Latest Inflation Numbers and Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Market was down~1% on this "big news", honestly--who cares?! I mean, is anyone on here really going to change their investment strategy based on this?

there is "noise" every day that comes and goes.
But that’s the whole point of this thread! :LOL:

Many posters on this forum have been changing their investment strategy based on what they think will happen with interest rates, inflation, and what they think the Fed is going to do. It’s a topic of great interest. So a much stronger than expected employment number was big news.

I for one am hoping inflation keeps coming down, but inflationary pressures seem to persist, so who knows! Maybe there will be another 0.25% rate rise this month. Many seem to think it’s a done deal now.

June 2022 CPI was really bad, and it drops out of the annual sequence in next weeks CPI report. It will be interesting. From last July CPI report:
The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) increased 1.3 percent in June on a seasonally adjusted basis after rising 1.0 percent in May, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Over the last 12 months, the all items index increased 9.1 percent before seasonal adjustment.

No, I don’t care about the daily stock market moves and what seems to surprise it. That part is noise.
 
Last edited:
And today, the actual Labor Department jobs report comes in lower than expectations.
 
Jobs report came in a bit light at 209k jobs added compared to 240k expected. Prior months were revised downward by 110k jobs.

Unemployment ticked lower by 0.1 to 3.6%. Labor hours grew by 0.1 hour.

Overall it was a fairly benign report though much reduced compared to last year's figures, particularly considering the downward revisions to April and May. It was the lowest number of jobs created since December 2020.

"Payrolls rose by 209,000 in June, less than expected, as jobs growth wobbles"

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/07/jobs-report-june-2023-.html?__source=androidappshare
 
My favorite prognosticator of inflation is Scott Grannis at scottgrannis.blogspot.com.

Here are a couple of charts from his blog. He has been saying for over a year that the FED tightening was in reaction to a big buildup in the M2 during COVID that became an inflation trigger as the pandemic receded and folks no longer wanted to hold the cash. His analysis now is that that the tightening cycle is over, inflation has already been tamed, we are just waiting for the housing data to catch up. Since he is an actual economist, he makes his case in many more charts and graphs and much more persuasively than I can summarize.
 

Attachments

  • Case Shiller vs CPI OER.jpg
    Case Shiller vs CPI OER.jpg
    341.8 KB · Views: 22
  • M2 leads CPI.jpg
    M2 leads CPI.jpg
    283.6 KB · Views: 25
He sounds very well reasoned.

A huge decline in job openings, slower hiring and lower sales at key retailers are other indications. I think he is onto something.
 
This was the same argument I heard the unnamed pundit have on the radio.

It has a lot of merit except for one thing: is real estate cratering or even staying steady? I've been fascinated by the new price increases in my region this year. My nephew (Chicago area) can't buy a house due to competition and increases. He's 36 and a CPA. Too bad he didn't try 8 years ago when Chicago area real estate was still very depressed.

All these rises despite the mortgage rates.

CPI is based on a national survey so it may differ. Of course, today's price rise will be seen next year. Last year's price dip and leveling will be seen soon, so for the rest of the year, it will greatly impact CPI.
 
This was the same argument I heard the unnamed pundit have on the radio.

It has a lot of merit except for one thing: is real estate cratering or even staying steady? I've been fascinated by the new price increases in my region this year. My nephew (Chicago area) can't buy a house due to competition and increases. He's 36 and a CPA. Too bad he didn't try 8 years ago when Chicago area real estate was still very depressed.

All these rises despite the mortgage rates.

CPI is based on a national survey so it may differ. Of course, today's price rise will be seen next year. Last year's price dip and leveling will be seen soon, so for the rest of the year, it will greatly impact CPI.

The CPI metric is rent, not home ownership. The rental market has been on decline nationally. They only survey 1/6 of the market each month. So they stay behind the curve on rent changes. Most seem to agree that the rent inflation is overstated in CPI for that reason and will come down heading into the fall as this becomes fully reflected.
 
This is anecdotal (one city), but one bedroom rentals in Reno went up about 38% in 2021, about 5% in 2022, and 2.3% this year. I think house prices have gone down about 5.5% this year.

Reno has been a very hot housing market, due to a lot of manufacturing and other jobs and limited supply, but I think it does suggest what Montecfo and Exchme have posted, that inflation is indeed declining following housing.

Our house has doubled in value in the 7 years we've been here, which to me is shocking (In Houston our house increased 3-5% a year over 25 years, with a lot of the increase in the last 3-5 years from 2011-2015). If we were retiring now, we couldn't afford Reno.
 
The CPI metric is rent, not home ownership. The rental market has been on decline nationally. They only survey 1/6 of the market each month. So they stay behind the curve on rent changes. Most seem to agree that the rent inflation is overstated in CPI for that reason and will come down heading into the fall as this becomes fully reflected.

