pin at all?

We have found that at the supermarket sums less than ~$50 do not require a PIN at the self service checkout.

It is good that the August deadline has not changed any of the retailers yet, we have been to a couple more since my last post and they continue to accept a signature, without any explanation from me that is a USA card and I don't have a PIN card available.

 

[explanade]

I can't imagine they would cut off all the American tourists and not take their credit cards.

They'd lose a lot of sales by telling them to go draw money at the ATM and come back.

 

[mpeirce]

Apparently the great American move to chip cards is underway.

Last week Chase sent us a new Visa card with a chip in it.

Today (Costco) AmEx sent us a new card with a chip in it.

Both are chip and signature style cards, like our existing Bank of America Travel Visa we got because it was one of the few that offered chip cards at the time - and also a zero foreign exchange fee.

Too bad the American cards aren't full bore chip and pin, but this is definitely an improvement in card security.

Oh, I was chatting with my local farm stand purveyor who accepts credit cards using a Square card read attached to her iPhone and she mentioned Square was sending her a chip enabled reader next month...

 

[braumeister]

Too bad the American cards aren't full bore chip and pin, but this is definitely an improvement in card security.

It may be better than you think.
When I was in Iceland and Belgium back in June, I used both of my chipped cards, one Visa, one MasterCard.

They both worked as chip/signature when there was a human involved (restaurants where the server brings the machine to your table, for example), but they also worked with just the PIN at unattended locations (buying train tickets from a kiosk, for example).

It was also nice that my normal un-chipped ATM cards worked to get local cash everywhere I went.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Citicard sent me a card with a chip and magnetic strip. It was the card we used in Canada. A really nice feature was that at a restaurant the waitperson inserts the card into he handheld device and you can type in the percent tip you want to give. You sign on the screen or on the receipt. The device issues the receipt at the table. Saves the wait staff loads of time and no one walks away with your card.


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[Meadbh]

Citicard sent me a card with a chip and magnetic strip. It was the card we used in Canada. A really nice feature was that at a restaurant the waitperson inserts the card into he handheld device and you can type in the percent tip you want to give. You sign on the screen or on the receipt. The device issues the receipt at the table. Saves the wait staff loads of time and no one walks away with your card.

I really like that feature! Your card never leaves your possession. Most POS terminals are set up so you can choose to tip by percentage or by dollar amount. You can tear off your own receipt. I never have to sign, just enter my PIN. Of course, if you enter the wrong PIN, three strikes and you're out! Then you have to go to a bank to reset your PIN.

 

[audreyh1]

It may be better than you think.
When I was in Iceland and Belgium back in June, I used both of my chipped cards, one Visa, one MasterCard.

They both worked as chip/signature when there was a human involved (restaurants where the server brings the machine to your table, for example), but they also worked with just the PIN at unattended locations (buying train tickets from a kiosk, for example).

It was also nice that my normal un-chipped ATM cards worked to get local cash everywhere I went.

Who are your chipped card issuers? I'm getting a lot of conflicting reports.

 

[audreyh1]

Citicard sent me a card with a chip and magnetic strip. It was the card we used in Canada. A really nice feature was that at a restaurant the waitperson inserts the card into he handheld device and you can type in the percent tip you want to give. You sign on the screen or on the receipt. The device issues the receipt at the table. Saves the wait staff loads of time and no one walks away with your card.


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Yes, I love the pay at the table device they use in European restaurants (or you swing by the register on your way out and use a device up on the counter).

There is nothing stopping them from doing this in the US with swipe cards. I once ate at a restaurant in a smaller city in Washington State in 2011, and they brought a device to the table for me to swipe my card. And that was the only time I ever had that happen. It sure hasn't caught on in the US, has it?

 

[braumeister]

Who are your chipped card issuers? I'm getting a lot of conflicting reports.

USAA MasterCard, and Andrews FCU Visa. Those were the ones I used in Europe, and worked great.

But I have also recently received a new PenFed Visa and a Citi Visa, both with chips. I would expect them to work just as well.

As mpeirce said, chips seem to finally be catching on here.

 

[Gotadimple]

Yes, I love the pay at the table device they use in European restaurants (or you swing by the register on your way out and use a device up on the counter).

There is nothing stopping them from doing this in the US with swipe cards. I once ate at a restaurant in a smaller city in Washington State in 2011, and they brought a device to the table for me to swipe my card. And that was the only time I ever had that happen. It sure hasn't caught on in the US, has it?

Actually, I'm seeing these Square devices attached either to a cell phone or tablet at small vendors, like independent contractors or food trucks.

-- Rita

 

[explanade]

I heard the Square readers won't support PIN.

 

[MRG]

Who are your chipped card issuers? I'm getting a lot of conflicting reports.

My last Fidelity AMEX through FIA Cardholder Services has a chip. Walmart in this area has special readers for chipped cards, but it's only a signature validation.

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[mpeirce]

I heard the Square readers won't support PIN.

I don't think most American chip cards are going down the PIN path, rather they are still requiring signatures. I know my three cards all do

This list of cards A Rundown of US Credit Cards With EMV Chip Technology | The Points Guy only shows a few CHIP and PIN cards, and only one that does't sport an annual fee and/or FTFs (PenFed which I don't think I can't get).

As best as I can figure (please correct me if I'm missing something) American bank cards favor chip and signature cards because of liability issues.

