Indigent Parent With Failing Health Who Doesn't Want to Help Themself

[daylatedollarshort]

Because we don't live in a fantasy world is the reason I advocate some love and empathy rather that the "stay clear you might be dragged down" approach. When people need help it should be given.....this is a family! Feeling guilty about something is generally a sign that you might not be doing the right thing, sometimes altruism is the right course especially with family. The OP needs to do what makes them feel right. I would advocate trying to build up the family relationship....I'm an atheist, but in matters like this I ask myself, what would Jesus do?

Some parents beat their kids, starve them and put them in cages. Child protective services are active in every state in the U.S and seem to have to have no shortage of work. So should those adult kids take their kids to see their grandparents and love and nurture them in their old ages? There is no one size fits all answer. It depends on the the family. I think it is a personal decision. Unless we've walked in freqflyers shoes we should not judge and add on guilt - just offer supportive advice.

 

[Chuckanut]

Crazy Makers. They mess up their lives then try to shift the guilt to others if they are not helped. Often they suffer from cognitive dissonance in order to justify their bad decisions.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Crazy Makers. They mess up their lives then try to shift the guilt to others if they are not helped. Often they suffer from cognitive dissonance in order to justify their bad decisions.

I think of it as a vortex of insanity but crazy makers is also a good term. It is very difficult to climb out and very easy to get sucked back in.

 

[Walt34]

There really is no right or wrong answer, so much depends on the people , the relationships, and the resources available. If the OP feels he should help and can do so without taking from his own family then agreed paying a routine bill directly like electric could help. As noted that does free up those funds to be squandered elsewhere.

Probably of more help is getting social services involved and seeing what help is available there. People can change when they really want to. But they have to want to and sometimes have to be shown the way.

There is almost certainly no future in just giving her money. An idea from another thread about a relative wanting to borrow money was to insist in seeing their budget. "If you want me to be your banker I'm going to act like one." If they won't do that then they don't really need the money.

 

[MRG]

Nun you are a very caring person. That shows clearly. I really wish that love and family support were the answer.

In my family we had two suicides due to drug and alcohol addiction. They were close to family, children, parents. They had every resource they could want right in their home town. So close they chose to end their lives at home.

The next generation two nephews are incarcerated for 5-10 years for drug related actions. They too had all the family support, and love, in their homes.

One nephew's mother has spent years in Al-Anon, a great organization. She's fully prepared that upon her sons release there's a very good chance he will relapse and die. One thing she's certain of is upon his release he will never to come home to live. That may sound harsh, but in recovery work it's considered necessary for all parties. In 12 step programs there is a saying; There's 3 ways out 1. Sober up 2. Get locked up 3. Get covered up(die).

I really hope you or any family never go through any of the horrors associated with these diseases.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[robnplunder]

Because we don't live in a fantasy world is the reason I advocate some love and empathy rather that the "stay clear you might be dragged down" approach. When people need help it should be given.....this is a family! Feeling guilty about something is generally a sign that you might not be doing the right thing, sometimes altruism is the right course especially with family. The OP needs to do what makes them feel right. I would advocate trying to build up the family relationship....I'm an atheist, but in matters like this I ask myself, what would Jesus do?

I hear you. Some people can do this and others just can't. It really depends on their culture, upbringing, personality, and relationship with family members (in this case, child and mother). We really have no background on the OP to give specific advice. We are hearing from just one side - a fellow ER.org member whom we are often quick to rally around.

To OP - my DM & DD are living separately on $800 SS + my monthly allowance to each. I really have no business doing that given their past. They were terrible parents. But they have given me one gift that I can never repay no matter how much $$$ I have. It is "life." For that, I am eternally grateful and do the things I do FOR them.

 

[MichaelB]

As John Bradford wrote
There but for the grace of God go I ..

 

[FreqFlyer]

I really appreciate the responses. This anecdote might give some insight into my thoughts and the situation I found when I visited.

My brother complained (prior to my visit) that mom's townhouse is dark, the soft surfaces reek of smoke and are stained/gross (carpet, upholstery) and the walls are in urgent need to paint and something to get the nicotine stains out. I suggested he get quotes for a steam clean of the upholstery, painting the walls and carpet from Home Depot and I'd be able to pay to help improve her environment (cheer the place up a bit).