There's rent (8% of CPI) and Owner's Equivalent Rent (25% of CPI). Both suffer from the survey replacement lag you mention. But both also come from different sources. So one can't just look at apartment rents only, it has to go deeper into the absolutely arcane and confusing method used to develop OER.

The more I read about OER, the less I understand it. Not that it matters, it is only 25% of the CPI after all. Ha ha.

Reading from BLS:
About Rent and OER: https://www.bls.gov/cpi/factsheets/owners-equivalent-rent-and-rent.htm

Extreme in depth on rent and equivalents from BLS (scholarly? gibberish? You decide): https://www.bls.gov/osmr/research-papers/2009/pdf/ec090050.pdf
 
JoeWras I know. It is a crock really but we are stuck.

Yeah, you are right. I pretty much agree with you on all this, and also believe the analysts are spot on about shelter easing off later this year. I'm actually more concerned about next year due to this year's renewed rise.

But anyway, it is a "crock" because they have made it so nobody can understand it. I understand why they stopped what they were doing in the 70s and moved to this more smooth method in the 80s. But understanding it is impossible. I can only hope our government employees are doing the right thing.

Case in point. There is a blog post from BLS last year here (https://www.bls.gov/blog/2022/measuring-changes-in-shelter-prices-in-the-consumer-price-index.htm) that is all about "measuring changes in shelter prices in the CPI". That's the title.

But man, it is so contradictory. It actually blew my assumptions about OER out of the water, so I don't want to talk about it like I know the answers, because I don't.

Let me quote some of the confusion from the above BLS blog post:
Owners’ equivalent rent is the larger of these two components, at nearly one quarter of the consumer market basket, or weight, in the CPI. It represents the implicit amount an owner of a housing unit would have to pay in rent to live in the unit, assuming it was leased instead of owned. The expenditure weight for owners’ equivalent rent in the CPI is based on a question in the Consumer Expenditure Survey. That question asks homeowners, (1)“If someone were to rent your home today, how much do you think it would rent for monthly, unfurnished and without utilities?” The role of this question can be easily misunderstood by even sophisticated users of BLS data. That has contributed to a common misconception: the mistaken belief that the price observations used for owners’ equivalent rent in the CPI are also from homeowner estimates of their home’s rental value. (2)In fact, the sample of prices used in the owners’ equivalent rent index comes from observations of rent collected in our monthly survey of housing prices, but with utilities and other similar charges removed.

So... Looking at "(1)" in my bolded and underlined part of the quote, I have emphasized this here in the past. As a former BLS survey participant (although not on shelter), it connected with me. These were the kind of questions we'd get. Mine were more like: "How many people do you have living with you in your home." Again, it was a bit open to interpretation.

So then they come up with "(2)", which basically invalidates "(1)", by implying that they really don't use the survey question, instead they use rental data of homes and impute the answer. So they ask the question, but don't use it and instead use actual data? What?

Actually, I'm OK if they use actual rental data instead of homeowner's guesses. And the more I dive deeply into the BLS papers, the more it looks like this is the case. That is, they actually look at homes for rent an impute OER from that. But why are all the communications on this so muddy, with this blog post being outright contradictory?

It is so unclear! And that frustrates me, because OER is a full 25% of the CPI data. That's incredible! 1/4th of the data! Yet, the BLS accuses "sophisticated" people of not understanding it.

That makes me angry. That's on them. They are not explaining things well.
 
Last edited:
I'm guessing they use one to validate the other but it is needlessly opaque I'd have to say.
 
Thanks for the info. Wish we could go negative for a while, but I know that won't happen.:(
 
CPI-W = 299.394. Absent actual deflation between now and September 30, 2023, the minimum Social Security COLA for 2023 (to go into effect 1/24) will be 2.6%. (3Q22 avg was 291.901)
 
Last edited:
I-Bond inflation component as of 11/1/23.

If no deflation between now and September 30, 22023, the inflation component of the next I-bond rate will be a minimum of 2.17%. Don't know about the fixed component.
 
YoY had the effects of the brutal spring 22.

What catches my eye is the trend in MoM on the core. That's progress!
 
Yes the CPI trend is excellent. I do believe Fed should continue to let the market percolate and not raise for a while. 10 hikes in 11 meetings over 15 months is lot. These things take time. It is working.
 
Yes the CPI trend is excellent. I do believe Fed should continue to let the market percolate and not raise for a while. 10 hikes in 11 meetings over 15 months is lot. These things take time. It is working.

I was a huge fan of raising earlier. I am now in the camp of pausing.
 
Some are seeing an indefinite pause after this month's meeting. You will probably see the dots move back to where they were before last meeting.
 
Some are seeing an indefinite pause after this month's meeting. You will probably see the dots move back to where they were before last meeting.


There are two more payrolls and two more CPIs before the next dot plot; a lot can change.
 
They were talking on CNBC like July hike is still definite and then maybe they will pause or stop.

Some guy was saying there would be 3 more hikes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom