Dave Ramsey Show and FIRE Caution.

[Z3Dreamer]

AKA pure wast of time.

You are right. I should have qualified my comments more. I only listen while driving around town (short trips). And it is only sometimes. Most of the times, I am playing Scorpions or Judas Priest or Ozzy or something as equally informative.

 

[MarieIG]

I feel the same way about Suze O though she's at least more focused on a bigger picture most of the time rather than the minutia of DR (though YMMV.)

I used to listen to the Suze O show. I liked the "How Am I Doing" segment. But - she advised almost everyone to retire at age 70. . . (I am also leery of her products - I recall the debacle with the card she offered.)

 

[ER Eddie]

Dave was very helpful to me 25-30 years ago, when I was 40K in student loan debt and trying to get out from under that. He provided a lot of motivation and good advice. I combined his teaching/motivation with lessons from the voluntary simplicity movement to turn my life around (financially but in other ways, too).

I think we're being somewhat unfair to him in the thread. He has in fact helped a lot of people to get out of debt, which is no small thing. He has mades a huge difference for tens of thousands of people, at least. I get the feeling some people here are smirking at him from above, from high financial perches, but please remember you are a tiny minority. Tons of people struggle with basic financial issues in a way you cannot relate to. Doesn't mean they don't benefit from help.

I don't listen to him any more. He gives ridiculous stock and retirement advice. But for getting and staying out of debt, he's a great guy to listen to. (Or was, anyway. I assume after 25 years of dealing with the same issues over and over, he's probably not as enthusiastic as he used to be.)

 

[2HOTinPHX]

Dave was very helpful to me 25-30 years ago, when I was 40K in student loan debt and trying to get out from under that. He provided a lot of motivation and good advice. I combined his teaching/motivation with lessons from the voluntary simplicity movement to turn my life around (financially but in other ways, too).

I think we're being somewhat unfair to him in the thread. He has in fact helped a lot of people to get out of debt, which is no small thing. He has mades a huge difference for tens of thousands of people, at least. I get the feeling some people here are smirking at him from above, from high financial perches, but please remember you are a tiny minority. Tons of people struggle with basic financial issues in a way you cannot relate to. Doesn't mean they don't benefit from help.

I don't listen to him any more. He gives ridiculous stock and retirement advice. But for getting and staying out of debt, he's a great guy to listen to. (Or was, anyway. I assume after 25 years of dealing with the same issues over and over, he's probably not as enthusiastic as he used to be.)

Agree 1000 percent......
Dave provides great motivation to get out of debt...I used to listen to him at lunchtime at work around 2006. People calling in and telling their stories of getting out of debt and doing debt free screams was very inspirational to me. Told the wife about the program and we listened and purchased his total money makeover book. Great stories for those looking for motivation to get out of debt. We got on board with the debt snowball plan...of course we tweaked it and paid off the highest interest rate items first. We didn't have much debt at the time probably just a car loan and mortgage. We decide to get serious and pay off everything including the house after the 2007-8 scare. Wife got laid off and my work was doing a "voluntary" 10% reduction in workforce. We decided we didn't want to be in that situation again. So we focused on paying it all off and did so as quickly as possible using Dave's plan and inspiration. No more keeping up with the Jones for us thanks to Dave.... WERE DEBT FREE!!!

Also agree his stock and retirement advice is suspect...
I listen to him now and then for entertainment and he seems to have gotten a little more angry, grumpy or defensive. I think maybe he is feeling pressure from those who call out some of the things he does. It has really become a money making machine for him...with some questionable practices unfortunately...IMO.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I am not a fan of Ramsey, he takes advantage of folk weaknesses to get notoriety. The principles he touts are pretty standard and common sense to most educated folk.

 

[retire48in2018]

We were grateful for DR while we got out of debt. Overall, we’re mostly following the principles and they mostly are in agreement with what it takes to do FIRE. It was disappointing that those 2 were so judgemental/uniformed, etc.

