Mom needs to move...

[nphx]

At 87 mom agrees she needs assistance with daily life.

Her terms are that house must be sold before she moves and with built in guilt " i wont be happy anywhere else".

Lucky for me my significant other is accepting to have mom move to AZ to home or assisted living.

All children are from out of state, and i listed Queens NY home for sale, but so far any walk throughs are stymied with one of the children being there to facilitate and she wont be out of the house for it. Only a few weeks into this. I have some walk throughs scheduled for my NY trip next week.

I have not yet engaged a realtor (zillow listing so far) and may interview one to see if they will do what is needed to earn their commission instead of asking for home improvement investments to simplify their sale transaction.

We tried to find in home assistant and after brother and i pre-screened.. then mom interviews found reason to decline 3 options. So not pursuing the interim in home assistance option. Mom needs a "good day" to walk to the avenue and get groceries and the neighborhood friends and family network has expired down to a shallow pool. This needs to be solved soon.

Resources are not a near term issue (i and my mom can afford getting some help) , but finding a paid trusted individual with Polish and English speaking skills is a challenge.

Unsure if i have a question the community can answer... maybe someone who dealt with similar life event can share some advice.

 

[Oz investor]

from my experience , the Poles are crazy in their own delightful way .

be prepared for something completely outside normal expectations
good luck
but expect all careful planning to be successfully avoided

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

If I were in your position I would engage a real estate agent and get it done. Winter is coming and Arizona will be a delight for your Mom.

-BB

 

[foxfirev5]

I second getting a RE agent soon. I'm currently going through the same process with my 88 year old DM. She is under contract with a closing in the next few weeks . Fingers crossed.

On the other hand she wants to sell ASAP and is really pitching in to get it done. Even with all that I wouldn't try to sell the home without an agent.

 

[MarieIG]

In Queens you should be able to have healthy groceries delivered, and someone to come in and clean once at week while you're waiting for the house to sell.

 

[Jerry1]

Welcome to another club. Maybe the moderators of this site can add a section or recommend another site for people dealing with this (senior parents), that’s as helpful as this one is for retirement. Our situation is different in that DMiL has Alzheimer’s and doesn’t want to leave her house, so even if only reluctantly agreed to, consider that a plus. Also, thank your significant other for being willing to bring your DM into the home. I’ve agreed to have DMiL stay with us, however, we’ve had DMiL for a couple weeks from time to time and I’m having second and third thoughts.

Good luck. I would move as fast as possible while you have some agreement on the selling of the house. That’s huge.

 

[pb4uski]

We are going through this with my 87 yo mother. She has relutcantly agreed that she should no longer live alone and where she winters she has survived all her peers and only knows a handful of people.

One of my siblings is single and her and mom get along well but sibling's house is too small. The current idea is for them to buy a larger house where each would have a nice master bedroom suite and then share a great room and kitchen.

Why is your mother insisting on her house being sold before she moves?

 

[corn18]

My MIL is in the same boat. Can't live alone. Won't move to assisted living. Won't move at all. We have offered to buy another house with an in-law suite/house but nope. "I am leaving here feet first!" Had the same issue with FIL when he got cancer. Last memories of him my wife and I have are wiping his backside, cleaning up soiled sheets and helping him pee. This seems especially silly considering they have a lot of money and could afford any care they want/needed.

We decided we will do what we can for our parents, but we wanted to do something to help our kids (and us) when the time came for us to get old. So we talked about it and are starting to formulate a GPS (Geezer Planning Statement). So far, all we have is don't be a burden to our kids. Maybe we could get a template going on here and start formulating ideas.

