I hate Genworth

[youbet]

Just be aware there's no guarantee you'll be getting skilled care actually at the CCRC.

.

That's true ncbill. As DW and I have shopped Type A CCRC's the past couple of years (one visited many times), that's our #1 concern. If one of us needs SNF care, we don't want the other driving or busing to visit. That's something DW did for 4+ years to visit her mother multiple times a week and it wasn't fun, especially in Chicago winters.

We've found that the CCRC's we are interested in keep statistics regarding outsourcing SNF care and those numbers can be reviewed and discussed. And their policies should be readily available and discussed too.

We've also found that multiple visits and involvement with current residents really helps to get the inside scoop on this type of thing. DW has become casual friends with a couple of gals when they invited her to attend quilting club meetings after meeting at a lunch. It's amazing how much the residents know about what's going on. Something negative going on, like a girlfriend whose spouse is outsourced to an outside SNF and having trouble getting transferred back, is well known and discussed.

If you can't get a good handle on how a CCRC you're considering handles the ebb and flow of SNF capacity, that would be a place I'd cross off my list.

 

[braumeister]

If you can't get a good handle on how a CCRC you're considering handles the ebb and flow of SNF capacity, that would be a place I'd cross off my list.

Good point. I've been investigating CCRCs very seriously this year and have seen this issue come up. Makes it easier to winnow the field. I started with a list of 13 of them to check out, and that is now down to five. Those five have been very transparent about everything, which eases my mind a lot.

 

[rtroxel]

What would be the usefulness of finding out you paid them $X dollars ?

Obviously, I need to know how much of my money they are holding, in case I need to go into an assisted living facility.

Roy

 

[REWahoo]

If you simply "dropped" your LTCi coverage, what makes you think they are holding money for you? Was there some provision in the policy providing for a residual value if you canceled?

 

[rtroxel]

If you simply "dropped" your LTCi coverage, what makes you think they are holding money for you? Was there some provision in the policy providing for a residual value if you canceled?

Are you saying I can't withdraw the money if I need it, to pay long-time care bills? I thought that was the deal. If not, I'll have to make two phone calls - one to Genworth and the other to my attorney.

Roy

 

[REWahoo]

Are you saying I can't withdraw the money if I need it, to pay long-time care bills? I thought that was the deal. If not, I'll have to make two phone calls - one to Genworth and the other to my attorney.

Roy

You should read your policy to understand the terms. The LTC policies I am familiar with are similar to term life insurance in that there is no payout once the policy is terminated.

 

[athena53]

Are you saying I can't withdraw the money if I need it, to pay long-time care bills? I thought that was the deal. If not, I'll have to make two phone calls - one to Genworth and the other to my attorney.

I'd read the contract first. Unless it's got some sort of investment/cash value component, you may have forfeited all coverage if you stopped paying premiums. It just goes into the pot to pay the claims of others whose policy is still in force, similar to term life insurance.

 

[Golden sunsets]

I dropped my Genworth coverage about 15 months ago, due to the constant increase in payments. Although Genworth still holds all the money I have paid them, I have never received a statement from them as to exactly how much that amount is.

Should I contact them to find out? Has anyone here done that? If so, were they cooperative?

Thanks,

Roy in New Mexico

You must have received a notice when you stopped paying them. Was it a termination notice?

 

[foxfirev5]

The more I look at LTC the more I realize if you you need it you are eventually SOL.

 

[Koolau]

I dropped my Genworth coverage about 15 months ago, due to the constant increase in payments. Although Genworth still holds all the money I have paid them, I have never received a statement from them as to exactly how much that amount is.

Should I contact them to find out? Has anyone here done that? If so, were they cooperative?

Thanks,

Roy in New Mexico

Yes, Genworth sends a bill each year, but no statement. If I want to know something, I have to call. It takes a while, but you can get what you need. They are required to share your info with you. It's a pain...

 

[REWahoo]

The more I look at LTC the more I realize if you you need it you are eventually SOL.

Not sure if you are referring to insurance, but take that aspect out of your statement and I couldn't agree more!

 

[mf15]

Not my favorite company the increases every year are getting a bit much. But check your policy, we have a rider that if one dies, there are no more premiums for the surviving spouse. I almost used that rider last year. LOL But still here after a year..
Oldmike

 

[Golden sunsets]

I have my Genworth LTCI policy for 13 years and I finally received the first increase notification last month. My policy pays $9K per month currently for 5 years at maximum level, at 3% compounded increase each year. Increase was for 10%, with my premiums going up from $1,166.52 to $1,283.17. This increase is small potatoes and I am sure I will see future increases.

RetiredHappy; Your numbers are meaningless without knowing your age. If you're 50 and been paying in for 13 years, that's one data point and maybe not such a good deal, but if your 75 now with that sort of daily allowance, inflation factor and premium, you've got a great deal. It's all relative. My guess is you were younger than the typical age when you signed up.

 

[Aerides]

You should read your policy to understand the terms. The LTC policies I am familiar with are similar to term life insurance in that there is no payout once the policy is terminated.

Yes... is this a savings account or an insurance policy? You cancel your policy and then incur an event...doesn't usually end up with anyone getting paid.