During my visit it was just excuses as to why he hadn't done any legwork (carpet install will be a disruption, maybe wood floors would be better.. yada yada).

I flew home so frustrated/exasperated as to why he hadn't done anything (I'm sure she knows what I offered and didn't help either). I thought - if it was me (unemployed) I'd buy paint do do it myself. I'd rent a steam cleaner. I'd give the place a good scrubbing. Maybe my partner and I can fly down and paint, weed the flowerbed.. stuff like that.

Then it hit me. They aren't me. That's why they are where they are. They don't make choices like I imagine all of us on this board do. We plan, we take action to bring about an outcome we want.

During my visit my mother whipped out her cane when we went to dinner. My brother confided in me that it was an act for my benefit, she'd NEVER used the cane before. Granted she was recovering from a stroke but he said she was playing it up big-time for sympathy.

My brother is older (late 40's) and quit his job to move cross country with his GF. He took some college classes and the GF supported them both (she instigated the move). After about 2 years she called it off so he, having no place to go and no real ties out west, went to our mother's to get himself sorted.

So far I think I can't in good conscience not help financially in some way, paying utility bills seems a good suggestion. Even with medicaid her medical bills have been outrageous (she's declared bankruptcy a few times over the years).

 

[FreqFlyer]

To OP - my DM & DD are living separately on $800 SS + my monthly allowance to each. I really have no business doing that given their past. They were terrible parents. But they have given me one gift that I can never repay no matter how much $$$ I have. It is "life." For that, I am eternally grateful and do the things I do FOR them.

I gave her a small stipend for about a year or so to bridge her until SS kicked in. My aunt (her sister) was not happy as my mother was still drinking at the time.

Thinking about the future, when she can no longer care for herself my choices are:

1) Stay away
2) Let the state take over (medicare/medicaid) for some sort of assisted living
3) Purchase a different house for myself and my partner, one that has an in-law suite. At least her housing would be provided and her SS & medicare could help fund a part-time caregiver.

Option one is not an option for me emotionally. Option three really concerns me - that she'd end up running my life (she can be a bit manipulative and does thing to get her way). This may be way too much for me and not fair to my partner. He encourages me to see her and even offered to go down and paint, heart of gold.

 

[cooch96]

OP, your partner sounds like a wonderful man. I vote you should make sure that whatever you do, do it for him.

 

[jimnjana]

I would encourage your brother to find employment of some kind to help with the bills. . Either your brother needs to find work, or he needs to move out. Her SS is not enough to support him as well. After he finds work or moves out, then I would consider financial assistance

 

[Calico]

I gave her a small stipend for about a year or so to bridge her until SS kicked in. My aunt (her sister) was not happy as my mother was still drinking at the time.

Thinking about the future, when she can no longer care for herself my choices are:

1) Stay away
2) Let the state take over (medicare/medicaid) for some sort of assisted living
3) Purchase a different house for myself and my partner, one that has an in-law suite. At least her housing would be provided and her SS & medicare could help fund a part-time caregiver.

Option one is not an option for me emotionally. Option three really concerns me - that she'd end up running my life (she can be a bit manipulative and does thing to get her way). This may be way too much for me and not fair to my partner. He encourages me to see her and even offered to go down and paint, heart of gold.

I am glad you have your partner for emotional and moral support. He sounds like a great guy, being willing to go and paint etc.

I think option #2 sounds very reasonable when the time comes. You and your partner could continue to keep tabs on the situation while still maintaining boundaries between yourselves and the "crazy making" stuff, and just as importantly, not get sucked into assuming financial responsibility.

If my own experience with alcoholic family members is anything to go on, saying your mom is "a bit manipulative" is the understatement of the year.

They are very, very good at avoiding personal responsibility for anything. IMHO, if you go with option #3 you will live to regret it many times over. Just my two cents.

I wish you and your partner the best of luck in this situation. Your mother is extremely lucky to have a caring son like you.

 

[Calico]

My mother was never a drinker, but was a smoker and I currently have a brother with serious OCD and mental issues. There are obviously some people and circumstances that are toxic, but my first reaction would be to reach out and see if things could be improved. Having family closer would at least allow the OP to help in some practical matters and open up the chance of an improving relationship.

I am sorry to hear about the challenges your brother is coping with. I can emphathize with how difficult that is. I have a family member with OCD, and another who suffers from depression. It takes a toll on all concerned.

