Correlation between elections and gas prices?

[justin]

bright eyed,

I'm not sure what your point is by pointing out a "poverty level" family of 4 earns $20k year. Of course life is tough on $20k/yr. Of course they have difficult choices. But to think that they are somehow entitled to subsidized gasoline to put in their 8-seater SUV? If I was supporting a family of 4 or 5 on $20k/yr, I'd probably be hopping on the bus or my bike a whole lot more (no joke). It is amazing that the poverty standard of living has come to mean cheap gas for your gas-guzzling SUV. Or at least that's the impression I get from reading your post.

When me and my 6 ft- something buddies go to lunch at work, we ride in either my civic or my buddy's mazda 3. We never have really had any problems.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Justin:

Poverty now comes with a color TV...

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/PovertyNowComesWithAColorTV.aspx

It also goes without saying that you don't have to go very far south of our border to know that in some areas $20k/year would be great wealth.

 

[USK Coastie]

Anyone here stopped to consider how much of your portfolios are in energy stocks? Most mutual funds have an energy component. So if in your holdings you have Exxon, Mobil ,etc you are the problem because you wish to maximize your return on your investment right?/


As for the poverty level at $20K/yr. WHAT a joke!!!! You want to see real poverty go to a third world country. At least 98 % of the people in "poverty"here have got a color TV, microwave, phone, running water, and electricity (Data from US Census Breau). Somethings 2/3 of the worlds population do not have.

 

[justin]

I figure I have around $25,000 in energy-related investments. If Big Oil has a 10% profit margin, then they only have to increase prices by 10% (assuming they can set prices by fiat as some posters suggest/imply) to double their earnings, thereby making me an extra $25000 (assuming no P/E ratio expansion). I'll accept that bargain. That will cost my family around $150/yr.

Based on this analysis, I hope the oil companies are price gouging to the extent possible, since I will become grossly enriched!


Regarding poverty levels - I've certainly seen the amazing number of color tv's that poor folks have. Back when I'd help my FIL clean out his slumlord rentals, I'd be amazed that the folks couldn't pay to heat the house, but they always seemed to have 3 working color tv's and cable or satellite. Maybe you can pay the cable co. in food stamps now? Does Best Buy take them?

 

[ERD50]

i think it's just terrible to raise prices that cause such hardship on regular and low income people.

A few posts back, you were in favor of Euro-style taxes on gasoline. Wouldn't that hurt the low income people?

we all rant about tiny percentage charges between .5 and .4 for financial fees, i don't get to rant about gas? Huh don't they have to make money too?

Well, I don't think people rant about high fees, they simply point out that there are low fee alternatives, and that there is little evidence that there is any advantage to paying the high fees. AFAIK, Vanguard is making a reasonable profit, or they would change their business model.

When there is a less expensive alternative to petroleum, I'm sure all us frugal people will be talking about it! (Yes, you *can* make your own biodiesel out of old deep fry oil, but there's a price to pay in labor, storage, etc).

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

<<Prices are causing hardships?>>

yes! i make enough so it's not a hardship - just annoying but many families, particularly in CA make well under $50k per year - fed pov level is ridiculously low around $20k? for family of 4...so imagine the choices they have to make.

i have a honda pilot (ok, hold back your stones)...it is an "suv" but gets same/similar mileage to many sedans out there and we will likely get a prius (might hold out for that 90mpg 2009) next. I do have a hard time finding a car that will fit my 2 over 6 foot boys and 2 car seats...and minivans have similar mpg...by contrast my whole family of 5 (my parents and my sis's) all fit comfortably into an accord so we never needed a big car growing up.

are you guys so angry at me because i think it is unfair? we all rant about tiny percentage charges between .5 and .4 for financial fees, i don't get to rant about gas? don't they have to make money too?

Bright eyes... of course you get to rant... but like others, you get some rants back attcha...

But, (and not trying to be mean to you), it is the mentality that 'we can not' and then go on to explain why they need an SUV or other gas guzzler.. well, I am the baby of 6 kids.. we all used to pile into a Ford Falcon to go places... it was not comfortable, but we were poor and that is all we had..

