The check deposits were treated as a BT, not a cash advance, but you should check and make sure. Chase charged me a 3% fee capped at $75, no big deal on the volume I was depositing, and Citi had no fee at all!
Credit card 0% cash advances
- Thread starter Lakewood90712
- Start date
I'll let everyone in on a little secret of mine. Citicards apparently has no limit on the amount of credit they will extend to cardholders. I get a new credit card from them weekly. Do the free $100 gift card offer, then balance transfer for a year at 0%, no transfer fees. It ends up being $400 profit or so per card on the amounts we're getting. All the cards are in a spreadsheet for accounts payable control and keeping track of expiration of zero percent offers. I've decided to experiment with the credit card companies. I'll keep doing these offers till I get $1,000,000 in credit from them. Shouldn't take too long at the current rate. I'm curious if there is a limit on how long they will offer me these cards. One would think a rational card company would see me with $50,000 or $100,000 or $500,000 in unsecured CC debt and eventually determine I'm a poor credit risk. We'll see. As long as they keep mailing us "preapproved" offers, I'll keep signing them and mailing them back.
MJ said:
Other than waiting by the mailbox? No. I did sign up for a few CC's online through citibank (www.citicards.com). But since then, I realized they send a preapproved offer about once a week for either me or my wife. It takes about 5 minutes to fill out the form, sign and drop in the mail. We do have an unblemished credit history (barring the frequent credit card applications, credit history inquiries and large outstanding balances, monthly payments and high debt owed to available debt), so I'm sure the CC companies have us on their "mail these guys every week" list.
You'll probably have to sign up for a new citicard to get the 0% interest for a year with no bal xfer fee.
Mr._johngalt
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The other day, I combined the credit limits
on 2 cards I held issued by the same company. Then, I took
a cash advance (no fee) into my bank account (-0-% APR into 2007).
The girl asked me how much I was taking. I told all but $100
of the credit limit. She says, "Oh, you know about this stuff!"
Damn straight!
JG
on 2 cards I held issued by the same company. Then, I took
a cash advance (no fee) into my bank account (-0-% APR into 2007).
The girl asked me how much I was taking. I told all but $100
of the credit limit. She says, "Oh, you know about this stuff!"
Damn straight!
JG
Be aware that there is a cost to having all this credit utilization on your credit report...if you are maxing out multiple lines...companies do look at your total credit utilization as a percentage of the total. For example, my auto insurance premium went up $100/6 months for no other reason than because my underwriter uses my credit score as a factor. Am I a greater accident risk now? Of course not, but that's their metric. I would change companies but no one will give me a better deal even with the rate increase. If you are applying for a lease, many apartments pull a CR these days and they may ask for a larger deposit (again, stupid, but what can you do).
Also, you can forget about qualifying for the best car/home loan rate while you have all this debt out there. I would not do it if I was going to be applying for a mortgage or buying a car on credit in the near future. Even when you pay off the loans, it may take 6 months for your credit score to recover.
Also, you can forget about qualifying for the best car/home loan rate while you have all this debt out there. I would not do it if I was going to be applying for a mortgage or buying a car on credit in the near future. Even when you pay off the loans, it may take 6 months for your credit score to recover.
It's funny how mechanical banks are. I had a single 0% offer outstanding for $10,000 when I got my mortgage 1.5 years ago. I told them I'm keeping the free money till it is due so that I can earn interest on it. The bank said no deal - paying off the zero percent CC was a condition of extending the loan. Now, the day after I signed the loan docs, I went out and got the same zero % offer for free money. Nothing in the terms of the loan agreement prevented that.
I'm guessing banks would do the same thing again were I to apply for a loan. Luckily I don't anticipate needing credit any time soon. Worse case, I can pay off all zero percent offers.
I hadn't considered how doing these transactions might affect my insurance rates.
My wife works for an investment bank dealing with derivatives. I'm curious if the compliance department at the i-bank will pull her CR and flag her as a security risk due to her high debt load.
I'm guessing banks would do the same thing again were I to apply for a loan. Luckily I don't anticipate needing credit any time soon. Worse case, I can pay off all zero percent offers.
I hadn't considered how doing these transactions might affect my insurance rates.
My wife works for an investment bank dealing with derivatives. I'm curious if the compliance department at the i-bank will pull her CR and flag her as a security risk due to her high debt load.
OP
OP
Lakewood90712
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justin said:
So in theory , with a million $ 0% apr unsecured credit line and funds in 4% money market, you can FIRE with a SWR of 4% or 40,000 per year , pretax. 8)
Just don't make a late payment , or the party is over.
Oh how I love America!
I should have clarified my $1,000,000 figure. I'm shooting for $1,000,000 in total CC credit available. Since most of the deals I'm participating in are 1 year deals, I won't have a $million outstanding at one time. I figure at the rate the CC companies are mailing me applications, I can get $200,000 to $400,000 per year at any one time on zero percent offers. I don't know what will happen when I have dozens or hundreds of CC's outstanding. The CC company may eventually stop issuing cards to me.
