Hot Flushes

[antmary]

I started out with bio-identical hormones. At the time I had a high-stress job in the health field, and it wouldn't do to have a hot flash in the middle of a therapy session. My doctor was holistically oriented, and her mentoring me through that phase really helped me!

After about 7 years, I started taking an herbal tincture from HerbPharm (an herb company from Oregon). You can order online, and the products are excellent. They have a menopause formula, and the hot flashes, mood swings, etc. eased, and I mellowed out.

I know many women who said they would not touch any hrt - until they were in the midst of menopause. I have found that both the pharmaceutical world and the world of botanical medicine offer gifts, and can work well together.

 

[EveryLady]

Dangermouse:

If you aren't satisfied with using acupuncture, consider this article describing the use of neurontin (generic name, gabapentin) to help with hot flashes:

PERSONAL HEALTH; A Chance Find, and Voilà! Goodbye, Hot Flashes. Hello, Sleep. - New York Times

I had been prescribed gabapentin (low dose of 300 mg, taken at night) for periodic nerve pain from overstressed muscles. My discovering that increasingly problematic hot flashes simultaneously disappeared was a pleasant surprise. I hadn't known they might. Using black cohosh, remifemin, and Chinese herbs had not been effective plus would be much more expensive over the long haul. My SIL was prescribed gabapentin directly for her hot flashes but unfortunately received no relief.

And to follow-up on the estrogen thread, another recent NY Times article discussed the possibility that estrogen can be highly beneficial to a woman who starts it in her 50s while having the reverse effect on a woman 10 years older. I've only bookmarked and then skimmed the article intIending to plow through it later. Think one of the hypotheses is that some of the negative findings on estrogen use for women just at menopause may (except for breast cancer) may be an artifact caused by the inclusion of proportionally more older women in order to ensure that were an adequate number of disease events within the entire study group.

The Estrogen Dilemma - NYTimes.com

 

[DangerMouse]

Acupuncture is totally worthless crap. You might as well have someone dance around you waving feathers and screaming like a chicken.

Actually I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. I am a great believer in complementary therapies, I was surprised when I came to California how they really have failed to embrace AT, the first solution to everything seems to be to reach for the prescription pad.

However, I have previously had acupuncture for other issues and it has done nowt, so I was skeptical going in. To my amazement, after 3 treatments I think there is some improvement in my condition. Now you could say it is mind over matter, but I don't believe that to be the case, because a hot flush is not something you bring on or rid yourself of, by the power of positive thinking. It's not something that is on my mind until it happens. I know it's not the herbs, because I rarely take them. I was thinking last night there is some improvement because normally when I am watching the telly I flick the blanket off on and my legs a dozen times. Last night, not at all. Same during the day, normally I have my hoodie off and on an annoying amount of times. Have been in a constant status of everything remaining on for the past couple of days.

Not to say the flushes have gone. Occasionally I can feel my body building up to flush, and I am getting some flushes, but they are just not to the degree they were before and not the number they were before. I will see how it goes the more treatment I have.

I did read that NY Times article which is what pushed me into going to my Dr about the flushes to start with. It made very interesting reading.

 

[Martha]

However, I have previously had acupuncture for other issues and it has done nowt, so I was skeptical going in. To my amazement, after 3 treatments I think there is some improvement in my condition. Now you could say it is mind over matter, but I don't believe that to be the case, because a hot flush is not something you bring on or rid yourself of, by the power of positive thinking. It's not something that is on my mind until it happens.

If something works, great but keep in mind that correlation is not proof of causation. Interestingly, I have read that there can be a strong placebo effect (IIRC, maybe 20 to 30%) in hot flash treatment studies. So yes, hot flashes can respond to placebo treatment.

The interesting question is whether treatments that are not supported by research and are not theoretically sound should nevertheless be promoted if they work for some simply due to placebo responses. I think not because that undermines the integrity of science and it would be ethically suspect. But maybe a closer question is whether it is fine to just ignore such treatments and not argue against their use provided that the treatment isn't something that could be harmful or if serious harm could result by avoiding legitimate medical treatment.