 

[rodi]

Ageing parents are a challenge. My MIL and FIL had issues - FIL was wheelchair bound and MIL was his caregiver... with support from kids. We built a granny flat that was wheelchair friendly to make it easier for MIL to care for FIL (and literally 50 yards from our house) but MIL didn't want to live in CA year round - preferred her home in KY. So 6 months they were with us, and 6 months in KY with SIL visiting daily. As the dementia progressed she a) refused to come back to CA, and b) started forgetting some of the caregiving tasks - putting FIL at risk. (Lost weight, bed sores, etc.) Dementia is an awful condition. Social services got involved and DH had to get guardianship of both parents so that he could legally move FIL to a skilled nursing home. MIL stayed living at home with support from SIL. Eventually she reached the point she could no longer live independentlly, even with daily assistance from SIL so we moved her to a memory unit.

DH sold her home 2 years ago. The realtor more than earned her commission. We opted for inexpensive 'spruce ups'.... It was a smallish home in a nice, but not upper class, neighborhood... New paint, new laminate floors downstairs, cleaned the carpets upstairs. We had issues with the sale even though DH had legal guardianship and the realtor helped us through the legal hoops.

When interviewing realtors take what they suggest as spruce ups and ask if lower cost options are acceptable or will get bang for the buck. Laminate vs wood saved about $5K and made a huge impact on the presentability. A fresh coat of paint is cheap and will make an older home feel fresh. We declined to de-popcorn the ceilings and redo the kitchen (other than paint.) It still sold for over asking.

The money from the sale should cover several more years of paying for her memory unit.

 

[cynicalbuthopeful]

As someone who previously lived in NY, and bought and sold a home in NY -- get mom to move now and hire a Realtor. Find one who will stage, etc. To sell quickly and get a good price, declutter, depersonalize, and have it well cleaned. The listing will get a lot more traffic if a realtor is handling this (and a better price).

 

[nphx]

Thank you all for the support network !!!! I have some walk troughs scheduled next weekend when i fly in and you motivated me to schedule a meet with a short list of realtors to facilitate the deal.

 

[nphx]

We are going through this with my 87 yo mother. She has relutcantly agreed that she should no longer live alone and where she winters she has survived all her peers and only knows a handful of people.

One of my siblings is single and her and mom get along well but sibling's house is too small. The current idea is for them to buy a larger house where each would have a nice master bedroom suite and then share a great room and kitchen.

Why is your mother insisting on her house being sold before she moves?

She is concerned of the NYC sanitation overly eager to write a ticket for a Doritos bag someone tossed on the corner house exposure. It does take daily oversight. I posted a part time job requiring 2x daily take pics of property to prove they show up - prefect for a local resident and had some exorbitant property management estimates and seems like 1 good local individual where it is a win win.

Also sibling primary in managing finances says just rent it ... mom wants to see funds in account to be secure. I can certainly match any current offers plus more- but that seems like stealing so not going there. Needs to be a fair market offer.

Also- bad timing, 2 weeks ago sink hot water line broke in basement was spraying for several hours. Insurance was satisfactorily responsive - but that is a reason why she says she cannot leave.

Should be simple huh?

Standby - i am going to make this happen some how.

 

[pb4uski]

Last part is simple.... for each of our properties if we are gone for a week or more we turn off the water at the main (where it enters the building) to reduce the risk of damage from a burst pipe or hose.

 

[Oz investor]

i suppose buying the house ( for a fair price ) and installing one of your ( or your sibling's ) children in there at least until the property market peaks again is too complicated ??

i can understand where your mother is coming from , but how to get a happy solution ??

 

[gauss]

My MIL is in the same boat. Can't live alone. Won't move to assisted living. Won't move at all. We have offered to buy another house with an in-law suite/house but nope. "I am leaving here feet first!" Had the same issue with FIL when he got cancer. Last memories of him my wife and I have are wiping his backside, cleaning up soiled sheets and helping him pee. This seems especially silly considering they have a lot of money and could afford any care they want/needed.

We decided we will do what we can for our parents, but we wanted to do something to help our kids (and us) when the time came for us to get old. So we talked about it and are starting to formulate a GPS (Geezer Planning Statement). So far, all we have is don't be a burden to our kids. Maybe we could get a template going on here and start formulating ideas.