Have you read any of the 'App-o-rama' threads on fatwallet before? Basically you apply to every deal you can find online during the same day....supposedly it takes a few days for your new accounts to show up on the 'ol credit report, so your chances are greater applying for the accounts all at once. Seems to work ok.
greg
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justin said:
You go, Justin. We're all watching to see how it ends goes.
Maybe you'll end up retired in Costa Rica in a year. Good Luck.--Greg
Dogcliff
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See ya, and Raise ya
Current Discover Platnum offer... 0% on purchases AND bal transfers for one year.. no bal transfer fee...Just renewed my relationship with Discover, bumped their $8000 limit to $20,000, just for the asking...bal transfer checks in the mail to me...
Now...
Who's got the best MM/CD rates?
dc
Current Discover Platnum offer... 0% on purchases AND bal transfers for one year.. no bal transfer fee...Just renewed my relationship with Discover, bumped their $8000 limit to $20,000, just for the asking...bal transfer checks in the mail to me...
Now...
Who's got the best MM/CD rates?
dc
Mr._johngalt
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justin said:Just received another Citicards pre-approved offer in the mail today. $400 for the old FIRE fund.
Yeah, they just keep coming. Hope it goes on forever.
Free Money! Whoo-hoo!
JG
cube_rat
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Has anyone considered universal default rates? It's great and all to borrow free money, but caveat emptor! These sneaky CC companies can pull your credit report and bump your rate from 0% to the default APR, usually around 24%, if they see you're over utilized. ![:-\](https://www.early-retirement.org/sk/forums/images/smilies/undecided.gif "Undecided :-\")
The universal default can be so restrictive that if looked at the CC company crossed eyed, you could get hit. Bottom line is, read your disclosures!
The universal default can be so restrictive that if looked at the CC company crossed eyed, you could get hit. Bottom line is, read your disclosures!Mr._johngalt
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cube_rat said:Has anyone considered universal default rates? It's great and all to borrow free money, but caveat emptor! These sneaky CC companies can pull your credit report and bump your rate from 0% to the default APR, usually around 24%, if they see you're over utilized.
Good point. I've been working this deal for years and NEVER
had a real problem. If the CC company tripped me up
with fine print, or even if I screwed up and wound up
with "24%", I guarantee I would not pay it. I would negotiate out of it. Remember, I have the money, thus I have the leverage.
They don't have a chance.
JG
In the event I get hit with a universal default, I can pay off the debt immediately. I don't think "using the credit I've been extended up to its full limits" is a default term. The CC companies can see the credit I have available and my current credit utilization. Unless I agree with my creditors to refrain from using certain credit facilities or agree not to exceed a certain ratio of outstanding debt to available credit, they cannot hold me in default for exercising my contractual rights to the fullest extents.
The universal default concerns me. It is a risk. The acceptable failure rate for making on time payments on this venture is zero percent. The downside is limited.
The universal default concerns me. It is a risk. The acceptable failure rate for making on time payments on this venture is zero percent. The downside is limited.
cube_rat
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justin said:
Sorry, I have to disagree. I got slapped with a universal default rate when the creditor from company A saw that I was at 90% utilization with company B. They can hold you to the terms and conditions (which can contain a mixed bag of conditions that fall under universal default rates.) when you signed for the card.
In regards to paying off the debt immediately, is it really worth paying 24% on $10,000 for one month? It seems like it would defeat the whole purpose of saving money, IMHO.
Here are some credit forums if you are inclined to do some research:
www.creditboards.com
www.artofcredit.com
cube_rat said:
So I pay 2% for a month. That is assuming it takes me a full month to pay off the balances or cure the default and have my original rates reinstated. When I'm getting 4% per year, it is a risk I'm willing to take. Remember, everything is negotiable, especially when it comes to interest rate terms with credit card companies.
In regards to the universal default terms, I've done my due diligence. I've read the terms and conditions on the CC agreement, and understand it pretty well (I went to law school). The agreements I have with the companies I deal with do not have a credit utilization limit that, once reached, triggers a term of default. I'll be watchful in the future, but for now I'm safe. I know there are risks involved in these types of transactions. But they are easily quantifiable and determinate.
maddythebeagle
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A lot of folks dont go over 90% utilization on any one card since that is known to be something cc's dont like and many do considerably less. Maxing out your total credit, is REALLY BAD, too. Some just do it and hope for the best (or dont know the additional risk that you appear to be). Are you saying your bt rates went up or your purchase rate?
cube_rat
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Yes, it's bad. This occured during a dark period in my life. Today, I have no debt other than my mortgage which is far cry from where I was at last year. My non-mortgage debt last year = $65,000 Today = $0
I think the OP (justin you can bust my chops if I'm incorrect), wants to leverage existing credit by using a balance transfer mechanism to fund a savings account like ING or Emigrant. He'll let the money sit in the account until the clocks runs out. Then pay in full. I got the impression from the OP that he would leverage the entire available credit, hence my preaching about over utilization.
Today = $0I think the OP (justin you can bust my chops if I'm incorrect), wants to leverage existing credit by using a balance transfer mechanism to fund a savings account like ING or Emigrant. He'll let the money sit in the account until the clocks runs out. Then pay in full. I got the impression from the OP that he would leverage the entire available credit, hence my preaching about over utilization.