Leaving aside topic of CC, it’s not very controversial IMO. He pushes people to get knowledgeable about finances with financial advisors. (Go to someone with a heart of a teacher, if you don’t understand it - dont invest in it ). Many of his paid endorsement are fee, some are AUM. He advocates buy & hold. He does not push a particular AA, though he mentions his stock equity portion is 25/25/25/25 - translates to international, large cap, mid cap and small cap. I don’t recall hearing too much about bond portion. He mentions that he personally diversifies beyond stock with a lot of real estate.

I think his program is fairly weak in the area of actual investments

 

[rk911]

The dude on the right, whoever he is, was just barking out one ridiculous assumption after the next...

Dude on the left is George Kamel, dude on the right is Ken Coleman. Both are "Ramsey Personalities". Dave was not in that video.

As for the message....we see occasional posts on this forum from folks worried about making their nest egg last. I think that's a normal fear from folks who have worked, saved and invested all their lives...regardless of when they regrired.

Many, maybe most of us here, did not retire at 30 or even 40. I think most of us FIREd at or above 50, not because we hated the concept of work but because we were now free to pursue more meaningful work, paid or volunteer. We both took part time jobs shortly after retiring at 55, not for the $ but for the satisfaction. We mixed traveling with those jobs until those jobs got in the way at which point we retired...again.

The mistake the hosts made was assuming anyone who FIREs hasn't thought it thru or planned for that, both financially and lifestyle wise. Also, for extrapolating the 30-yr old's experience to everyone else.

 

[Texas Proud]

Dave was very helpful to me 25-30 years ago, when I was 40K in student loan debt and trying to get out from under that. He provided a lot of motivation and good advice. I combined his teaching/motivation with lessons from the voluntary simplicity movement to turn my life around (financially but in other ways, too).

I think we're being somewhat unfair to him in the thread. He has in fact helped a lot of people to get out of debt, which is no small thing. He has mades a huge difference for tens of thousands of people, at least. I get the feeling some people here are smirking at him from above, from high financial perches, but please remember you are a tiny minority. Tons of people struggle with basic financial issues in a way you cannot relate to. Doesn't mean they don't benefit from help.

I don't listen to him any more. He gives ridiculous stock and retirement advice. But for getting and staying out of debt, he's a great guy to listen to. (Or was, anyway. I assume after 25 years of dealing with the same issues over and over, he's probably not as enthusiastic as he used to be.)

I also agree with this... if you are in a big hole with debt then the little I know of him is some reasonable things to do to get out of debt...


Isn't he the one who says to make a budget and put money in an envelope and when empty you are dong buying whatever that represents? If so, that is a great idea for someone who does not budget at all and just spends and spends...


Ramsey is a great salesman... he knows how to sell what he is selling... and makes a LOT of money doing it... BTW, I did see that he was rich but then had to declare bankruptcy when his loans were called... I think that made him who he is against debt...

 

[MarieIG]

I also agree with this... if you are in a big hole with debt then the little I know of him is some reasonable things to do to get out of debt...


Isn't he the one who says to make a budget and put money in an envelope and when empty you are dong buying whatever that represents? If so, that is a great idea for someone who does not budget at all and just spends and spends...


Ramsey is a great salesman... he knows how to sell what he is selling... and makes a LOT of money doing it... BTW, I did see that he was rich but then had to declare bankruptcy when his loans were called... I think that made him who he is against debt...

I have no idea whether he says that or not. What I can say is that this was not invented by Ramsey and has been around for years. When DH and I first started a family I did that - and not because I spent and spent but because there was a very limited amount of funds to cover expenses and it was an easy way to budget.

 

[SecondCor521]

Dave Ramsey does espouse the envelope system. I've never heard him claim he invented it. They used to sell an envelope system product, which I think was basically just fancy envelopes.