 

[tmm99]

Interesting thread!

I was surprised when I came to California how they really have failed to embrace AT, the first solution to everything seems to be to reach for the prescription pad.

Dangermouose,

Which state/city did you come from? I live in the valley too but I see acupuncurist offices everywhere here. Even my health insurance (from work) covers acupuncture treatments.

 

[ksr]

Ok I had enough of the hot flushes so I went to my Dr to discuss my options. She went thru the medication channels but also suggested acupuncture.

I have decided to go down the acupuncture route before I try any of the drug options.

I have a friend who is a retired medical librarian (at NIH). She told me that there was a strong political push a few years ago to research a number of alternative therapies, including acupuncture. The results were inconclusive for all the other therapies except for acupuncture - the results for acupuncture were positive. I hope it works out for you - it certainly sounds preferable to taking drugs.

 

[DangerMouse]

Interesting thread!


Dangermouose,

Which state/city did you come from? I live in the valley too but I see acupuncurist offices everywhere here. Even my health insurance (from work) covers acupuncture treatments.

We came to California via London. We originally went to San Diego but are now in Los Gatos. My health insurance covers acupuncture, on a $60 treatment I have a copay of $42. The acupuncturist I use was recommended by my physician who I have great respect for. Without a doubt she is the best Dr I have ever seen. She listens and her mantra is if it is not good enough for her, it is not good enough for her patients. She is a breast cancer survivor and when she was on tamoxifen she had bad flushes. Using acupuncture she was able to reduce the flushes, not eliminate but get them to a manageable level.

I have a friend who is a retired medical librarian (at NIH). She told me that there was a strong political push a few years ago to research a number of alternative therapies, including acupuncture. The results were inconclusive for all the other therapies except for acupuncture - the results for acupuncture were positive. I hope it works out for you - it certainly sounds preferable to taking drugs.

I find that as I age I could easily become nothing more than a rattling pill bottle. I have to take medication for thyroid, I have high cholesterol which I am trying to fix thru diet, exercise and vitamins - I will know if I have been successful when I have the next round of blood tests. I just feel as if I want to try other options before I submit to paying drug companies for the rest of my life. It actually makes me angry how quickly people turn to gastric bypass surgery or take medication for the onset of diabetes instead of taking control of their situation and fixing what they can thru natural treatments and I include diet and exercise as natural treatments.

 

[EveryLady]

I've used acupuncture several times. Read somewhere that, in contrast to Western medicine with a tradition of peer review and publication of findings, Chinese practitioners have at least in the past kept private effective techniques. There can be differences in how needles are inserted and other factors; plus even though I'd guess the meridians of energy are agreed upon some seem to use different points. So think having a negative or inclusive experience with one acupuncturist may not be a valid predictor.

My very first session I was bored out of my mind and felt ridiculous. But then read that the impact of acupuncture can be cumulative; found that true for me. Too, the value of acupuncture can lie in the diagnostics. Not necessarily needed for hot flashes - there the cause is pretty clear!!! But many are faced with less specific issues. Here, older Chinese-trained practitioners whose training included an medical degree can be superb.

Not sure why it can work; may well be the placebo effect. There have been, however, lots of fascinating articles in the last few years showing how that effect can be shown in scans to alter the brain in ways comparable to drugs (particularly for pain). Maybe the reassurance, body contact, and soothing music enhance the impact. But if it works ...

 

[EveryLady]

My health insurance covers acupuncture, on a $60 treatment I have a copay of $42. The acupuncturist I use was recommended by my physician who I have great respect for.

I, too, started acupuncture at the recommendation of my neurologist. Would be using acupuncture now (tinnitus from an old ear infection just flared again) but have switched health plans and it's no longer covered. Here a treatment is about $100. So I turned to a cheap generic drug that has minimal side effects that helping a lot. Think throwing the kitchen sink (including alternative, exercise etc.) at a potential problem early can hopefully prevent issues. If not, at least tried ...

