Get a British passport?

[Meadbh]

I do not understand one of your stmts....

Why would a border guard hassle someone traveling on a non US passport if they show them their US passport It is not like the guard will see the other one where I assume the other travel is booked....

OR... the US citizen is trying to get into the US with their Canadian passport... and get hassled Well, just do not show that to them... and if they are hassling, what do you think will happen when the person give up their citizenship

I think this is probably the news story that Brett is referring to:

Many U.S. citizens in Canada are heading for the exits — but it could cost them | Financial Post

It's worth noting that some Canadians born in Canada are designated US citizens by virtue of the fact that they have a US parent. (Example: Ted Cruz, who was born in Calgary). Unlike Mr. Cruz, they may think of themselves as Canadian, never have lived in the US and never had a US passport. Yet they are still pulled in by Uncle Sam's tax net.

When Mr. Cruz recently renounced his Canadian citizenship for political reasons, he was not subject to any taxes in Canada.

 

[brett]

The issue is that they were US citizens travelling on a non US passport. They saw absolutely no reason to have two passports.

Every time they went through a US border the agents hassled them about being US citizens and travelling on a 'foreign' passport. It becomes tiresome.


The real issue is tax, the cost of having a professional complete the tax return, and the onerous burden of understanding the tax issues and being liable for any oversights.


As an example, the current mayor of London, England Boris Johnson happens to be an American citizen. He has not lived in the US since he was 5 years old. He recently sold his home in London. The IRS is now after him claiming that he owes tax on the capital gain realized from the sale of his home. Boris says, among other things....'not on your Nellie". He could in fact become the British PM in a few years. That would make for an interesting state visit. The reporting and tax liability is not based on whether you have ever lived or worked in the US, it is based purely on citizenship.


Because of the new FATCA regulations some financial institutions in Canada and in Europe are declining personal banking/investment business with people who declare themselves to be America citizens-dual or otherwise. Other financial institutions who understand the reporting and have the required IT and reporting resources are picking up this business. It gets extremely complicated with mutual fund reporting.


There are advantages and disadvantages to having dual citizenship.

 

[Texas Proud]

OK... a case I had not thought about...

Being a US citizen without a US passport... and coming into the US with a Canadian passport....


Do they really know who is and who is not a US citizen at the border

 

[theOAP]

Do they really know who is and who is not a US citizen at the border

A US place of birth gives the game away.

 

[theOAP]

Since this is a retirement site, we can keep this retirement income related.

Most living in the UK invest via savings, even with the £10,000+($15,000+) tax free limit on capital gains. Mutual funds are not nearly as popular as they are in the US, and fees are high.

The top rates for savings in the UK are around 1.5%. You may get higher if you invest with branches of India or Middle East concerns. The first £1,000 ($1,500) of interest is tax free per year. You also have a yearly tax free personal allowance of £10,600 ($15,900). Also available are tax free cash ISA's (basic savings; other types of ISA's are not recommended for US citizens due to the extensive and difficult US reporting requirements) with a max contribution of roughly £15,000/year ($22,500).

NS&I (National Savings and Investments) is run by the UK government. As an election tactic, the Tories (now in power) announced special 65+ Guaranteed Growth Bonds. There are two on offer; a max £10,000 bond for 1 year at 2.8%, and a max £10,000 bond for 3 years at 4.0%. You may invest in both up to the max amount. Only one problem from the Terms and Conditions:

General limitations Bonds cannot be:​

(a) purchased by a person, or on behalf of a person, who is either a US citizen and/or a US resident for tax purposes;

​

http://www.nsandi.com/files/published_files/asset/pdf/65-guaranteed-growth-bonds-brochure.pdf

​

I've been having a right go at NS&I, and after several attempts, have finally received permission to invest since I am resident in the UK and a citizen of the UK. In this case, dual citizenship helped out.​

 

[Texas Proud]

A US place of birth gives the game away.

I thought they were talking about people born with US parents in Canada...

I wonder how many US citizens born in the US but live in Canada and only have Canadian passport there are And of this group, how many even come to the US

Sorry for being off topic....

 

[Alan]

To the OP who was asking about obtaining a British passport. It is well documented that US citizens must depart and enter the US on a US passport. Other countries, like Australia, also have similar rules to the US.

The UK does not have this restriction although our daughter renewed her British passport a couple of years ago because she said she was fed up of being asked by the UK immigration officers if she had a British passport as her US passport, like ours, has place of birth ENGLAND. (We always enter the UK on our UK passport and the US on our US passport, it really is not a problem)

 

[Meadbh]

I thought they were talking about people born with US parents in Canada...

I wonder how many US citizens born in the US but live in Canada and only have Canadian passport there are And of this group, how many even come to the US

Sorry for being off topic....