I think it is quite common for a senior to move from their home to some type of group living setting after an "medical event" of some sort.

MIL broker her hip earlier this year and is still not walking on her own or independent. My DM fell overnight and wanted to go to the hospital the next day - "legs didn't feel right". DM's muscles were deconditioned due to lack of exercise/inactivity.

Both had hospital stays followed by a month in rehab facility. In both cases rehab discharge instructions was that they could not live along yet.

We set them up under "respite" stays at a local independent-living/assisted living facility. They went willingly when I assured them that it would not have to be permanent, and they jus needed to heal up to regain their independence and go home. The ball was in their court wrt how serious they would take the therapy that was continued in this setting.

After 90 days at the facility were approaching, the facility informed us that this would be the end of their "respite" stay. They would either need to sign a regular lease (month to month with up front community fee) or checkout.

I presented this to DM and offered to move her back to her apartment to see if she could handle independent living a couple of weeks before the "respite" was up . We tried this, but after 2 weeks she was ready to go back to the facility (it was her decision -- I just setup the scenario that would encourage her to make a decision with a built-in deadline). She missed the interaction with people, meals etc.

At the end of the day, a "medical event" caused her to spend a few months in a facility near me, and at the end of the day she choose to stay there.

The only big remaining issue is to allow me to resolve what to do with her furniture and vacacte and terminate the lease on her prior apartment (ie home).

I think there is a bit of a "mourning period" that DM needed to go through with regards to her full independence. She seems to recognize/accept that where she is now is probably best/easiest for her.

Been a stressful year. I hope I haven't been too obnoxious on some of my other posts here at ER.og.

-gauss

 

[chris2008]

4 years ago we gifted my mom a week as guest at an assisted living place "to try it".

It took some months to finally make up her mind to sign the contract and move in.
(The professionals at the place told me that, if not for an emergency, some months to make up their mind is quite normal for their customers)

We moved her with the stuff she wanted to keep and assured her that the house will stay "as is" for 3 more months, just in case.
After 2 months we contacted a real estate person to prepare the sale.
It was sold 2 months later.



We could not have sold the house with her still around.
She still thinks she made a good decision.

 

[Newventurer]

Any chance you could schedule her to come visit you for a couple weeks and sell it while she is gone?

 

[Dash man]

Do you have POA so you can make the decision to sell? I highly recommend you get a financial and health care POA while she is able to sign.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Any chance you could schedule her to come visit you for a couple weeks and sell it while she is gone?

Assuming the deed is in her name, that would be illegal if nphx doesn't have POA.

 

[Hermit]

Assuming the deed is in her name, that would be illegal if nphx doesn't have POA.

I think the concept would be that the RE could stage and show the place and hopefully get a good offer in that time.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I think the concept would be that the RE could stage and show the place and hopefully get a good offer in that time.

Sorry, I may have misinterpreted that comment! Staging and showing would be a lot easier if she was elsewhere, definitely!

 

[Huston55]

OP-

I can’t help you with convincing your Mom to move before the house is sold but, having gone through this experience with my DM, I can suggest how to handle the other items.

1. Move as quickly as possible on all fronts (moving DM into assisted living, selling house, purging stuff); the situation will not get better, and could deteriorate quickly.
2. Don’t rent with the idea that you’ll subsequently sell shortly thereafter. We did this and, while it worked out OK for our situation, it was a royal PITA and didn’t really provide much financial benefit.
3. Don’t move DM into your house; this is only temporary at best, and will consume your lives while not providing the care your DM needs. We did this and it was a mistake.
4. Get all your DM’s affairs in order (legal, property, will, etc.) as quickly as possible. Most states have excellent ‘Agencies on Aging’ which provide support & advice; contact yours for help.
5. Sort DM’s stuff (what she will keep, what you & siblings want to keep, what to get rid of). Do this as quickly as possible, and use an estate sale company for the “get rid of” category. Yes, they’re expensive but, it’s worth every penny for the hassle it will save you.
6. Enlist the help of your siblings, as long as they are helpful. Sharing the burden in such situations really helps a lot. My DS & DBIL were Saints when we did this.
7. Concentrate on spending as much time with DM as possible from now on, especially once she’s moved to AZ assisted living near you.
8. Consider placing DM in a CCRC instead of an ‘Assisted Living Only’ facility; it will be better for her & for you. See this thread for more info: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f47/ccrc-reference-material-faqs-86124.html
9. Make sure your DW knows how much you appreciate her support & understanding. You cannot tell or show her too many times.