 

[robnplunder]

I gave her a small stipend for about a year or so to bridge her until SS kicked in. My aunt (her sister) was not happy as my mother was still drinking at the time.

Thinking about the future, when she can no longer care for herself my choices are:

1) Stay away
2) Let the state take over (medicare/medicaid) for some sort of assisted living
3) Purchase a different house for myself and my partner, one that has an in-law suite. At least her housing would be provided and her SS & medicare could help fund a part-time caregiver.

Option one is not an option for me emotionally. Option three really concerns me - that she'd end up running my life (she can be a bit manipulative and does thing to get her way). This may be way too much for me and not fair to my partner. He encourages me to see her and even offered to go down and paint, heart of gold.

For me, I will be opting for something in between 2 & 3. DW and I agree that living close to either DD or DM will ruin our live as we know it.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Addicts lie, steal, manipulate etc and just because they stop using does not mean that they stop manipulating. I know this from both personal experience & working in the field. Do what your conscience tells you to but do not ruin your own life in the process. I would get state aid for housing, etc but don't live in the same house. Take care as I know this is a very tough situation & you sound like a very caring person.

 

[FreqFlyer]

My mother sent me a text today asking for more money to pay for medication. She's on Medicaid so I was confused as to why medication is not covered. The insulin pen mfg she uses offers free/low cost units to the needy but not to people on Medicaid - e.g. Medicaid must pay for it.

I spent several hours today acting as Social Worker trying to figure out her Medicaid (my brother has no clue) as my mother says drugs aren't covered. Of course she doesn't have any plan information on-hand.

Turns our she doesn't qualify for regular Medicaid due to her income however she has "Medically Needy" cost sharing coverage. Each month Florida Medicaid will kick in IF she has medical costs of $750. How someone who lives on $920 in SS can afford $750 I don't know.

An many here know Florida didn't expand their Medicaid eligibility under the ACA so my mother earns too much for FL Medicaid but too little to qualify for a federal subsidy in the healthcare.gov exchange.

I think I've figured out a way for her to qualify for the federal subsidy and am curious if my idea is within the bounds of the tax code.

From what I read today a person in Florida who earns 100% of the federal poverty limit could qualify for a tax subsidy on an exchange-based plan. My mother receives $11K/yr in SS and the applicable poverty limit (from healthcare.gov) is $11.7K/yr. IF my mother could increase her earnings by $700 she'd hit the mark and under the MAGI formula. To qualify she could earn the money through small business income.

Assuming she could earn the money does anyone see any problem with qualifying in this manner?

She turns 65 in March 2015 so the private insurance would just need to bridge a 3 month gap to Medicare.

Based on feedback here, and also what my partner advises, I'm going to do my best to contribute by paying towards her health insurance cost/mo and drug copays and avoid writing blank checks. Sure money is fungible but at least I can say she has the basics.

 

[flyingaway]

I would help my parents regardless, just like parents would not throw away their born disabled children.


It it were me, I would find opportunities to re-connect with my mother and help her financially and emotionally. In your case, I would pay some bills for her, get her some treatments. You may have many friends, you only have one mother.

 

[Calico]

My mother sent me a text today asking for more money to pay for medication.

The first of many such requests to come, no doubt.

Based on feedback here, and also what my partner advises, I'm going to do my best to contribute by paying towards her health insurance cost/mo and drug copays and avoid writing blank checks. Sure money is fungible but at least I can say she has the basics.

IMHO this is a very wise and compassionate middle ground. I am glad to hear that you and your partner are protecting your own financial security in this way.

As far as the complexities of the ACA, someone far more knowledgeable than myself will be along shortly to address that question, I'm sure.

I wish you and your partner continued good luck as you navigate both your mother's demands and the ACA regulations.

 

[Calico]

I would help my parents regardless, just like parents would not throw away their born disabled children.


It it were me, I would find opportunities to re-connect with my mother and help her financially and emotionally. In your case, I would pay some bills for her, get her some treatments. You may have many friends, you only have one mother.

I'm sure this is a great comfort to your mother. When it comes time for you to put that plan into action in your life you can feel very comfortable with that choice.

The OP is dealing with his own unique family situation, and he will find a solution that works for his particular family - not necessarily what would apply to your family or my family or anyone else's family.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

I wish I had had this board as a sounding board and educational tool a few years ago.

