Food Triggered Irregular Heart Rhythm?

[OfficeSpace]

DH has been able to avoid pre-beats or irregular episodes by avoiding caffeine for years.

Same, though I still experience it occasionally when lying down. I shared these Wellue BP2 logs with my doctor who was unconcerned.

 

[Exchme]

I agree with OP about feeling terrible when my PVCs/PACs flare up, and the doctor's advice to ignore them is not so easy to do.

My cardiologist explained that adrenaline is a big trigger for them and that naturally moves up and down during the day, when wearing a monitor you could see mine disappear when I fell asleep and start again as soon as I woke up.

Since cutting out all caffeine (including chocolate), the only time they get me now is when I get stressed out about something (adrenaline again) or eat too much sugary food.

I saw both bananas and watermelon on OPs list of trigger foods, those are both very high glycemic index, so maybe that's something to watch out for.

 

[indiajust]

Bananas have always pushed me around too. Not as far as PAC, but general malaise and heartburn. Other high potassium stuff aggravates me, or combines and sneaks up on me.

 

[EastWest Gal]

That's kind of harsh. He has been very supportive since the PAC's started. There was no arrogance involved, he simply said he had no medical explanation behind my banana theory, but if it improved my situation to continue doing it. Furthermore I have seen multiple doctors over the last couple years and they've all had the same position on the PAC's. The exact cause is unknown, it's not going to kill me, try the medications that are known to help, and avoid common triggers.

Once I exhausted the typical medical solutions, I saw no harm in a little DIY experimentation to see if anything had an effect. There truly may not be any medical reason it's helping and it's strictly a placebo affect. Either way I'm just happy to find some relief, even if it's temporary.

I agree with your assessment. You had an extensive cardiac work up and nothing was found. Physicians do not know all the chemistry of every food, and they should not be expected to. It could be particular polyphenols or flavinoids or something, since it appears to be related to a few plant based food.

The thing to do is to cut out the possibly offending foods, then add them back one at a time, and at nothing less than a two week interval. We did this for mild food allergies.

Another thing to share about PACs is they are extremely common in the first three days of life, and we don't do an extensive workup, as they are usually gone in a week. An EKG identifies them as PACs, and are likely triggered by the physiologic surge in thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), which triggers a thyroid hormone (T4) surge. This starts within 30 minutes of birth. TSH levels can peak as high as 70 mIU/L in the first 24 hours then drop to <10 mIU/L within the first three days, and after the newborn period it is <6.0mIU/L. Thyroid hormone shoots up then also settles back down to normal levels after the newborn period.

Have you had your thyroid hormone levels checked? an elevated TSH and a low T4 indicates hypothyroidism, and low TSH and elevated T4 indicates hyperthyroidism, which could trigger PACs. It's a bit more complicated than that, but may be worth consideration. PACs can be triggered by hyperthyroidism, which can make you feel unwell. In themselves, PACs usually do not cause noticeable symptoms.

 

[Sojourner]

I've had PVC's for years and did the full workup etc, all to have 3 different docs tell me to relax and not worry. Still they are worrisome whenever they kick up.

I have noticed that excessive alcohol can kick them up the day after. Also, eating generally can tend to increase them, I'm assuming due to the digestive process.
...
Stress, however, is the one thing that reliably brings them on. I have been able to track "hidden stress" just by their presence. Some times I don't think I'm under stress, but when I notice they are increasing I ask myself some questions and sure enough something is bothering me. Once I identify that, they tend to resolve again.

This describes almost exactly my experience with frequent PVCs over the past seven years. I have yet to find any connection between specific foods or vitamins/minerals/nutrients and PVC frequency. Sometimes (like right now), I can go many weeks or months with very few PVCs, while other times they can number in the 1,000+/day range. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the on again, off again pattern. Both my doctor and my cardiologist have said consistently that they are not dangerous and that I shouldn't worry, so I try not to. But it's hard to simply ignore the uncomfortable physical sensation of all those skipped beats.