I have read that approximately one million U.S. Citizens currently live in Canada. I imagine most of them were born in the U.S., but some were born in Canada or in other countries and have inherited U.S. Citizenship. There would certainly be several thousand who only have Canadian passports. The majority of Canadians visit the U.S. from time to time, so there would be a meaningful number of people in Canada who face these problems. It would indeed be ironic if a U.S. Citizen could not visit the U.S. The issue comes up sufficiently often that most of the major financial and accounting firms have produced guides for them to follow.

http://www.bdo.ca/en/Library/Servic...ens-and-other-US-Persons-Living-in-Canada.pdf

http://advisors.tdwaterhouse.ca/public/projectfiles/05db7a1d-6bc1-4548-8281-0a5cd5730a95.pdf

 

[Bamaman]

I could care less about having a British passport. Too many taxes over there.

I wouldn't mind having one from a country in the European Union, however. It'd be a great way to get around the Schengen Agreement where U.S. citizens cannot stay in the E.U. longer than 90 days out of 180 days.

There's a valley north of Lienz, Austria on the south end of the Grossglockner High Alpine Highway that I'd like to live in from May until October.

 

[Alan]

I could care less about having a British passport. Too many taxes over there.

I wouldn't mind having one from a country in the European Union, however. It'd be a great way to get around the Schengen Agreement where U.S. citizens cannot stay in the E.U. longer than 90 days out of 180 days.

There's a valley north of Lienz, Austria on the south end of the Grossglockner High Alpine Highway that I'd like to live in from May until October.

The only other passport the OP can get is a British passport, and Britain is part of the EU which gives full access to move around and stay as long as you like anywhere in the EU.

Holding a British passport means zero additional taxes, unless the holder settles in Britain.

 

[BarbWire]

Sorry to be chiming in late.

Five years ago I got a UK passport based on my father being a Welshman (he was naturalized a US citizen a year before I was born in New Mexico but he never renounced his UK citizenship; he erroneously thought that be becoming a US citizen he automatically lost his UK citizenship. And by the time he discovered he was still a UK citizen he was 88 and eligible for a free passport! But he didn't want to turn in his old 1940s passport, and he wasn't going to travel. But I digress...).

Note that I had to prove that I was the legitimate, biological offspring of the UK citizen.

I had to gather my ORIGINAL birth certificate (issued within a month of my birth, not a copy nor a new document: the UK doesn't want to risk altered birth certificates for adopted children). I also needed my father's birth registration papers, my parents' marriage license/certificate (to prove I was allegedly the legitimate offspring of their union), and a couple of other documents. Then I had to present the forms to a "person of standing" such as a physician or lawyer to attest that they believed the statements in the application were true. The lawyer neighbor who has known our family for 25 years signed.

Shipped it off to the UK passport office in Washington DC with photos and about $250, swapped a couple of emails with them about my father's immigration to the US and naturalization, and eventually received a UK/EU passport.

I do not pay UK taxes, and if I immigrate there I will not have NHS coverage. So be it. I will still have to pay US income taxes no matter where I live. The best part is that, with an EU passport, I am not bound by the Schengen Area rules, and can spend as much time as I like in the EU (subject to individual country rules about long term residency by EU nationals from other countries).

I haven't found any downside. And since my US and UK passports are each good for 10 years, and offset by 5 years, I've got a bit of a backup if I find myself needing at least 6 months left a passport to travel.

As Alan said: exit/enter the US with the US passport. Enter/exit the UK/EU with the UK passport. For other countries, do what makes sense.

 

[Peter]

BarbWire, if you moved to the UK permanently, you would have NHS coverage. So would anyone, UK passport or not.

 

[Nemo2]

Interesting thread.......I was born in England, (when it was still part of Great Britain, and nobody said 'UK'); escaped at the earliest opportunity to Australia, (unfortunately I neglected to acquire an Oz passport at the time), and came to Canada just over 50 years ago.

I travel on/carry a Canadian passport and can't envision any circumstances under which I'd apply for a 'UK' one.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I travel on/carry a Canadian passport and can't envision any circumstances under which I'd apply for a 'UK' one.

Some of the ERs and semi-ERs here are interested in living or doing slow travel in EU countries. I have checked into it a bit and I think we could live in some of the EU locations in the Caribbean. Countries like France also seem to have limits on earned income for non-citizens, even for those with digital nomad kind of part-time jobs. So the right of abode in the EU is kind of a cool option to have. I don't really see any downside. YMMV.

 

[Nemo2]

YMMV.

I understand......my comment(s) were purely of a personal nature, since it's unlikely DW and I would be spending extended time anywhere beyond the duration permitted on our existing passports and/or a trip across a border and back in order to start the clock again.