Wishing you the best.

 

[deserat]

I just went through this in AZ with my mom. She had lung cancer, had chemo four times then the fifth put her into the hospital in Feb. I thought she was going to go then. She didn't. She went back home in hospice. Was bed-ridden then bounced back and was out and about with her 85 year old husband who can barely walk himself. I had an agreement with her that when she no longer able to get to the bathroom by herself (they lived in a single wide mobile home) she would move to an assisted living home.

I had been working with hospice and their social workers in the background getting ready. They would give me lists of group homes that were open. Towards the end of her life, the drama increased.

She fell and broke her hip - they put a gamma nail in and she spent a week or so in an inpatient rehab facility. At the same time the cancer had metastasized to her brain and she was acting erratically, aggressively and in high anxiety. Her husband would 'rescue' her and take her home which was not the best environment.

Her husband finally realized he could not be her home caretaker, called the ambulance, had her taken to ER to stabilize her medications and then with my MPOA I got my mom into a group home. I did work with her as best as I could, however, the in-patient hospice facility would only keep her for 5 days and then charge her $200/day from that day forward.

The group homes the hospice social worker recommended were *very* clean, had between 2-6 people living there, were big homes in regular neighborhoods, had 24 hour caregivers to assist the inhabitants, cooked all the food, did all the laundry, worked with hospice for visits and medications, allowed visitors for as long as they wanted to stay...

There are group home and assisted living 'brokers' who steer clients towards facilities so that they can get a percentage. The social workers I worked with did not out and out say they didn't like that or the facilities, but I got the gist. In the end, I was very pleasantly surprised with the phenomenal quality of the group home and care my mom received towards the end of her life. She was not super happy as she wanted to 'go home,' however, it was not possible based on her situation.

For the OP, the group home also took older people who weren't necessarily in a hospice situation. I met one man at my mom's group home who was 94 and had been in WWII - a former marine. He had moved himself there because he was older and wanted the assistance. I found out from the owner of the group home that his children split the monthly fee for him. When I looked at him, he looked all of 75 years old and was quite lucid. He had a cane - amazing man. He told me he had a house, but didn't want to live alone.

This facility cost me $3500/mo. My mom lived only 12 days there, however, that was based on her physiological state. AZ (the Phx area) has a range of $2-6K for these types of arrangements in general.

The hospice personnel and the social workers pretty much 'got down on their knees' and thanked me for putting her in the group home. They told me many people just 'dump' their relatives as they don't want to deal with it. Very sad.

To the OP - you are doing good work. I miss my mother, but am so glad I had the resources to ensure in the end she was able to die with dignity in a caring, clean facility. The circumstances in my situation made it too difficult to move her to my home, so I think she got the best I could give her.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Unless the parent has dementia they need to be fully aware and agree to what is happening with their stuff and their living arrangements. My mom spent a few weeks recovering at 84 from a 13 week hospital stay after cancer surgery. Even though it was supposed to be a good facility she had a horrible experience and said she was never going again. She lived alone at 89 until a week before she died. My siblings were retired and lived a hour away so during the last few years sometimes would stay for a week if she needed it but regardless even if they hadn’t she was not going to a facility and it never crossed any of our minds to try and force her.