Gas as a percent of income was higher then than it is today... we only went out to eat rarely and then to an all you can eat place.. today, that 'streached' family you see is buying pizza at $12 to $30 a pop, or McDs... buying cable, having a cell phone etc. etc... and don't complain one bit about all that money they spend.. when they stop bleeding money on those luxuries, I might start feeling sorry for them...

 

[bright eyed]

bright eyed,

I'm not sure what your point is by pointing out a "poverty level" family of 4 earns $20k year. Of course life is tough on $20k/yr. Of course they have difficult choices. But to think that they are somehow entitled to subsidized gasoline to put in their 8-seater SUV? If I was supporting a family of 4 or 5 on $20k/yr, I'd probably be hopping on the bus or my bike a whole lot more (no joke). It is amazing that the poverty standard of living has come to mean cheap gas for your gas-guzzling SUV. Or at least that's the impression I get from reading your post.

When me and my 6 ft- something buddies go to lunch at work, we ride in either my civic or my buddy's mazda 3. We never have really had any problems.

Justin, I never said that the poverty level family had an SUV... but many do have to drive cars to work - so if you pay $100 more per month cuz prices go up, then it is hard toss up what has to go. my family on my partner's side all qualify as poverty level, all work really hard, and all take a huge hit when prices go up on basic things like gas.

and your buddies fit into a civic? seriously, my boys scoot the seat all the way back and my little girls get enough room for their little toddler feet to fit...they can scoot up a smidge, but soon their knees are up near their chest...

I am totally a fan of walking, biking instead, but it is difficult to do w/ kids in tow and not always an option.

And yes, if we did have a euro type tax it'd have to take into account people who couldn't afford it and/or ramp up and make sure we have adequate public transportation...which we don't have here...

and why all this animosity for the working poor in the US? just cuz you get a tv and microwave you don't have problems? i never said they were equivalent to poverty in other countries...

 

[justin]

Justin, I never said that the poverty level family had an SUV... but many do have to drive cars to work - so if you pay $100 more per month cuz prices go up, then it is hard toss up what has to go. my family on my partner's side all qualify as poverty level, all work really hard, and all take a huge hit when prices go up on basic things like gas.

If $100/month is too much to afford, then I'd suggest to that individual/family that they consider living closer to their school/daycare/work, take the bus, carpool, drive less, etc. Maybe take a job closer to home for a small paycut (less than $100/month)? And yes, my DW's entire family are essentially poverty level/working poor. They don't seem to have a problem right now with anything. Plenty of luxury vehicles (mostly gas-efficient, though, except that toyota sequoia ). Plenty of food on the table. They don't really conserve gas at all. Cell phones, cable tv with extended channels, big screen tvs, high speed internet, etc. I have heard them bitch about gas a little though

My thoughts are that as long as prices stay below $15-25/gallon, I'll be first in line at the pump. I'll probably drive a lot less though. At those prices, I can still cut off an hour or so of my commute vs. bus or bike for only a few bucks extra.

Best wishes to those getting single digit gas mileage and commuting 60+ miles (one-way) to work everyday. Especially the poor ones. I kinda do feel sorry for the poor folks - but they'll figure it out eventually, just like the middle class will. Or gas might be $1.50 a gallon in a year.

and your buddies fit into a civic? seriously, my boys scoot the seat all the way back and my little girls get enough room for their little toddler feet to fit...they can scoot up a smidge, but soon their knees are up near their chest...

Yeah - my little toddler's feet always kick the back of my seat for some reason. I still don't understand why my 6'+ buds can fit no problemo, but my 2' 9" little un can't fit in.

 

[Cut-Throat]

 

[bssc]

So, let's say a family makes $50k per year, and spends $1000/yr on gas when it is at $1.50 per gallon. In other words, 2% of their annual budget is spent on gas. That equates to 20667 miles per year at 31 MPG. Now the price doubles to $3/gal.

That's easy, their investment portfolio should easily add on another $1000 because their oil company holdings. I think that I am 15 to 20 percent invested in energy companies because of their big runups.