 

[FIREd]

We have been thinking about getting a EU passport for DW. Turns out, when we got hitched 15 years ago, I screwed up the final step of the convoluted process to make our marriage official back in my home country. So, as far as they are concerned, I am still single! And she cannot apply until I correct the situation. Although I wonder if she could still get a EU passport based on the fact that her mother was born in a EU country - and as far as I know never renounced her citizenship when she moved to the US. It seems possible in some EU countries but not in others, so we may have to look into that.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We have been thinking about getting a EU passport for DW. Turns out, when we got hitched 15 years ago, I screwed up the final step of the convoluted process to make our marriage official back in my home country. So, as far as they are concerned, I am still single! And she cannot apply until I correct the situation. Although I wonder if she could still get a EU passport based on the fact that her mother was born in a EU country - and as far as I know never renounced her citizenship when she moved to the US. It seems possible in some EU countries but not in others, so we may have to look into that.

That may be possible and also some countries have fast track to citizenship for spouses - but they usually require continued residence for a certain number of years.

 

[FIREd]

That may be possible and also some countries have fast track to citizenship for spouses - but they usually require continued residence for a certain number of years.

My country only requires two things for citizenship through marriage (at least for people like us who are not residents):

1) having been married to a citizen for at least 4 years and being able to prove that we live together. Check.
2) having a good knowledge of our language (spoken and written). Hum, DW needs to work a bit more on that.

 

[Alan]

BarbWire, if you moved to the UK permanently, you would have NHS coverage. So would anyone, UK passport or not.

+1

People settling from outside the EU have to be resident for a period (I think) but for sure a UK citizen is entitled to the NHS on day 1 that they arrive in the country as a permanent resident.

I can understand BarbWire's father not wanting to give up his old passport, but you always get the old, expired passport returned and I have my old big thick and heavy passports going back to my original British passport in 1976.

 

[BarbWire]

That may be possible and also some countries have fast track to citizenship for spouses - but they usually require continued residence for a certain number of years.

I have a friend who is trying to establish Italian citizenship based on parentage. Their process is more complex, takes much longer and is more expensive: for example he needs pricey "official" translations into Italian of all non-Italian documents (eg birth certificates) and that ain't cheap.

He's rather jealous of the UK process, which is insanely simple by comparison.

 

[BarbWire]

+1

People settling from outside the EU have to be resident for a period (I think) but for sure a UK citizen is entitled to the NHS on day 1 that they arrive in the country as a permanent resident.

That's good to know about the NHS, though I doubt I will become an official permanent UK resident any time soon (despite my absurd premium under the ACA for maternity care and other coverage I don't need...oops, wrong forum for that rant). For the next few years I'd like to spend half my time in Europe and half my time in, oh, I dunno, Thailand and Indonesia ....

In all seriousness, though, I suppose I should figure out where it makes more sense to spend time in an Alzheimer's home or nursing home: US or UK. I suppose it is good to have options...

 

[Dd852]

Just because you can...doesn't mean you should

I am a dual US/UK citizen. I became naturalized in the UK when I lived there and bought property; for me, the key was being able to return and live and work there without worrying about visas whenever I wanted. I'd say it was the right decision for me.

But if I didn't have property in the UK, and I had no desire to work in Europe, and I had no future plans to rely on the NHS, I think the hassle and expense wouldn't be worth it. Passports cost about 82 GBP ($120) now...but all governments around the world use rising fees to supplement taxes and who knows what it will cost next time around.

Unless you live there, taxes aren't an issue, which is great (just don't spend too long there in any one year! Here's the official guidance for when you fall into the UK tax net: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...0506_RDR3_govuk_hyperlink__updated_078500.pdf)

But the bottom line is really what do you gain? The list of countries where US and UK citizens can travel without visas is basically overlapping. And US citizens get six months visa free entry to the UK -- you just can't work.

So that brings us back to work... if you think you'll want to work in the EU, go for it. Otherwise, I think it's no huge harm if it is something you really want for sentimental reasons. But no huge gain either.

 

[jim584672]

Just an update, I am the OP.

Waiting on my US passport now. Had to get my long form birth certificate showing parents full names, that took 2 months. Will send the UK application soon.

My thinking is, you never know how things will turn out and I would like the option to escape the US if needed. And besides I think it is cool to have. Might move there for a year, it would be an adventure.

 

[brett]

We have/had certificates of patriality for the UK, as does my son. We got ours years ago when we were 'vanning it' through Europe. Our son got his a few years go whe. He was working his way through Europe. He was very thankful to have it.

We have parents/grandparents born in the UK and we are citizens of a Commonwealth country. It gives us just about everything except the right to vote. Our son got off the plane and started work within days. His employer processed his National Insurance forms and he was working straight away. Never had occasion to access the social systems or the health systems though.

It never hurts to have options.

 

[languagefan]

British passport is the best passport for travelling on the planet, and it allows you free travel, immigration, work, and investment across all EU countries.
A definte yes is the answer if you could get one.
Being British doesn't entitle you to the NHS, you need to be a paying national insurance contributor to be entitled to it.
Good luck