Oh - meant to mention Japanese acupuncture. So different from Chinese - the needles are inserted much more lightly and primarily along the spine. It had a dramatically different impact. Total relaxation - it was a few minutes before I could walk. Had heard of that happening with Chinese acupuncture but had never before experienced it.

 

[Khan]

I've used acupuncture several times. Read somewhere that, in contrast to Western medicine with a tradition of peer review and publication of findings, Chinese practitioners have at least in the past kept private effective techniques. There can be differences in how needles are inserted and other factors; plus even though I'd guess the meridians of energy are agreed upon some seem to use different points. So think having a negative or inclusive experience with one acupuncturist may not be a valid predictor.

There are no 'meridians'.

My very first session I was bored out of my mind and felt ridiculous. But then read that the impact of acupuncture can be cumulative; found that true for me. Too, the value of acupuncture can lie in the diagnostics. Not necessarily needed for hot flashes - there the cause is pretty clear!!! But many are faced with less specific issues. Here, older Chinese-trained practitioners whose training included an medical degree can be superb.

Not sure why it can work; may well be the placebo effect. There have been, however, lots of fascinating articles in the last few years showing how that effect can be shown in scans to alter the brain in ways comparable to drugs (particularly for pain). Maybe the reassurance, body contact, and soothing music enhance the impact. But if it works ...

And maybe they are the 'impact'.

 

[Martha]

I have a friend who is a retired medical librarian (at NIH). She told me that there was a strong political push a few years ago to research a number of alternative therapies, including acupuncture. The results were inconclusive for all the other therapies except for acupuncture - the results for acupuncture were positive. I hope it works out for you - it certainly sounds preferable to taking drugs.

The positive results for acupuncture are not conclusive and may be due to placebo or publication bias. Many studies are poorly designed and double blinding is challenging. The current conclusion is that more research is needed. But the risks are low so whatever floats your boat.

There was a political push to research alternative therapies through the NIH National Center for Alternative and Complementary Medicine. Everything I have read has shown that no definitive results have come from any of that research. CSI | The Ongoing Problem with the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine

 

[W2R]

As for me, I wouldn't pay good money for acupuncture. But if someone else thinks that it helps them, and if it is harmless, personally I see no problem with it. This is assuming that the acupuncture is done in addition to conventional medical care, not as a substitute for conventional medical care.

 

[kyounge1956]

As for me, I wouldn't pay good money for acupuncture. But if someone else thinks that it helps them, and if it is harmless, personally I see no problem with it. This is assuming that the acupuncture is done in addition to conventional medical care, not as a substitute for conventional medical care.

I don't think I'd let anyone stick me full of needles either, but IMO there should not be any requirement to try conventional medicine first or together with alternative treatments, at least not for a non-lethal condition like hot flashes. I have used homeopathy in the past (for something else). I had good results with one condition I tried homeopathy for, and zip with the other. I read up on prescription medications for the one that worked and the potential side effects scared me to pieces. I'm glad there was nothing requiring me to try conventional medicine before, or in conjunction with, homeopathy. I think I'd rather have put up with the condition than take that medication I was so nervous about, but I'm glad I didn't have to make that choice. The condition that didn't improve with homeopathy was eventually treated successfully with conventional medication.

Maybe the results I got from homeopathy were a placebo effect, but so what? If a treatment works and does no harm, why shouldn't it be used, regardless of the mechanism of operation (i.e. whether it is a placebo or a "real" effect)?

 

[Khan]

The positive results for acupuncture are not conclusive and may be due to placebo or publication bias. Many studies are poorly designed and double blinding is challenging. The current conclusion is that more research is needed. But the risks are low so whatever floats your boat.

There was a political push to research alternative therapies through the NIH National Center for Alternative and Complementary Medicine. Everything I have read has shown that no definitive results have come from any of that research. CSI | The Ongoing Problem with the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine

The congresscritters who pushed to set up NCAM recently testified that they were upset that procedures kept being proved not effective.