 

[EastWest Gal]

I dropped my Genworth coverage about 15 months ago, due to the constant increase in payments. Although Genworth still holds all the money I have paid them, I have never received a statement from them as to exactly how much that amount is.

Should I contact them to find out? Has anyone here done that? If so, were they cooperative?

Thanks,

Roy in New Mexico

We dropped Genworth last month. They had an option called Contingent Non-forfeiture. It means we have access to use what we paid into it, which for us is about $73K. We switched to NY Life. Less years of coverage, but but closer to what we are likely to use. It also includes home care, not just nursing home/memory care. I think you should call Genworth and check if you have that option available. I think we were over-insured.

 

[isisdave]

We have Genworth and are in year 2 of a 3-year increase plan. There were, i think, three options when they announced that raise: one was to accept it of course, a second was to cut benefits to a point where the premium was just about the same, and the third was to stop contributing, in which case there WERE some residual benefits. That deal I think was limited to what we paid in, so it wasn't too attractive to us.

When we bought this at age 55 or so in about 2005, we thought it bordered on the "too good to be true" level. It's still more affordable than paying for LTC oneself, I think. The premiums are like $5600 a year for two of us and that's OK for now.

Our plan has the premium waiver when first person dies, and was unlimited as to term, with 5% COLA annually. 180 day exclusion. And you could have in-home care if appropriate, and maybe some home modifications (bath, ramps, handholds, etc).

 

[EastWest Gal]

Our premiums doubled+ in 10 years. We chose lesser options twice to keep the premium under control. Despite increased premiums, the max payout stayed the same. When I called to discuss this, the worker said something about the increasing cost of “medical care” and I pointed out that LTC was not medical care and that our max payout was the same as it was 10 years ago. Their line about increased costs flew in the face of the reality that there were more claims than anticipated. The worker on the phone was left speechless.

Genworth ignores its clients, in favor of its shareholders. Glad we are done.

 

[RobbieB]

Pops had Genworth. They did everything possible to avoid payment, a real gauntlet.

Never Genworth. Never. I'd rather die in the street under a bridge living in a cardboard box.

 

[rtroxel]

All,

First, let me thank you for the quick replies.

I did check the letter sent to me by Genworth after I stopped my premium payments. They told me my benefit dollars are available through the Contingent Non-forfeiture.

Roy

 

[Sunset]

All,

First, let me thank you for the quick replies.

I did check the letter sent to me by Genworth after I stopped my premium payments. They told me my benefit dollars are available through the Contingent Non-forfeiture.

Roy

That's good, if I'm interpreting it correctly. Now of course you need to find out what are the "benefit dollars".

 

[badatmath]

I don't have Genworth but I do have a non forfeiture clause that is always included when they send me a premium increase notice that gives me the amount paid in. They really make it clear that you could cancel which of course is what they want. . . . IIRC it was not much use. I think when I signed up it was an "extra" not automatic.

 

[Koolau]

Our premiums doubled+ in 10 years. We chose lesser options twice to keep the premium under control. Despite increased premiums, the max payout stayed the same. When I called to discuss this, the worker said something about the increasing cost of “medical care” and I pointed out that LTC was not medical care and that our max payout was the same as it was 10 years ago. Their line about increased costs flew in the face of the reality that there were more claims than anticipated. The worker on the phone was left speechless.

Genworth ignores its clients, in favor of its shareholders. Glad we are done.

Get your money back. Buy their stock.

 

[athena53]

Get your money back. Buy their stock.

I wouldn't do that, either.

About fifteen years ago I was working for an insurance sub of GE (not Genworth). They sold one sub to Berkshire and the rest to a large Swiss insurer- except that the Swiss insurer didn't want to buy Genworth. The Swiss were pretty savvy.

 

[Koolau]

Get your money back. Buy their stock.

I wouldn't do that, either.

Sorry, I just always feel compelled to "hawk" stocks who's business "can't lose" because they are 1) mean and nasty 2) Exploit shortages 3) favor shareholders over the public - and especially over their customers.

Of course, my point is that there really are no such stocks though it would seem so from time to time. Think big Oil, big Pharma, big Insurance, etc. They get all the bad publicity, but their prices are up and down just like every other stock but YMMV.

 

[athena53]

Sorry, I just always feel compelled to "hawk" stocks whose business "can't lose" because they are 1) mean and nasty 2) Exploit shortages 3) favor shareholders over the public - and especially over their customers.

Of course, my point is that there really are no such stocks though it would seem so from time to time. Think big Oil, big Pharma, big Insurance, etc. They get all the bad publicity, but their prices are up and down just like every other stock but YMMV.

One travel writer I follow once said that when complaints against airlines are up because of the crappy way they treat passengers, it's time to buy.

Genworth is far more complicated. They introduced an innovative product but had to make assumptions about when people would enter LTC, how long they'd live, what the lapse rates would be etc. with little real-world data. It's reasonable to assume that LTC is more likely to be bought by people who expect to need it, that people might enter a bit earlier if they're insured (although they do have to prove need, but maybe in the past a family member might have cared for them), that people who hang on through premium increases are the ones who think they're more likely to need it....quantifying all that is tricky and Genworth was over-optimistic, in hindsight. So, they're sitting on a huge liability with a wide range of possible values. That would scare most buyers away.