Caffeine seems to have little effect, unless I've had too much to drink (which again I attribute to alcohol).

Not at all the case for me. Caffeine is a major, guaranteed PVC trigger for me. I avoid it like the plague. Alcohol, OTOH, does not seem to increase my PVCs and can actually decrease them substantially while I'm drinking. Probably due to the fact that it's an anxiolytic, and anxiety/stress/adrenaline all seem to be correlated to higher levels of PVCs generally.

 

[mountainsoft]

Have you had your thyroid hormone levels checked?

Yep, all normal.

 

[mountainsoft]

Alcohol, OTOH, does not seem to increase my PVCs and can actually decrease them substantially while I'm drinking.

Same here. Alcohol seems to reduce my PAC's too, unless I really go overboard and drink too much. Liquors seem to bother me more than beer or wine, but I rarely drink liquor anyway.

I also think Ibuprofin helps reduce my PAC's, though I don't take it often enough to come to any real conclusion.

My PAC's have been fairly active this week, much more than the past few months. I made peanut butter cookies and have been eating a few every day, so I'm thinking that might be the trigger. I'll know better once they are gone.

 

[bmcgonig]

I had PACs and PVCs for years too when I had intermittent AFib. Once I had the ablation everything went quiet.

The PVCs are easy to detect because they just feel like a skipped or early beat. The PACs were different in that I wasn’t sure if it was that or AFib. Eventually got a Kardia so I could tell the difference. I’m assuming you know that you don’t have AFib.

With respect to PVCs the docs don’t care unless you have more than 20000 a day ?

 

[Sojourner]

With respect to PVCs the docs don’t care unless you have more than 20000 a day &#55358;&#56631;

My cardiologist said that while 20,000/day was a widely used threshold for interventional treatment (i.e., ablation) many years ago, these days much lower PVC burdens can be treated if both the patient and doctor agree about the risks and rewards. My doc said that ablation has become so safe and effective that it could be considered for burdens as low as 7% if the PVCs can't be suppressed by various medications or other first-line treatments. For some people, having to live with and just "get used to" a 7% burden would be a terrible nuisance, while others would learn to tune it out and go on with their lives. Having been in the 5% burden club myself several years ago for a few months, I can say that anything over 5% would be very hard to tolerate or just get used to. It's good to know ablation is there if things get too "bad".

 

[JoeWras]

I started getting PVCs after losing 70 lbs (over 2+ years). They weren't that bad, they just left me feeling a little short of breath and I could feel the "wiggling" in my chest, which was weird but not painful. CoQ10 has controlled them pretty well, as I mentioned in the supplements thread, to the point where I tried reducing the dose to see if it was resolved, and they came back.

I got PVCs when I lost weight and was in the best shape of my life. I was 25 lbs lighter than I am now, with a pulse in the mid 50s.

PVCs would shake me up. Heart goes thud-thud-thud-----BOOM/thud-thud

Yes, doctors all said "Shut up and don't worry about it."

I solved it by gaining weight and getting my pulse up in the low 60s. Ha ha. I still need to lose about 20. Maybe that's my good spot.

 

[mountainsoft]

My cardiologist said that while 20,000/day was a widely used threshold for interventional treatment (i.e., ablation) many years ago, these days much lower PVC burdens can be treated if both the patient and doctor agree about the risks and rewards. My doc said that ablation has become so safe and effective that it could be considered for burdens as low as 7% if the PVCs can't be suppressed by various medications or other first-line treatments. For some people, having to live with and just "get used to" a 7% burden would be a terrible nuisance, while others would learn to tune it out and go on with their lives. Having been in the 5% burden club myself several years ago for a few months, I can say that anything over 5% would be very hard to tolerate or just get used to. It's good to know ablation is there if things get too "bad".