Both my parents are gone now. My dad in 1997, and I have a few regrets because I wasn't as educated about elder care issues; my mom in 2012, no regrets because "I knew better, so I did better."

Do your best in the time frame you have, work with your partner, make adjustments along the way as needed, and make it to where you can face yourself in the mirror.

Good luck to you.

 

[RAE]

Sorry to hear about your mother (less so about your brother). As others have pointed out, any help you give will not only enable your mother's poor decisions, but also your brother's apparent parasitic behavior. This may sound callous, but I would advise keeping your distance. .

I have to agree with Jay here. I have been through a very similar situation with some of my family members (and still going through it with my sister), and I can tell you that there is nothing I could have done to help them, when they wouldn't help themselves. It does sound callous, but it's very true. You can pay some of their bills if it makes you feel better, but don't expect it to change the behavior, and it may actually make things worse in the long run.

 

[growing_older]

Can your brother qualify for financial aid for school - maybe some kind of short term job training program at a community college?

While well meaning, this is a terrible idea. An unmotivated neer-do-well who has also proven record of failed attempts at schooling and hasn't enough get up and go to visit a store to buy paint, isn't going to benefit from a program like this. Sitting passively in a classroom (if he even goes) does not automatically qualify you for a job, nor find you a job. It may however saddle you with student debt which can never be discharged and will make your financial situation even worse. I've seen reports of people who used "student loans" as a source of cash for living expenses and their stories do not end well.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

While well meaning, this is a terrible idea. An unmotivated neer-do-well who has also proven record of failed attempts at schooling and hasn't enough get up and go to visit a store to buy paint, isn't going to benefit from a program like this. Sitting passively in a classroom (if he even goes) does not automatically qualify you for a job, nor find you a job. It may however saddle you with student debt which can never be discharged and will make your financial situation even worse. I've seen reports of people who used "student loans" as a source of cash for living expenses and their stories do not end well.

Financial aid can mean grants, not necessarily loans. I get it that the brother would not go through with it, but the idea is to offer him a roadmap out of poverty. Whether he chooses to follow it or not is up to him, but then freqflyer does not need to feel guilty for having done nothing to even try to help. A friend of a friend just got a full scholarship for college at age 60+.

 

[growing_older]

I get it that the brother would not go through with it, but the idea is to offer him a roadmap out of poverty. Whether he chooses to follow it or not is up to him, but then freqflyer does not need to feel guilty for having done nothing to even try to help. A friend of a friend just got a full scholarship for college at age 60+.

I've known people who were motivated and did well in school as older students. I don't see any evidence that this brother will be that kind of person, and every reason to think he would not be:

He took some college classes and the GF supported them both (she instigated the move). After about 2 years she called it off so he, having no place to go and no real ties out west, went to our mother's to get himself sorted.

Pushing someone to go back to school and "better" themselves to get a good job is just unrealistic in this case from what we know. Feeling compassion and desire to help are wonderful, but assuaging guilt by "doing something" that could end up making the situation worse isn't all that helpful. Better to offer counseling, be present, try a little tough love, call regularly, offer job placement help, sort out the medical insurance paperwork mess, research assistance programs, or any of countless other possibly useful things. Getting brother into a classroom, unless HE initiates it, isn't likely to help.

 

[Options]

So sorry to hear about your situation. If you are working, I recommend contacting your company's employee assistance plan. The plan is one of your employee benefits and is almost always administered by an outside organization that specializes in assisting emloyees with life event issues. It's important to know that when you contact them all information is completely confidential and your company will never receive any information regarding your contact. The EAP will have all sorts of referrals regarding elder care and the other issues you mentioned. Many of these referrals are either free or at a very reduced rate.

I don't recommend handling this situation alone, as it is complex, and has many emotional, financial, and physical issues. As others have stated, while it's commendable that you want to provide support, it's extremely important not to be pulled into a co-dependant situation. Guilt is a totally useless emotion.

I suggest being very diligent about caring for yourself first in all aspects: emotionally, financially, psychologically. When flying, we are always advised to put on our own oxygen masks before helping those around us. You can't help anyone if their problems become yours, particularly when those problems were created and chosen by them years ago. Our parents are our fundamental relationships, and they can get damn messy--consciously and unconsciously--even without substance issues.

Best of luck to you!