Minimum Dignity Floor

[COcheesehead]

The Fidelity Retirement planning tool has this concept as a basis. If you haven’t used it, I recommend it. It really helps to fetter out the details of your expenses.

 

[karen1972]

You sound like the gal an acquaintance of mine hooked up with. She is a widow who has a big paid off house, a chunk of her deceased husband’s pension, her SS, and all the savings from 30 years of marriage. He has his SS check, good looks (a real silver fox), and is a great conversationalist.[/QUOTE[

Sorry but why is whenever a woman talks about having money it always seems to come back to an inference that she someone didn't make it herself. I graduated applied math and computer science so had no issues earning all that money myself. A back injury made me re-prioritize my life.

 

[harley]

You sound like the gal an acquaintance of mine hooked up with. She is a widow who has a big paid off house, a chunk of her deceased husband’s pension, her SS, and all the savings from 30 years of marriage. He has his SS check, good looks (a real silver fox), and is a great conversationalist.[/QUOTE[

Sorry but why is whenever a woman talks about having money it always seems to come back to an inference that she someone didn't make it herself. I graduated applied math and computer science so had no issues earning all that money myself. A back injury made me re-prioritize my life.

I'm not sure you read the post you quoted.

 

[MatatuPuncher]

I'm not sure you read the post you quoted.

No kidding! That and a rash snap to judgement are the problem with half the people on the internet.

 

[karen1972]

No kidding! That and a rash snap to judgement are the problem with half the people on the internet.

It comes from peoples experiences, so while you may not read it that way, that is the way I read it and I read it multiple times before responding.

Its what I call soft sexism. If it referred to a guy often times it would have been written as he came to the relationship with significant assets along with is SS without the need to qualify it came from a marriage, the partners pensions, etc.

I do realize it was unfair to judge this individuals intent, their post just struck a nerve from years of dealing with men whos intentions were very clear. Climbing the corp ladder in male dominated field left its imprint and its hard not to read things with that jaded edge.

 

[Fermion]

I hear you. Since October we bought a piece of property and a new Lexus. Our portfolio has already recovered to the same level before these purchases in just a couple months. But this can't last forever.

We bought some land, a Kubota excavator, two snowmobiles with trailer, a truck, a van, and a 34 foot sailboat, all since retiring in 2015 and our portfolio is higher than before these purchases as well (although the sailboat is trying really hard to drag it down). I sure do hope this party continues.

 

[mrfeh]

One of their main philosophies is a “Minimum Dignity Floor”.

Sounds similar to the Liability Matching Portfolio (search for it over at bogleheads.org). If so, I'm not a fan; seems unnecessarily conservative.

I'm sticking w/ a vanilla 60/40 portfolio.

 

[Independent]

Statistically, don't very few Americans spend long stays in Nursing Homes (ie. skilled nursing). Assisted Living yes, but full skilled nursing, for a multi-year stay, I think is much less prevalent when I looked into this.

-gauss

Yes, I should have said "long term care" instead of "nursing home".

The point is that the the income/assets providing my "Dignity Floor" need to be sufficient to fund my acceptable lifestyle even if I am unable to fully care for myself.

IMO, that means either my income stream includes money to pay for LTC insurance, or I've walled off some assets to pay for LTC, and I don't include them in any other spending plan.

 

[Fermion]

Wife and I have agreed on a trip to Oregon if either of us falls into a LTC situation that is miserable and just prolonging suffering. We can take care of each other in lesser situations. There are other worlds than these.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Statistically, don't very few Americans spend long stays in Nursing Homes (ie. skilled nursing). Assisted Living yes, but full skilled nursing, for a multi-year stay, I think is much less prevalent when I looked into this.

-gauss

yes, most nursing home stays are short

 

[GravitySucks]

Unfortunately some are long.
I worked in a nursing home for 4 years. At least 4 of the patients that were there when I started were there when I left.
There are worse things than death.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Unfortunately some are long.
I worked in a nursing home for 4 years. At least 4 of the patients that were there when I started were there when I left.
There are worse things than death.

indeed - my grandmother spent her last 3 years in one

 

[gauss]

Yes, I should have said "long term care" instead of "nursing home".