On credit cards, Dave Ramsey asserts, with some evidence, that even if you don't pay interest and even if you get cash back or points, people tend to spend more with credit cards than they do with debit cards or cash. I'm sure most here would claim that doesn't apply to them.

The Financial Samurai guy is not a good representative and hardly a founder of the FIRE movement. I think Kamel and Coleman mostly misunderstood what FIRE is about, so most of what they said in that segment was off base. A few things were food for thought for me.

 

[Blue Poles]

Dave was very helpful to me 25-30 years ago, when I was 40K in student loan debt and trying to get out from under that. He provided a lot of motivation and good advice. I combined his teaching/motivation with lessons from the voluntary simplicity movement to turn my life around (financially but in other ways, too).

I think we're being somewhat unfair to him in the thread. He has in fact helped a lot of people to get out of debt, which is no small thing. He has mades a huge difference for tens of thousands of people, at least. I get the feeling some people here are smirking at him from above, from high financial perches, but please remember you are a tiny minority. Tons of people struggle with basic financial issues in a way you cannot relate to. Doesn't mean they don't benefit from help.

I don't listen to him any more. He gives ridiculous stock and retirement advice. But for getting and staying out of debt, he's a great guy to listen to. (Or was, anyway. I assume after 25 years of dealing with the same issues over and over, he's probably not as enthusiastic as he used to be.)

Ramsey's wheelhouse is getting people out of debt. If that was all he did, then I think there would be much less criticism of him. But he doesn't, and his investment advice is horrible. What strikes me is that he is smart enough to know this, and if he wanted to he could do much better. But he chooses not to, and would rather steer his audience to planners who will take advantage of them. No doubt he gets a cut, despite his assertation that he doesn't. He could be better, but chooses not to, and for this all the criticism is earned.

 

[Texas Proud]

I did not say he 'invented' it... just that it was part of his spiel...


Yes, it is proven that using a CC people spend more than with cash... or even a debit card... but that is the total population... you cannot spend more than the cash you have without a CC...


I doubt that I spend much more than I would with a CC... but not sure about DW or DD... however, they still might spend the cash as they are not the ones making it...

 

[MarieIG]

I did not say he 'invented' it... just that it was part of his spiel...


Yes, it is proven that using a CC people spend more than with cash... or even a debit card... but that is the total population... you cannot spend more than the cash you have without a CC...


I doubt that I spend much more than I would with a CC... but not sure about DW or DD... however, they still might spend the cash as they are not the ones making it...

No, I didn't think (or say) that you did. I was just expressing that the envelope system has been around for a long time. Memories for me. We did not have credit cards when we were first married.

 

[Texas Proud]

No, I didn't think (or say) that you did. I was just expressing that the envelope system has been around for a long time. Memories for me. We did not have credit cards when we were first married.

LOL, I remember when I got my first CC... I had graduated college and was making a whopping $22K a year... had to go to the bank and talk to an officer.. he said they were going to give me $750 credit ONLY because I was working for a big accounting firm... otherwise I would not have gotten one..



Thinking about it... I eventually went to work for that same bank!!!

 

[Koolau]

LOL, I remember when I got my first CC... I had graduated college and was making a whopping $22K a year... had to go to the bank and talk to an officer.. he said they were going to give me $750 credit ONLY because I was working for a big accounting firm... otherwise I would not have gotten one..



Thinking about it... I eventually went to work for that same bank!!!

I must have gotten 6 unsolicited Gas cards when I graduated from university. I used them to establish credit - which w*rked.

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

The idea of FIRE is to "work yourself to exhaustion and beyond" and have "no life"? I tuned out at that point. Maybe he should do just 5 minutes of research on a topic before he spouts off about it. nah...

Same here. Such a lazy tactic: create a strawman and then knock it down. But maybe it's for the best -- who wants more drivers on the roads on Mondays?

