Consumer Reports survey: Hybrids are most reliable vehicles

[DayDreaming]

I was curious as to why they could not just use a 12V regulator, running from the high voltage traction battery. Accessories don't use that much current (no starter motor needed - that's the only really high current device) and I would think they could put in enough reserve in the big battery to provide enough to unlock doors, etc.

But I found a good reason:

https://provscons.com/why-does-tesla-have-a-12v-battery/



edit/add: But unless we are talking about a 2nd impact, with the first one hard enough to disable the big battery but not the air bags, the air bags would have fired before the big battery was disabled. Seems odd? But the other reasons still hold.

I'm a little surprised it's not a lithium battery though. But those are more $ than lead-acid, but also last longer.

-ERD50

Tesla switched from a conventional lead acid 12 volt battery to a lithium ion battery early this year.

 

[audreyh1]

Right, I hadn’t had a chance to come back and explain that. Much lighter battery and is supposed to last past the life of the car.

 

[jdiaz]

I have had a Ford Maverick hybrid in order since Nov of 21. Even had a VIN. Yesterday it was converted to a 23 order and I am waiting on the dealer being able to go in and edit.

We ordered a Maverick XLT Hybrid in July 2021, received it April 2022, and just passed 10k miles this past week. Its been everything we could have hoped for.

 

[Morricol61]

My Kia Niro hybrid is just about to turn 1 and it's a very good looking and comfortable car with more bells and whistles than I have ever had in a car before. It replaced a 2004 Nissan XTrail so I am probably easily impressed. At the time I bought the XTrail I thought it was the most tech advanced car I ever owned. It had electric windows, central locking and selectable 4WD - WOW what a car.

 

[triangle]

I find it interesting that something as complex as a hybrid vehicle - combining an ICE and electric propulsion system - would be more reliable than an ICE vehicle or an EV. Apparently not:

CR Survey Says Hybrids are Most Reliable Vehicles

CR's explanation:

I expected the same until I became interested in the 2022 Ford Maverick Hybrid and did some research on how it worked. I was not able to get into the ordering queue last year or this year (it came and went so fast). There was not a lot of info on the Ford design, other that it roughly followed the Toyota Prius design which has been reliable.

Besides Toyota's quality, I think that is because the pair of Motor/Generators which power the wheels replace the transmission. It seems that automatic transmissions have become the least reliable part of most ICE vehicles, at least in terms of preventing them from racking up higher miles. The electric motors require high power Inverter/ICs but there is less wear and tear on this system when compared to a transmission slowly wearing itself out with dirty hydraulic fluid. The batteries are a longer term maintenance concern, but mechanically the vehicle is arguably simpler than a classic ICE automobile.

I think the powers-that-be should promote hybrids over all electric vehicles for the next decade or so. As that would save a many barrels of oil and better utilize the supply of raw materials to make batteries and give more time to build out the grid. And allow more time to develop better storage, as current battery technology is still the achilles heel (heavy, expensive, slow to charge, catching fire after physical damage, recycling) of an all electric vehicle.

 

[HaveEnough]

Very early adopter of Tesla, I have a 2013 Model S, no self driving, but build like a tank. I am not a greeny type. [Mod Edit]

I dislike the over complication of having an engine and a motor and the bits in between to make them co-exist. If there have been little problems, I'm impressed.

The SigOther and kid have gas cars. They have been reliable. But I HATE filling up with gas and oil changes. Such a waste of time and hassle. Each time ... your blinker fluid needs replaced...

Down side of early adopter Tesla. The door handles on the Model S SUCK, This has been the largest problem.

Yes I had the battery replaced, very early. I have within the first 25000 production cars. So, expected.

I love waking up to 200-ish miles (with a newer Model S would be 300) every morning. Never having to go to a gas station, never having to schedule an oil change and never having to hear that my blinker fluid <grin> needs replaced.

With that said, the new Tesla Service, if you are used to Lexus or similar S-U-C-K-S. Bunch of kids that think customer service means ... no human, look at your phone.

I'll purchase an other all electric, doubt it will be a Tesla, even tho I really like Elon

 

[ken830]

Very early adopter of Tesla, I have a 2013 Model S, no self driving, but build like a tank. I am not a greeny type. [Mod Edit]

I dislike the over complication of having an engine and a motor and the bits in between to make them co-exist. If there have been little problems, I'm impressed.

