Lack of sleep and diseases (Alzheimers, cancer, heart attacks, etc)

[tmm99]

Someone shared this video on FB, and we just watched it. It is presented by a neuroscience professor at UC Berkeley. He explains what type of health issues we experience when we don't get enough sleep.

I'm definitely getting more sleep since I FIRE'd, and I would like to continue this trend.

A lot of the information he presented was shocking to me, an incident of heart attacks increasing by 24% a day after we lose one hour due to daylight savings time, being one of them.

 

[tmm99]

Oops, can someone move this to Health and Early Retirement? Thank you.

 

[W2R]

Apparently some other mod or admin beat me to the punch. Anyway it is in the Health and Early Retirement subforum now.

Normally I sleep for about 8 hours, give or take a half hour.

However I have noticed something odd in retirement. Sometimes I go for a couple of weeks with only 5-6 hours' sleep each night, and yet do not feel the need for more. So, I don't stress out about it.

But other times I may go for a few weeks when I feel the need for 9 hours' sleep and maybe a long nap too. So I sleep more during those times.

 

[Amethyst]

I've stopped reading this type of information, because it is frustrating, like being told you have the wrong genetic makeup. Thing is, we can only do so much to "make" ourselves sleep the recommended amount. It's not like using willpower to cut out sugar, eat more vegetables, and exercise every day.

Not to mention that a bunch of "sleep aids" are being implicated in the development of dementia.

 

[tmm99]

Apparently some other mod or admin beat me to the punch. Anyway it is in the Health and Early Retirement subforum now.

Normally I sleep for about 8 hours, give or take a half hour.

However I have noticed something odd in retirement. Sometimes I go for a couple of weeks with only 5-6 hours' sleep each night, and yet do not feel the need for more. So, I don't stress out about it.

But other times I may go for a few weeks when I feel the need for 9 hours' sleep and maybe a long nap too. So I sleep more during those times.

Thank you, W2R. Michael moved it to the Health subforum for me.

Yeah, if I sleep a lot a few nights in a row, I don't need a lot of sleep the next day or two. Maybe yours comes more in cycles, I don't know.

When I was wo*king, my sleep was all over the place (I wo*ked for IT), and I have done some all-nighters in my younger days. I wonder how much beta-amyloid I accumulated in my brain doing these all-nighters...

 

[tmm99]

I've stopped reading this type of information, because it is frustrating, like being told you have the wrong genetic makeup. Thing is, we can only do so much to "make" ourselves sleep the recommended amount. It's not like using willpower to cut out sugar, eat more vegetables, and exercise every day.

Not to mention that a bunch of "sleep aids" are being implicated in the development of dementia.

I'm sure everyone has a different threshold on how much is enough sleep, so I don't think everyone needs eight hours of sleep daily. I do think the amount of sleep or lack of, affects our health.

 

[CaptTom]

I once read an interesting article which tied just about all the common deficiencies and ailments that we think of as "aging" to lack of sleep. There's a ton of research out there which suggests that the restorative stage of deep sleep gets shorter and less stable as we age.

It's not a stretch to image that it's really poor sleep which causes what we call aging, not the other way around.

OK, that's an oversimplification, but it may offer a useful perspective.

 

[Nemo2]

It's not a stretch to image that it's really poor sleep which causes what we call aging, not the other way around..

When I was 'younger' and slept better I was still aging.

 

[Live And Learn]

I have always felt best with 9 or 10 hours of sleep. So many studies call this "excessive and unhealthy" but left to my own devices, sans alarm clock, this is my "sweet spot" so I have to say it works best for me. I certainly don't suffer from lack of sleep. Before ER I would go to bed at 9pm so that I could get 9 hours and sometimes 10 hours sleep (if working from home) before having to get up for w@rk.

 

[imoldernu]

There's a lot more to this subject than just medication.
Up until a year ago, my sleep was 7 hours+ of calm and uninterrupted sleep... now with stage 2 (stage 2 of 7) of dementia or Alzheimer's, rarely more than 4 hours, and even those are filled with racing thoughts or dreams. Quite serious and worrisome.
Having spent many, many hours of research online, I'm convinced that the subject is still in the beginning stages of medical knowledge.
The decline of restorative sleep in the elderly (I are one) is commonly attributed to the increase in the population of those suffering from dementia. With the rise in the sheer population numbers of the elderly, the proportionate cost of dealing with those with dementia is expected to grow by a quantum leap according to many medical statisticians.