From The Dinosaur In Your Pocket - Stanford University Press Blog

In the U.S., consumers’ liability is limited by the Electronic Fund Transfer Act of 1978, and losses from fraud are generally absorbed by issuing banks rather than retailers. So it comes at little to no surprise that retailers are not especially interested in investing in more secure technology, but neither are banks, as it turns out! Card issuers can claim a 50 percent tax write-off on losses from fraud, and they can easily pass the rest of the costs incurred from unsecure cards onto consumers and merchants via increased fees and charges.

 

[mpeirce]

I heard the Square readers won't support PIN.

The example on their website shows a signature...

https://squareup.com/emv

It won't be as simple to use. I noticed this on the page "Micro USB port for easy charging". Their old device didn't require power since all it really did was turn the data on the strip into a chirping sound (notice it plugs into the headset/microphone port) which is sent to their servers for decoding. Clever really.

Their chip reader will require more smarts and so power - and recharging.

 

[rodi]

I don't think most American chip cards are going down the PIN path, rather they are still requiring signatures. I know my three cards all do

This list of cards A Rundown of US Credit Cards With EMV Chip Technology | The Points Guy only shows a few CHIP and PIN cards, and only one that does't sport an annual fee and/or FTFs (PenFed which I don't think I can't get).

As best as I can figure (please correct me if I'm missing something) American bank cards favor chip and signature cards because of liability issues.

From The Dinosaur In Your Pocket - Stanford University Press Blog

PenFed is easy to join - are you a "member" of the Red Cross? Have you donated blood or donated cash to them? Voila- you qualify.

 

[explanade]

PIN processing has lower transaction fees, which is supposedly whey retailers are pushing for it over signature.

 

[Chuckanut]

I don't think most American chip cards are going down the PIN path, rather they are still requiring signatures. I know my three cards all do

My chipped card is an hybrid. I suppose they need to do this until all retailers have readers that support chip and pin. In the USA if used at a swipe register, it requires a signature. Period. Overseas, I have to use it at a swipe register once, say at the hotel I stay in. After that it can be used as a chip and pin card. I am not sure why they have the requirement to first use it as a chip and signature card overseas. Maybe somebody more familiar with this stuff can comment.

 

[audreyh1]

USAA MasterCard, and Andrews FCU Visa. Those were the ones I used in Europe, and worked great.

But I have also recently received a new PenFed Visa and a Citi Visa, both with chips. I would expect them to work just as well.

As mpeirce said, chips seem to finally be catching on here.

Apparently USAA has changed how they do their chip and PIN card, and some folks report it is no longer a "true" chip and PIN and doesn't work the same way, implying it sometimes doesn't work with PIN at all. This may be no more that it is now signature priority rather than PIN, but there is the recent implication that it doesn't work in some automated machines. Sorry I don't have a link.

Good to know the Andrews card works well. If I'm not happy about how my PenFed VISA chip and pin (signature priority) card works in Europe this next trip, I'll try to get an Andrews card. USAA is not an option for us.

 

[audreyh1]

Actually, I'm seeing these Square devices attached either to a cell phone or tablet at small vendors, like independent contractors or food trucks.

-- Rita

Right - those are swipe readers FWIW. What was brought to me in WA in 2011 was a full bore terminal just like they use in Europe, except that we did swipe the card.

 

[audreyh1]

My chipped card is an hybrid. I suppose they need to do this until all retailers have readers that support chip and pin. In the USA if used at a swipe register, it requires a signature. Period. Overseas, I have to use it at a swipe register once, say at the hotel I stay in. After that it can be used as a chip and pin card. I am not sure why they have the requirement to first use it as a chip and signature card overseas. Maybe somebody more familiar with this stuff can comment.

I have read this. And I have also read that this is a myth. I don't know what to do! That just seems so odd.

 

[explanade]

I just got a Barclays Arrival Plus card.

It lets you set a PIN on the website. Then you have to go to a chip and signature terminal which would communicate online and supposedly downloads your PIN.

Well I'm going to France next month. The real test will be to use the PIN part at one of the gas stations, because below a certain amount, it won't prompt for a PIN or signature at many unattended points of sales. Say train tickets or highway toll booths.

But if you're charging more than 50€ in gas at one of those stations which are unattended, that will be the real test. In past trips, I had to look around sometimes to find a station which had attendants.

 

[braumeister]

Apparently USAA has changed how they do their chip and PIN card, and some folks report it is no longer a "true" chip and PIN and doesn't work the same way, implying it sometimes doesn't work with PIN at all. This may be no more that it is now signature priority rather than PIN, but there is the recent implication that it doesn't work in some automated machines. Sorry I don't have a link.

Good to know the Andrews card works well. If I'm not happy about how my PenFed VISA chip and pin (signature priority) card works in Europe this next trip, I'll try to get an Andrews card. USAA is not an option for us.

Sounds to me as if your informants were either confused or didn't understand.

I just got that MasterCard last September (I called USAA and asked for one with a chip). It worked flawlessly in unattended kiosks. An advantage is that it also worked as pure chip/pin in restaurants, where the Andrews card defaulted to chip/signature. A disadvantage is that there were foreign transaction fees.

The Andrews Visa card also worked flawlessly in unattended kiosks. It also had the advantage of no foreign transaction fees. I'm looking forward to my next trip to check out my new chipped PenFed Visa.

 

[Chuckanut]

I just got a Barclays Arrival Plus card.

It lets you set a PIN on the website. Then you have to go to a chip and signature terminal which would communicate online and supposedly downloads your PIN.

Well I'm going to France next month.

Download the pin?!?! Well, I guess that makes sense. It would explain the need to first use it at a chip and signature business.

Please update us on how the card worked once you return from you trip. Thanks.