Ford F150 transmission rupture

[GrayHare]

"The wheels were slipping a bit so I stopped, put it in reverse and moved back a few feet."

Since another report mentioned a similar failure following the use of reverse, such use of reverse is suspect. I don't mean the drivers' fault, but a design problem.

 

[travelover]

But you left off the rest of his description of the incident. The engine revved to 3500 rpm with no throttle input.

It wouldn't take much throttle input to rev it once the drivetrain was busted. I suspect there was a bit of throttle input but it might not have been obvious at that instant.

 

[NW-Bound]

Why wouldn't this be covered under the warranty?

Because they don't wanna.

 

[stephenson]

Why would using 4WDL, under these circumstances, put an enormous strain on anything?

 

[travelover]

Why would using 4WDL, under these circumstances, put an enormous strain on anything?

It greatly increases the torque to the wheels. But on snow, wheel slip should occur far before anything busts.

 

[JoeWras]

Out of curiosity I took a look at the NHTSA complaints on this vehicle. I didn't see anyone complain about your exact issue. However, one is close, and this guy got push-back that it is his fault too.

I PULLED OVER, SHUT OFF THE TRUCK, SAW A SMALL FIRE ON THE FRAME UNDER THE ENGINE. THE OTHER MOTORIST PUT IT OUT WITH A FIRE EXTINGUISHER.
...
MY INSURANCE COMPANY SENT AN ADJUSTER WHO CONCLUDED THAT THE FIRE WAS CAUSED BY A FAILED PINON SEAL IN THE DIFFERENTIAL, WHICH IS PART OF THE POWER TRAIN. THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT OF FORD MOTOR CO. (OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL) STATED THAT THE FIRE OCCURRED BECAUSE THE VEHICLE WAS DRIVEN ON PAVEMENT IN 4WD. I ASSERT THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE AND IS A TACTIC OF FORD MOTOR CO. TO AVOID HONORING THEIR PRODUCT WARRANTY OR TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR A POTENTIAL SAFETY HAZARD.

 

[NW-Bound]

It greatly increases the torque to the wheels. But on snow, wheel slip should occur far before anything busts.

+1

The OP said that the front differential broke. I have never owned a 4WD off-road vehicle, but searched for some info out of curiosity. It is said that the part that under the most stress on pavement is the front/rear transfer case. It locks together the front/rear axles, and does not allow them to rotate at different speeds.

When the wheels are not allowed to slip, such as when driving on dry pavement, driveline windup can cause the transfer case to break apart. The OP said his wheels did not have enough traction, which was the reason for him to engage 4WDL in the 1st place.

 

[Big_Hitter]

how is this NOT covered under warranty? did you run over something that damaged the xfer case?

 

[Fermion]

how is this NOT covered under warranty? did you run over something that damaged the xfer case?

That is what the service tech and service manager at the Ford dealer are claiming. My insurance company called today and is sending a independent investigator to inspect the case and make a determination (for the insurance company I guess).

In my opinion, it should only go one of two ways:

1) Ford is mistaken and the gears bound up and somehow cracked the aluminum case. Since I was not on dry pavement and had come to a stop and shifted correctly into 4L (and waited for the computer to say shift complete before putting into drive), I should be covered under warranty.

2) Something *did* hit the case somewhere on our trip and it just happened to break apart during the last bit where we were pulling into our driveway and using 4L. If this is the case, my $500 deductible comprehensive insurance policy should cover.

There is no way I am settling for another option without using some of my ample FIRE time in small claims court.

 

[travelover]

Just as a bit of background, when I was a test engineer at MegaMotors, we did brutal tests on the powertrains to guard against this kind of thing. One test was to hold the engine at maximum torque RPM and while loaded to GVW, pop the clutch. We'd do this multiple times in a row. Sometimes the driveshaft would shear and have to be beefed up. We'd also take it to maximum RPM in first and reverse gear, push in the clutch and let the engine return to idle, then re-pop the clutch to force the engine to spin up very fast.

There were similar tests for automatic transmissions that I did not perform, but my point is they are designed to take the worst accidental abuse a normal customer would throw at them. You don't just blow out a differential by engaging low range in snow. There is more to this and I don't think it was user error if the explanation is accurate.

 

[Walt34]

... but my point is they are designed to take the worst accidental abuse a normal customer would throw at them.

IOW, they do the best they can to make it "idiot proof".

 

[jazz4cash]

IOW, they do the best they can to make it "idiot proof".

I had a boss that used to say “problem is....they’re making better idiots nowadays. “

Seriously I agree with Travelover (and I even had a similar job). Doesn’t appear to be operator’s fault. The added detail about the “shift compete” indicator supports this also. Modern power trains generally use electronics to protect themselves.

 

[pj.mask]

To me, I don’t understand how the casing could blow apart from an impact that happened earlier.

I mean, if it was cracked, it would be weak but still needs pressure to break it. I don’t understand how shifting would create pressure (fluid pressure) to force a break. Alternatively, if there was enough damage that the casing was deformed enough to interfere with moving parts, I’d imagine it would have cracked and leaked all the fluid out already. Aluminum is not known for being ductile.