As we live in a CCRC, we're very aware of the sleep problems of those both younger and older than us. Interesting to note that different doctors use different approaches... from no medication, to milder sleep medications such as trazodone, to serious opioid-type medications. While there are some foreign studies (France for one) that purport to have multi year studies involving thousands of sufferers, the U.S. results with smaller studies have produced mixed results.

I'd like to think that there was light at the end of the tunnel, but just as the"cure" for dementia is still far away, it looks to me as if the subject of sleep is a contributing factor, and one that is still in the early stages of study and solution.

 

[Amethyst]

Hoping not to sound flippant (because I'm not) it seems like everything is being blamed for Alzheimer's these days. Heaven save us if it's found to be contagious.

 

[imoldernu]

Hoping not to sound flippant (because I'm not) it seems like everything is being blamed for Alzheimer's these days. Heaven save us if it's found to be contagious.

I can well understand your feelings, and must admit to thinking the same thing up until a few years ago. That said, a suggestion. In Google search, enter these two words...
Alzheimer's Increase
and just read the briefs under each website link. The projections by year up to 2050 will be well within the life expectancy of many of our friends here on ER. At the current cost of care for AZ patients ($80+K/yr)and the increasing survival rates for those affected, promises to increase the disease out of pocket cost to $1.3Trillion/yr, from today's $259 Billion, not counting inflation.

While this may seem somewhat off the subject of sleep deprivation, it's hard to separate the pace of life and free floating anxiety from the physical and mental challenges posed by more complicated lifestyles of today.

One article that analyzes the depth of the elderly sleep problem:
Third of elderly Americans take sleeping pills amid 'catastrophic' and deadly insomnia epidemic | The Independent

 

[MRG]

Interesting.
I was recently informed about living at higher altitude and poor sleep quality. Gives me an excuse as to why I don't sleep as well at this altitude.

Leads me to another thought about the obvious link() between living at altitude, with poor sleep, and dementia.

https://www.alzheimers.net/1-11-16-high-altitudes-affect-dementia-risk/



Researchers examined the death records of people that died from Alzheimer’s disease and dementia in the state of California and found that those who lived in higher altitudes in the state were 50% less likely to die from the disease.*

Learn more about the potential benefits of living at a higher altitude and what the study means for future research and prevention methods.

 

[sirsavesalot]

I don't want to change the topic here but figured with the demographic of a lot of folks on this forum this may be of some help. Dr. William Walsh has a book called Nutrient Therapy that is fantastic, especially for mental health disorders. My wife was diagnosed bipolar 1. After much researching and reading, I found a condition called Pyroluria, which mimicked a lot of her conditions. After testing positive for it, and taking just 3 supplements (B6, P5P and Zinc) her bipolar symptoms are GONE. No meds needed. This is just one thing covered in this book.

Anyhow, Chapter 9 covers Alzheimer's, although they are still learning a lot about it. Since I'm such a nice guy, I'll type up the last few paragraphs of the chapter:


[mod edit - copyright violation]

 

[Marita40]

I feel extremely lucky to be a good sleeper. I need a good 9 hours, always have, and it is a rare night that I don't fall quickly to sleep and sleep through out the night. I am also a very early riser, so the negative here is that I am not good for late evening activities. But I'm at the age when I don't care...

 

[Focus]

I didn't realize until I retired that I had been sleep deprived for years. It's hard to be a night owl in this early bird society -- until you retire and can set your own hours.

 

[Amethyst]

It's still hard to be a night owl, when roads and facilities are so crowded. Early is the only time that works

 

[sengsational]

That video was a nice little recap of his book "Why We Sleep". My respect for consistent, high quality, sufficient duration sleep increased tremendously after reading this book. So many people concentrate on food for health and other stuff that's hard to pin down while ignoring the proven positive health effects of good sleep.

As to the frustration of seemingly not being able to do anything about it, that's a misconception. True, our society has it rigged against good sleep, but there are a bunch of things you can do. The book touches on those, but isn't primarily about what to change in order to get better sleep. But much of the science contained within the book supports things that can be done to improve sleep. Some are easier than others. Based on the huge health impact, I'm working on the more difficult aspects now.

 

[JoeWras]

I was subjected (against my will) to an attempt to stay up for over 3 days (72 hours). That experience left me profoundly jealous of any and all sleep time.