-BB

 

[Safire]

I like Dave's advice about financial independence but these two hosts seemed to have not gotten the memo nor understand that FIRE isn't living on noodles and peanut butter for thirty years.

I personally find some of the Ramsey team members very judgy and a tad hypocritical. Their Facebook group is run by a person [Mod edit] who seems to love booting people out... one wrong question and OUT!

That said, I think in this particular video, they meant that retirement does not mean staying home 24/7 and morphing into a fossil. I think they meant to stay "productive" while doing what you love in "retirement". That's just what I got from this clip.

 

[Badger]

I might listen to DR while driving to or from work for the entertainment but I don't work anymore.

Cheers!

 

[scrabbler1]

LOL, I remember when I got my first CC... I had graduated college and was making a whopping $22K a year... had to go to the bank and talk to an officer.. he said they were going to give me $750 credit ONLY because I was working for a big accounting firm... otherwise I would not have gotten one..

Thinking about it... I eventually went to work for that same bank!!!

I was making only $23k a year when I got my first CC about 5 months after graduating college. Citibank, my bank at the time, had just lowered its annual fee from $25 to $10. One afternoon, while getting some cash from one of its ATMs, a bank rep walking around with a clipboard saw me and asked me if I was interested in signing up. I was, and I did. Not sure what the CC limit was, but it was more than your $750, probably a few thousand dollars.

I didn't stay with Citibank's CC after that first year's discounted annual fee. No-annual-fee CCs were becoming more common in the late 1980s, and I got an unsolicited CC offer in the mail not long afterward and signed up for it.

I rarely used my CC back then, often going months without using it. It was handy for when I went out of town on vacation, especially for plane tickets.

 

[Gumby]

I didn't get a credit card until I was 25, after I got married. The young wife had to rent the car on our honeymoon because she had a credit card and I didn't, so I thought I had better get one. Then, I had only an Amex card for years and years, and you had to pay that in full every month. I was 37 years old before I had a Visa card where it was possible to carry a balance (although I never did). Somehow, I managed to figure out that credit card debt was bad without the help of Dave Ramsey.

 

[Koolau]

I didn't get a credit card until I was 25, after I got married. The young wife had to rent the car on our honeymoon, because she had a credit card and I didn't, so I thought I had better get one. Then, I had only an Amex card for years and years, and you had to pay that in full every month. I was 37 years old before I had a Visa card where it was possible to carry a balance (although I never did). Somehow, I managed to figure out that credit card debt was bad without the help of Dave Ramsey.

Maybe he learned it from you!

 

[sparky08]

When DW and I were first married, there wasn't the internet. No finincial forums or reddits or Youtube channels about good financial practices.

We started out with college debt, cc bills, a baby and other expenses. We discovered Ramsey and started to get our financial houuse in order.

Back then (early 80's), DR was the lone voice. We got the message and I'm grateful for that.

 

[FREE866]

And can everyone stop calling early retirement a "movement"


Quite frankly I'm sick of all these acronyms for everything



I wanted freedom from the prison of corporate America , spending 50 hours a day in an office, small talk with co workers about trivial nonsense,etc.....if wanting to get away from that is some "movement" that we need to redefine the word

 

[Rianne]

Plugged into Firecalc:

Start: 3,000,000
Spend: $50K
Years: 60 yrs.
0 SS
0 Pension
Kept portfolio at Total Market
CPI inflation
75% equities: 100% Success

Kick up the spending to $75K: 0 chance of success

I guess I could see the success of a single person, living in Thailand. 50K is the total spending. I cannot see a 34-year-old with kids spending $50K for the rest of his life.

 

[Markola]

And can everyone stop calling early retirement a "movement"


Quite frankly I'm sick of all these acronyms for everything



I wanted freedom from the prison of corporate America , spending 50 hours a day in an office, small talk with co workers about trivial nonsense,etc.....if wanting to get away from that is some "movement" that we need to redefine the word

Careful or you’ll launch the FFPCA Movement.