The point is that the the income/assets providing my "Dignity Floor" need to be sufficient to fund my acceptable lifestyle even if I am unable to fully care for myself.

IMO, that means either my income stream includes money to pay for LTC insurance, or I've walled off some assets to pay for LTC, and I don't include them in any other spending plan.

Thanks for clarifying. Yes the cost for Skilled Nursing around here is about twice that of Assisted Living. DMIL, who prior to this point lived alone, spent her last 2 years in Assisted Living.

-gauss

 

[bmcgonig]

I tend to agree with you. But one of their arguments is that as we age we may not cognitively be able to manage all of the complexities of managing portfolios and sustainable withdrawal rates. A person may not recognize the cognitive decline, and at that point it would be too late. He gives the example that his father has admitted to him that he no longer understands fractions.

Some people call it a probability portfolio (eg 60/40, 50/50) where there's a probability of success. That versus a guaranteed portfolio, ie SS, pensions, annuities etc.

I'm in the minimum dignity camp where all my necessities will be covered from age 70 by SS and a simple SPIA annuity. I'll take SS at 70 and buy the SPIA at 70. Instead of a 50/50 portfolio I'll use part of the fixed income percentage to buy the SPIA and then I'll be something like 70/30 on the rest. Even though the SPIA isn't cola'd I hopefully can rely on the stocks in the '70' to take care of inflation. I can even go hog wild and raise it higher in the right circumstances without fear of screwing up my future.

I think it comes down to personality type.

My mom has dementia and has no idea that she has it. And had no idea that she wasn't handling her finances properly.

 

[NW-Bound]

We bought some land, a Kubota excavator, two snowmobiles with trailer, a truck, a van, and a 34 foot sailboat, all since retiring in 2015 and our portfolio is higher than before these purchases as well (although the sailboat is trying really hard to drag it down). I sure do hope this party continues.

While I rebalance into cash, some people rebalance into Wagyu beef, lobsters, caviar, and Dom Perignon. Hard goods like what you bought are also acceptable assets to rebalance to.

Back on "dignity floor", I wonder that when I am no longer of sound mind and body, I will even remember what dignity is.

 

[bmcgonig]

While I rebalance into cash, some people rebalance into Wagyu beef, lobsters, caviar, and Dom Perignon. Hard goods like what you bought are also acceptable assets to rebalance to.

Back on "dignity floor", I wonder that when I am no longer of sound mind and body, I will even remember what dignity is.

The little evidence I've seen is that you very much are aware of your life and surroundings and whether they are dignified or not. You just don't remember squat. At least in the early and middle stages.

 

[PJHawk]

I listen to their podcast and I am currently a client in the final phase of my retirement analysis presentation. I also was not recommended an annuity or life insurance products. Our two social security payments will cover our MDF needs. So from an MDF perspective we are in good shape. I am awaiting their final recommendations but I think it will be primarily focused on the tax planning window prior to RMD time.

 

[Hopeful]

I listen to their podcast and I am currently a client in the final phase of my retirement analysis presentation. I also was not recommended an annuity or life insurance products. Our two social security payments will cover our MDF needs. So from an MDF perspective we are in good shape. I am awaiting their final recommendations but I think it will be primarily focused on the tax planning window prior to RMD time.

Wow. Glad to hear a fellow listener, and a client. I would be interested in hearing from you once you get your final presentation to get your thoughts.

 

[Hopeful]

Some people call it a probability portfolio (eg 60/40, 50/50) where there's a probability of success. That versus a guaranteed portfolio, ie SS, pensions, annuities etc.

I'm in the minimum dignity camp where all my necessities will be covered from age 70 by SS and a simple SPIA annuity. I'll take SS at 70 and buy the SPIA at 70. Instead of a 50/50 portfolio I'll use part of the fixed income percentage to buy the SPIA and then I'll be something like 70/30 on the rest. Even though the SPIA isn't cola'd I hopefully can rely on the stocks in the '70' to take care of inflation. I can even go hog wild and raise it higher in the right circumstances without fear of screwing up my future.