Megacorp these days has an expectation to work late night so as to attend meetings on the other side of the world. I told them I could not for health reasons. Seemed to shut them up for now. Yeah, played the HIPA card.

By the way, at 72 hours or so, you will experience hallucinations and all sorts of odd things your body does to trick you into sleeping. I've never taken LSD, but I sure don't want to start now after those one and only hallucinations I had at that time. They were not fun.

 

[CaptTom]

Researchers examined the death records of people that died from Alzheimer’s disease and dementia in the state of California and found that those who lived in higher altitudes in the state were 50% less likely to die from the disease.*

Because they died from other things, first?

Maybe they fell off?

Seriously though, interesting correlation. Doesn't help me, here at sea level. Then again, with all the things suggested to cause Alzheimer's nowadays, it's probably easier to just assume I'm going to get it.

 

[Amethyst]

A good chunk of my career, at different times (including the job just prior to retirement) was spent working rotating shifts in various watch centers. Even though I was pretty good at sleeping during different times of the day, it's a fact that working three different sets of hours, one after another, does horrible things to you. It took almost a year, each time, to feel like myself again. I remember coming home after a set of mid shifts, and having to pull over by the side of the road to take a nap. I was on the verge of falling asleep at the wheel.

 

[Amethyst]

I think it's contagious. My Uncle died of Alzheimer's, and then my Aunt got it, probably from taking care of him.

Because they died from other things, first?

Maybe they fell off?

Seriously though, interesting correlation. Doesn't help me, here at sea level. Then again, with all the things suggested to cause Alzheimer's nowadays, it's probably easier to just assume I'm going to get it.

 

[imoldernu]

Not starting a new thread, but because of my personal interest in Alzheimer's, and of poor sleep as a contributing factor, this article Jan 9 2018... posed a disturbing situation whereby one of the world's largest drug manufacturers has made the decision to stop research on drugs associated with AD. In particular, the article notes that no meaningful progress has been made in containment or cure for the disease in the past 15 years.

We have become accustomed to seeing medical breakthroughs on most diseases, and the hope is that with continued emphasis on study and analysis, solutions will be found. Could it be that Pfizer and perhaps other manufacturers have decided that further studies would not be productive or profitable? If so, could the predictions for the neartime (thirty year) growth and cost projections be valid?

"One of World's Biggest Drug Companies Just Abandoned Alzheimer's And Parkinson's Research"

Worth a look.

https://www.sciencealert.com/one-world-s-biggest-drug-companies-abandoned-alzheimer-s-parkinson-s-disease-pfizer?perpetual=yes&limitstart=1

 

[MichaelB]

Not starting a new thread, but because of my personal interest in Alzheimer's, and of poor sleep as a contributing factor, this article Jan 9 2018... posed a disturbing situation whereby one of the world's largest drug manufacturers has made the decision to stop research on drugs associated with AD. In particular, the article notes that no meaningful progress has been made in containment or cure for the disease in the past 15 years.

We have become accustomed to seeing medical breakthroughs on most diseases, and the hope is that with continued emphasis on study and analysis, solutions will be found. Could it be that Pfizer and perhaps other manufacturers have decided that further studies would not be productive or profitable? If so, could the predictions for the neartime (thirty year) growth and cost projections be valid?

"One of World's Biggest Drug Companies Just Abandoned Alzheimer's And Parkinson's Research"

Worth a look.

https://www.sciencealert.com/one-wo...n-s-disease-pfizer?perpetual=yes&limitstart=1

When I read the announcement my reaction was different. Pfizer may just be focusing it's research elsewhere and limiting the total R&D budget to maintain it's high levels of profit and cash generation. Another likely possibility is they are acknowledging they have no competitive edge in this area.

There's no indication the industry as a whole has given up.

 

[braumeister]

I was subjected (against my will) to an attempt to stay up for over 3 days (72 hours). That experience left me profoundly jealous of any and all sleep time.
...
By the way, at 72 hours or so, you will experience hallucinations and all sorts of odd things your body does to trick you into sleeping.

When I was a teenager, a DJ at one of the local radio stations did some kind of promotion where he tried to stay awake for an entire week.

As I recall, he started getting kind of whacky as he approached 100 hours, and shortly after reaching that point they had to call it off. Nobody was surprised.