The SigOther and kid have gas cars. They have been reliable. But I HATE filling up with gas and oil changes. Such a waste of time and hassle. Each time ... your blinker fluid needs replaced...

Down side of early adopter Tesla. The door handles on the Model S SUCK, This has been the largest problem.

Yes I had the battery replaced, very early. I have within the first 25000 production cars. So, expected.

I love waking up to 200-ish miles (with a newer Model S would be 300) every morning. Never having to go to a gas station, never having to schedule an oil change and never having to hear that my blinker fluid <grin> needs replaced.

With that said, the new Tesla Service, if you are used to Lexus or similar S-U-C-K-S. Bunch of kids that think customer service means ... no human, look at your phone.

I'll purchase an other all electric, doubt it will be a Tesla, even tho I really like Elon

I'm also an early Tesla adopter with my first Model S ordered in summer of 2012 and delivered in early 2013 with a 5,xxx VIN... It's so early that it doesn't even have power folding mirrors or ultrasonic parking sensors (although the Model Y my dad picked up on Friday also no longer have parking sensors). I've since added a 2018 Model 3 Perf and recently a 2022 Model X because my family is out-growing the S. Finally sold the 2013 Model S with 160,000 miles to a close friend last week -- still drives like the day we took delivery almost 10 years ago.

I think if you buy another EV, you're going to miss Tesla. German EVs have high-price or low range, a small trunk and never include a frunk. And their software sucks. Korean EVs are great values, but lower-end and small. Toyota can't even deliver an EV with wheels that don't fall off. Start-up like Lucid (okay) or Rivian (better) are still expensive and have software issues. Tesla is still the best bang for your buck while offering compelling features just not available anywhere else.

Sure, the newer Tesla cars no longer have free Supercharging or free unlimited data and they have smaller frunks and that annoying and unfair government-mandated pedestrian warning sound, but they are quicker, have longer range, and more driver assistance features. Even something as simple as the blinkers are more convenient to use -- they turn themselves off when the Tesla Vision system detects you've completed your lane change or turn or exit or whatever -- works flawlessly. And my wife and kids are spoiled by those automatic doors on the Model X. I know service is a bit different nowadays but that's expected when they grow from making 20k cars/year to 2M cars/year. They still get the job done albeit without providing loaners anymore.

 

[Bigdawg]

I'm starting to look at hybrids. My current vehicle (other than the 1983 CJ8 Scrambler) is a 2010 BMW X5 diesel. With diesel at $5.79/gallon and 24 MPG I'm not to excited about my current situation. DD got married 2 weeks ago and again we rented a minivan for transporting guests and stuff. Renting minivans seems to be our standard for these types of situations. Rented first one in Orlando in the 1990's and have always commented on their utility. I officiate sports and a few guys have minivans that work great when you are gearing up for a baseball game. Basically a locker room on wheels. So here I am about to give up my man card and get a hybrid minivan. If I need the testosterone rush I can fire up the lifted Jeep and feel like a tough guy for the day. The hybrid will not only be practical, it will also be a good first step away from ICE. Maybe a full EV somewhere in my future.

 

[NoEZmoney]

Our next car buy will likely be a hybrid. We have his and hers Grand Cherokees and drive very little though so it will be awhile before we need to buy. What model we get will depend on where we relocate as we're thinking about an exhurb community (somewhere near a larger city but about an hour's drive away). So nothing too small but not a full size SUV either.

 

[Venturer]

Our next car buy will likely be a hybrid. We have his and hers Grand Cherokees and drive very little though so it will be awhile before we need to buy. What model we get will depend on where we relocate as we're thinking about an exhurb community (somewhere near a larger city but about an hour's drive away). So nothing too small but not a full size SUV either.

When we got this Toyota Highlander Hybrid we also tested a Rav4 but decided the smaller size simply wouldn't work for us,the HiHy it turns out was great for us. Dw handles it good and mt 6'6" fits as well!

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Very early adopter of Tesla, I have a 2013 Model S, no self driving, but build like a tank. I am not a greeny type. [Mod Edit]
...

Down side of early adopter Tesla. The door handles on the Model S SUCK, This has been the largest problem. ...

The first time I saw a Tesla I looked at the "presenting" door handles and knew I never wanted to own one. Talk about gimmicky. And a likely trouble spot considering the mechanism's exposure to moisture and grit.

 

[stephenson]

Could someone explain this to me? I grew up with a bunch of guys that all had street machines--I had a '69 Roadrunner and then a '70 Cuda. Other guys in the group had a V8 Vega, Camaro SS, Boss 302 Mustang, Mach 1 Mustang, '69 Roadrunner 440-6 pack, '69 GTX 440, '68 GTO, '70 Chevelle 454, etc. etc.

All of them have a revulsion to EV's. I passed along a link to the new Dodge Charger Daytona SRT EV, they all said they hated it. Mind you, the Hellcat version is projected to go 0 to 60 in 2 seconds.

Why the love for noisy, smelly, overly complicated, (relatively) slow ICE vehicles? And hate for EV's? Because that's what they grew up with?

The same reason there are so many Baptists, Catholics, etc - it's what they grew up with.

 

[stephenson]

Absolutely need to find a fair way for electric and plug in hybrid owners to pay road taxes!

 

[audreyh1]

The first time I saw a Tesla I looked at the "presenting" door handles and knew I never wanted to own one. Talk about gimmicky. And a likely trouble spot considering the mechanism's exposure to moisture and grit.

Interesting, I don’t have those. I simply press the door handle.

That’s only on model S it seems.

 

[ken830]

The first time I saw a Tesla I looked at the "presenting" door handles and knew I never wanted to own one. Talk about gimmicky. And a likely trouble spot considering the mechanism's exposure to moisture and grit.

I bought one of the very first Model S vehicles. You were right about the Model S door handles, but it's been quickly fixed to the point that it's one of the more reliable part of the car. And the rest of the car is pretty reliable. This is from one of my favorite Youtube channels. Matt is a highly experienced mechanical engineer, builder, and tinkerer and worked at Tesla years ago. He is funny & witty. All of his videos are very fun to watch and nearly all of them aren't about Tesla:

 

[Bamaman]

I'm at the point in life where I like dependability, and I've found my Toyota hybrids have provided 115K miles without the first visit to the dealer. I don't cherish having to pay $150 per hour for a dealership mechanic.

I do my own maintenance, and I'm very mechanical. However when I open the hood of my new Venza AWD Hybrid I cannot tell you much of what I'm looking at. These are very complicated machines.

I sometimes will pickup the granddaughter at school, and I'm amazed at just the HVAC system being a work of genius. I can sit with the a/c on, and the engine just cycles 30 seconds here and 30 seconds there. It's mostly silent.

My mid size SUV runs up to about 50 mph often without the gas engine running. It's so quiet and smooth. And it gets 42.5 mpg all the time. My Camry trade got 49.5 mpg which is great for a full size sedan.

My Venza is a very nice vehicle with all the bells and whistles and it cost $32K. My Camry when bought in 2018 was $27K. Both are as nice as any vehicle I choose to pay for. I have no desire to pay twice that for any Tesla. I can buy a lot of gasoline for the price difference.

I often see Rich Rebuilds and other Tesla mechanics on Facebook Watch. And I'm appalled at how poorly run the sales and service departments of Tesla "dealerships" are. It's hard to even purchase parts from them. Wrecked Teslas pull huge prices on the used market by mechanics.

I have no desire to go through the frustrations some EV owners go through trying to get service. And hauling a non-working vehicle on a rollback wrecker 100 miles for service doesn't appeal to me. God help the customer that has a wreck in a Tesla. I could see where Tesla owners have to keep one or two other cars just to have transportation.

Like I said, I'm now into dependability, and technology is just not far enough along to get me in an EV. Within 3 hours of me, I can see where $20 billion is being spent on EV battery factories and additions/building of other auto factories just for EV's. Somebody's having to pay more for their current auto purchases to fund those immense capital expenditures, but it's not going to be me.

 

[freedom2022]

I had a 2018 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid for 4 years and it was completely trouble-free and an excellent vehicle. I was on the waiting list for over a year (I wasn't going to pay over MSRP) and got a 2022 RAV4 Prime. I traded in the 2018 RAV4 and got more than I paid for it. Crazy world, but that RAV4 Prime is fabulous. Worth the wait.