I think it comes down to personality type.

My mom has dementia and has no idea that she has it. And had no idea that she wasn't handling her finances properly.

I think this is something that I don't hear about a lot on here. I have a feeling many have their floor covered with ss, pension, and dividends. But I would not be opposed to the idea of a small SPIA to assist once at age 70 in case of the cognitive decline of my wife or I.

 

[Octogirl]

My DSis and I have this conversation about "a trip to Oregon" - as we both work in healthcare and see huge sums $$$ spent by families on memory care units. A decent memory care unit cost $7-8,000 / month.



I have asked DH for a trip to Oregon (for DWDA) if I get dementia to avoid prolonged care and suffering.

He should continue to enjoy his life when I no longer recognize him.

 

[NW-Bound]

The little evidence I've seen is that you very much are aware of your life and surroundings and whether they are dignified or not. You just don't remember squat. At least in the early and middle stages.

Uh Oh!

That means you would be miserable and know that you are, no matter what floor is under your feet.

Not good!

 

[bmcgonig]

Uh Oh!

That means you would be miserable and know that you are, no matter what floor is under your feet.

Not good!

Or the opposite? My mom is now finally in a nursing home. It's a very nice one and she absolutely loves it. Which is a huge relief. She's very aware of how nice everyone is to her and that she gets her meals given to her in her room etc. She thinks it's a great place to "have ended up". Of course she's comparing it to home, which with her memory is actually the home she grew up in, which was 100 years ago. She doesn't remember the home she was in for the last 50 years.

She's very happy in her dementia. I'm sure luck has a lot to do with it on whether you end up happy or sad but she's definitely aware of her environment.

And of course it's nice to have someone to arrange everything for us and keep us feeling secure along the way. That might be the hard part for many of us.

 

[Aerides]

Or the opposite? My mom is now finally in a nursing home. It's a very nice one and she absolutely loves it. Which is a huge relief. She's very aware of how nice everyone is to her and that she gets her meals given to her in her room etc. She thinks it's a great place to "have ended up". Of course she's comparing it to home, which with her memory is actually the home she grew up in, which was 100 years ago. She doesn't remember the home she was in for the last 50 years.

She's very happy in her dementia. I'm sure luck has a lot to do with it on whether you end up happy or sad but she's definitely aware of her environment.

And of course it's nice to have someone to arrange everything for us and keep us feeling secure along the way. That might be the hard part for many of us.

This is a lovely picture, thank you. Despite her condition, it seems your mother is in the best place she could be.

 

[ncbill]

Nursing home or memory care ALF?

Been in plenty of skilled nursing facilities...the custodial side of those (as opposed to the Medicare/rehab side) have all been pretty depressing...think shared hospital rooms.

Memory care ALFs on the other hand are usually private rooms that aren't much different than the rooms you'd see in independent living...though the residents can't leave on their own.

 

[bmcgonig]

Nursing home or memory care ALF?

Been in plenty of skilled nursing facilities...the custodial side of those (as opposed to the Medicare/rehab side) have all been pretty depressing...think shared hospital rooms.

Memory care ALFs on the other hand are usually private rooms that aren't much different than the rooms you'd see in independent living...though the residents can't leave on their own.

It's in Ireland. They really don't have independent living or assisted living here at all, or very little anyway. So the people there are everything from assisted living to those who need actual nursing homes. This particular one isnt depressing at all in my opinion. Although I'm sure some are. The government seems to do a good job vetting and inspecting them. They do random inspections and publish the results on a website. They do have a wing for those with advanced Alzheimer's that's set up especially for them and has extra locked doors etc. She's not in that.


Here's a link to it

http://www.ferndean.ie/


Here's a super fancy one if anyone wants to retire here [emoji16]

https://www.fourferns.ie/the-four-ferns-boutique-nursing-home/#accommodation