 

[Fermion]

Ok here is an update (not good news). Our insurance company sent out a independent investigator who took photos (gasp) and determined that the damage was NOT caused by a collision with an object and thus the claim is denied. The Ford dealer service manager now says the damage might have been caused by customer abuse which is the same thing as a collision, ie not covered by warranty. They said that rocking the truck back and forth in forward and reverse in 4L could possibly cause this type of damage. I told them exactly what we did (one shift into reverse with vehicle stopped and then one shift forward then having the rupture and the engine rev without foot pressing down on the accelerator). To me this does not sound like customer abuse and if it is, it should be spelled out in the manual that you cannot go into reverse in 4L and have a warning sticker to that effect near the switch.

I have re-contacted Ford customer service and they claim they will look into it more and contact the dealer again. Not holding my breath now.

Here is a picture the insurance guy took of the damage. Note that the part is way up inside the frame and the skid plates and things do not have any scuffs or scrapes.

 

[golfnut]

Makes me sick how a company can do this do a customer. Ford should stand behind its products.

 

[JoeWras]

Was never a Ford guy. After reading this and the NTHSA reports that describe similar blame to the customer, I'm probably not going to change.

 

[MRG]

Was never a Ford guy. After reading this and the NTHSA reports that describe similar blame to the customer, I'm probably not going to change.

I ditched an F-150, it frequently ate manual transmissions, Ford didn't have a clue. Our next Ford, an Escape, they eventually bought back as a lemon.

 

[pj.mask]

You can still preorder a cyber truck. My understanding is they don’t have these issues with their AWD system [emoji23]

 

[GravitySucks]

If that's abuse every residential snowplower here would have their Ford warranty voided.

 

[Sunset]

Ok here is an update (not good news). Our insurance company sent out a independent investigator who took photos (gasp) and determined that the damage was NOT caused by a collision with an object and thus the claim is denied. The Ford dealer service manager now says the damage might have been caused by customer abuse which is the same thing as a collision, ie not covered by warranty. They said that rocking the truck back and forth in forward and reverse in 4L could possibly cause this type of damage. I told them exactly what we did (one shift into reverse with vehicle stopped and then one shift forward then having the rupture and the engine rev without foot pressing down on the accelerator). To me this does not sound like customer abuse and if it is, it should be spelled out in the manual that you cannot go into reverse in 4L and have a warning sticker to that effect near the switch.

I have re-contacted Ford customer service and they claim they will look into it more and contact the dealer again. Not holding my breath now.

....

You can tell the Ford Dealer is a liar as he changed his story.... Since he would have inspected it the first time whatever reason he thought for the damage should not change.

I hope OP is documenting and recording all this information (emails, etc) so that if it comes to court, OP will have proof of how the dealer kept changing the story.

 

[jazz4cash]

I was involved with automatic transmission failure analysis and a trained eye can accurately determine the primary failure cause. Can’t tell much from the ruptured (differential?) housing but unless there are broken pieces inside it seems like the failure is road hazard, defective housing, or over speed. Rocking the vehicle excessively causes specific areas to overheat while other areas are not affected. I’d push for a detailed teardown inspection/failure analysis with dealer and factory personnel present. The dealer should be your advocate but it sounds like they are beholden to the factory. I still suspect an over speed condition (not user abuse).

 

[DrRoy]

About 3 years ago the tranny on our Freestar took a dump at 30,001 miles. Ford would do nothing.

Read up on the trans problems with the Focus. Ford put a knowingly bad design in the car and let customers mostly pay for it.

I used to work in a Ford plant as a vendor - I know how the sausage is made.

I will never own a Ford product ever again.

 

[ls99]

Amazing that a diff would destruct in 4WD. Guess they dont make 'em like they used to.

I have stripped out 2nd gear on my 79K20 chevy with manual tranny, sometime in the mid 1980ies.
Was driving on highway covered in snow, in 4WD. Being a a youngish smart a$$, I gunned it. The wheels dug thought the snow to pavement. Stripped out 2nd gear. Yeah, the engine did hit redline.
For the the rest of the winter I drove it using 1st and 3d. With 4.11 diff it worked reasonably well until spring time when the tranny was pulled and new 2nd gear installed. Lockily the broken teeth never migrated up into the rest of the works.

 

[Beachcomber]

I have the same truck, 2017 f-150 4x4 3.5 eco 10 spd transmission. I also have the heavy duty tow package along with other options.

I have driven in snow most of my life, and I have never used low range in snow or sand. I use it for pulling a trailer up a boat ramp, pulling a car out of a ditch and stuff like that, and I give it very little gas. That is a tremendous amount of torque and too much can break things.

I still don't think that should have broke in snow, but maybe the heat and snow had something to do with it. Ford should stand behind that truck since it is within the mileage and 3 year warranty.

My previous Dodge 2500 had a lifetime engine/drive line warranty and they would have had to cover that, IMO. I suggest the ford f-150 forums to see if they can offer recourse. Good luck!

 

[Texas Proud]

I do not know why some here are saying that even 4H is a problem... well it is not.. my Pilot is 4WDH all the time... at low speeds we can lock the differential to get more traction but that is not supposed to be used on hard surfaces...


BTW, Subaru is almost all 4WD...