The last time I wore a heart monitor (Feb 2023) I had 22873 SVE/PAC's per day for a 9.4% burden, with no PVC's and no AFIB. This was before I stopped eating bananas, so I don't know what it is now.

At that time I would have seriously considered ablation (which is terrifying to me since I've never had any kind of surgery), but now it's usually mild enough to tolerate most days. None of the docs ever recommended ablation to me, and I was too scared to ask.

 

[aja8888]

Two questions:

1. What's a PVC? (can't find it here in this thread) (In my ex line of w*rk it stood for polyvinyl chloride).

2. What is the difference between a PVC and a PAC?

I had SVT (supraventricular tricardia) 5 years ago and it got fixed with an ablation procedure. Otherwise, no KNOWN heart issues now.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Two questions:

1. What's a PVC? (can't find it here in this thread) (In my ex line of w*rk it stood for polyvinyl chloride).

2. What is the difference between a PVC and a PAC?

I had SVT (supraventricular tricardia) 5 years ago and it got fixed with an ablation procedure. Otherwise, no KNOWN heart issues now.

Premature Ventricular/Atrial Contractions.



I don't know what the clinical or diagnostic differences are, tbh (to be honest).

 

[JoeWras]

Well the premature contraction hits different chambers of the heart.

This is seen with an EKG to differentiate.

From what I hear, they feel very much the same to the human.

Another thing about my PVCs. It felt like the beat was missed, then suddenly caught up with two fast beats in progression. The medical experts tell me that is perception, and it is actually a beat too fast (premature).

When they mild, you don't feel them. If you are exercising, you feel them easier. If you have a whole string in a row, you feel them and even have other symptoms as others describe above.

 

[bmcgonig]

My cardiologist said that while 20,000/day was a widely used threshold for interventional treatment (i.e., ablation) many years ago, these days much lower PVC burdens can be treated if both the patient and doctor agree about the risks and rewards. My doc said that ablation has become so safe and effective that it could be considered for burdens as low as 7% if the PVCs can't be suppressed by various medications or other first-line treatments. For some people, having to live with and just "get used to" a 7% burden would be a terrible nuisance, while others would learn to tune it out and go on with their lives. Having been in the 5% burden club myself several years ago for a few months, I can say that anything over 5% would be very hard to tolerate or just get used to. It's good to know ablation is there if things get too "bad".

Good to know. I agree. When I used to get them they made me feel very anxious. Can’t imagine a 7% burden.

 

[bmcgonig]

Well the premature contraction hits different chambers of the heart.



This is seen with an EKG to differentiate.



From what I hear, they feel very much the same to the human.



Another thing about my PVCs. It felt like the beat was missed, then suddenly caught up with two fast beats in progression. The medical experts tell me that is perception, and it is actually a beat too fast (premature).



When they mild, you don't feel them. If you are exercising, you feel them easier. If you have a whole string in a row, you feel them and even have other symptoms as others describe above.

Agree with you except for me there was a big difference in how they felt.

 

[marko]

My cardiologist said that while 20,000/day was a widely used threshold for interventional treatment (i.e., ablation) many years ago, these days much lower PVC burdens can be treated if both the patient and doctor agree about the risks and rewards. .

Is my math correct? 20,000 a day would be about 14 PVCs a minute?
20,000/24/60

How do you even measure that?

 

[Sojourner]

Is my math correct? 20,000 a day would be about 14 PVCs a minute?
20,000/24/60

How do you even measure that?

20,000/day works out to roughly a 20% burden (i.e., 1 out of every 5 beats is "ectopic" [PVC or PAC]), since the typical person's heart beats about 100,000 times a day. The percentage is usually a better way of tracking it than "number of beats per day, or per minute" because everyone has a slightly different heart rate. What matters is how many you're having as a percentage of ALL your heart beats.

So, for a typical person with 70 beats per minute, a 20% burden would translate into about 14/minute. It's measured using a Holter monitor, which is like a miniature, portable EKG that attaches to your chest via several electrodes that record your heart's electrical activity over the course of one or more days.