I am interested in buying Rav4 Prime.
May I ask how long does it take to charge fully? Overnight?

 

[stephenson]

bamaman,

You may have a modified case of what is sometimes called, "old man disease." I get it sometimes, too ?

The world is going EV for cars, bikes, motorcycles, scooters - and some light trucks - because it makes sense, will be less expensive, will be more reliable, will be cleaner, and will be safer. Industrial production will catch up, batteries will get better, more photovoltaic systems will appear on roofs, and more wind turbines in fields and offshore - it is happening and will continue.

Me? No EV or hybrid - yet. With two cars an EV would be for town (until fast charging and charging stations proliferate), and, in a perfect world a plug in hybrid for trips over 250 miles. Tried to buy plug in two years ago, but 35 mile range on electric not enough, so Subaru it was the choice for the single car (Subaru is far behind Toyota on EV and plug in hybrid).

I do miss the sounds of ICE V8s, but ...

 

[Dean56]

I have had a 2023 Maverick XLT on order since September 20. They characterized it as an "early order". I ordered it from my local Ford dealer sometime in August knowing that the dealer could not actually place the order with Ford until Ford opened 2023 Maverick orders in September. I think it's going to be a while but not a problem.

I know somebody that has a 2022 Ford Maverick and it has issues. He was driving down the interstate and the vehicle died. Nothing worked, electronics were shut down. He was stranded on the side of the highway. This has happened twice. Eventually the vehicle would come back to life and he was able to drive home. He took the Maverick to Ford and they can't find anything wrong with it. He's not the only one having these issues, others have been posting similar issues on online forums. Ford has been making hybrids for over 10 years, not sure why they can't get the Maverick to operate reliably.

Good luck with your purchase.

 

[REWahoo]

I know somebody that has a 2022 Ford Maverick and it has issues. He was driving down the interstate and the vehicle died. Nothing worked, electronics were shut down. He was stranded on the side of the highway. This has happened twice. Eventually the vehicle would come back to life and he was able to drive home. He took the Maverick to Ford and they can't find anything wrong with it. He's not the only one having these issues, others have been posting similar issues on online forums.

First thing I would do if it happened to me would be reboot. Disconnect the 12v battery for a couple of minutes, then reconnect.

 

[Dean56]

First thing I would do if it happened to me would be reboot. Disconnect the 12v battery for a couple of minutes, then reconnect.

I agree. With all the computer systems onboard these days, they sometimes get corrupted. A reboot, will usually fix the problem.


Google "2022 ford maverick shuts off while driving"
You'll see what problems others have had with their new Mavericks.

 

[LARS]

We have a 2022 BMW X5 45e, which is a BMW PHEV.

It is absolutely wonderful. Has a range of approximately 40 miles all electric.

Can pretty much do all we need around town as an EV, but when we want to take a trip we have an ICE and thus no range anxiety.

Actually drove it cross country and it was phenomenal.

 

[Telly]

I am interested in buying Rav4 Prime.
May I ask how long does it take to charge fully? Overnight?

According to CR, "It takes almost 5 hours to charge the battery on a 240 volt outlet". From the 2022 April Auto Issue, page 79.

 

[Koolau]

Yeah, if I could dream up any actual need for a new car, I think I'd buy a hybrid. Between my 2 ICE cars, they average 16 years old and have less than 90K each. I just can't think in terms of replacing them (even with such a reliable, efficient car as a hybrid) when I only drive 5K or 6K per year total.

 

[Music Lover]

I love waking up to 200-ish miles (with a newer Model S would be 300) every morning. Never having to go to a gas station, never having to schedule an oil change and never having to hear that my blinker fluid <grin> needs replaced.

The range of my car is 800 kms (500 miles), and if I need more it takes 5 or 6 minutes to refuel almost anywhere. Range anxiety and advance planning before I even go on a road trip is more of an inconvenience and more stressful to me than taking 5 or 6 minutes to refuel when I know that gas stations are everywhere.

Oil changes every 6 - 8 months are not an inconvenience. Maybe one day an EV will appeal to me but not yet.