 

[Aerides]

How do you even measure that?

You wear a holter monitor for 24 hours and it records everything. I hated it as I have sensitive skin and I got welts under all the points that were stuck on me - kinda like when you do an EKG in your doctors office, but all day and night.

I have PVC's about 3%, don't feel them, so for now just monitor.

 

[mountainsoft]

You wear a holter monitor for 24 hours and it records everything. I hated it as I have sensitive skin and I got welts under all the points that were stuck on me - kinda like when you do an EKG in your doctors office, but all day and night.

I wore a "Zio" heart monitor for three days (in February of this year, and again about two years ago). It just sticks to the chest, so no wires or anything to get in the way, but it's still annoying and does tend to pull on the skin over time. My skin was kind of red and sore after removing it, but not terrible.

The worst part for me was shaving off the chest hair, "abrading" with the included sandpaper, then wiping the raw skin with alcohol to clean for good contact. OUCH!

I typically have a repeating "trigeminy" pattern when my PAC's act up. That's two normal heart beats, followed by an early (premature) heartbeat, then a pause to get back on normal rhythm, and repeat. The next normal beat is usually more powerful since the heart has filled with blood during the pause. It can be kind of painful if I'm laying on my left side. Feels like I'm being punched in my side.

Since I stumbled on the banana thing, my PAC's tend to be more random with fewer repeating patterns. They're also much less intense when they do occur. Annoying, but tolerable.

 

[JoeWras]

Wore a Holter monitor in 1987. They were cruder.

It was like going to sleep with a 1lb tub of butter. My doctor told me to jog with it. I did. When the results came back, he said it was all messed up because of sweat. He said I had "7" PVCs. Was that 7% or 7? I don't remember. Got some different tests instead to be told all was OK.

 

[marko]

Had to wear one for a month last year. But you could unsnap it to take a shower or go for a swim.

It would send your data regularly via its own cell connection. Cool technology.

Got a bad rash though from the EKG pads that stuck to your skin. Actually wasn't a big PITA and it did the job.

This was to monitor a very weird tachycardia event.

 

[aja8888]

I wore a "Zio" heart monitor for three days (in February of this year, and again about two years ago). It just sticks to the chest, so no wires or anything to get in the way, but it's still annoying and does tend to pull on the skin over time. My skin was kind of red and sore after removing it, but not terrible.

The worst part for me was shaving off the chest hair, "abrading" with the included sandpaper, then wiping the raw skin with alcohol to clean for good contact. OUCH!

When I was being evaluated for the SVT a few years ago, I had to wear one of those for 14 days. Boy did that suck!

 

[bmcgonig]

Same, though I still experience it occasionally when lying down. I shared these Wellue BP2 logs with my doctor who was unconcerned.

Your second ekg looks like this here:

https://www.rnceus.com/ekg/ekgpat.html

 

[2retireearly]

I had an operation on my leg, last year. They gave me propofal as anesthesia. Before the operation, I had a preop. I was (and am?) in excellent condition. Low weight, low BP, low pulse, and steady heart beat. At the surgery center, they also commented on how healthy I was. They had my pulse and heart monitored all suring the surgery. All was fine. 2 weeks later, I thought I'd be a good citizen and donate blood. At the redcross center, my pulse was crazily erratic. They refused me, and I ran to my PCP. He seemed non lused, and gave me a EKG. there it showed I have PAC. I have no symptoms. He told me to stop all caffeine. I starte taking magnesium and coq10. There was no affect. This year, he calls it PVC..and also says I am fine. To not worry about it. He also said STOP taking my pulse so much. I was obsessed with doing it. And keeping records, to show when it might be better....it was good early in the morning. But, I wonder, did the propofal cause it? I have records showing one day I didn't have it, and then..I had it..and I have it all the time.Hummm...