Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stink...

Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

I assume you came up with your 9% YTD simply by comparing your Jan 1 account balance to today's value.

Yep, all gains (realized and unrealized) plus dividends paid.

Although if you want to throw real estate into the mix, my house has appreciated ~30% in the past year vs comparable neighborhood sales and my wifes old house that will get sold sometime in the near future is up ~20%. Thrown in to the mix that would give me about a 20% overall gain YTD.

Dont worry I'll let you guys say "I told you so" if I ever step in a hole.
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Great going, TH!! Thanks for the feedback and hard
work.

My "coffeehouse" IRA has done 5.47% as of today vs.
2.66% for the Target Retirement 2025, which is my
benchmark. This was helped by buying REIT and
the TIPS fund at the right time. I have since collected
the profits and reinvested in my Short Term Investment
bond fund. My only transgression from the Coffeehouse
allocation has been to add International Explorer. This
was done the day before they closed the fund.

As of today, my Coffeehouse IRA has a 60/40 split
with equal weight to 7 stock funds: Large Cap,
Windsor II, Small Cap Index, Small Cap Value, REIT,
Total International and International Explorer.
The bond allocation is 10% each to the TIPS and
Intermediate Term Bond Index and 20% to Short
Term Investment Grade.

I recently moved my wife's IRA to Wellington from
Target Retirement 2025 but we are still using 2025
for our after tax account.

My trigger finger is itchy and I look lustfully toward
Energy and Precious Metals as we speak. I think
Energy may have topped out and may take a hit
soon. In any case, Windsor II has a lot of energy.
Precious Metals has been in a slump of late but
you are supposed to buy low, right? I might nibble
a little bit after the election but not more than 5%
for both combined. Emerging Markets is also tempting
but Total International and International Explorer both
have some exposure.

Cheers,

Charlie
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

I agree that energy may be topping out. But then again its a limited supply that isnt getting any cheaper. I also like that vanguards fund has a lot of pumpers and explorers and a lot of non-us companies in it. Some nice diversification in there.

By the way, I said I reinvest dividends, but I do it in a funny way and I dont think I've discussed here before.

I have a few funds (high yield corporate, reit, etc) that pump out a fairly strong and regular dividend. I dont reinvest those back into the same fund...I feed those dividends into Energy, Health Care, and Small Cap Value. I'm sort of getting a DCA from the old stalwarts into the stock rockets via these cross invested dividends. Since those are largely in my IRA, I dont care about the tax implications.

You might consider some of the better CD's and money market options rather than the short term bond funds. I got sick of dangling my capital for a 3% return. My credit unions paying 3% for 11 month cd's, 2.5% for 7 month cd's, and 2.25-2.5 for a "limited" money market that only allows one withdrawal per month. With no volatility of capital.
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

TH, as you may recall I am drawing down my "coffeehouse" at about a 6% rate for
living expenses. Since I am 70, RMD is a
factor as well. I use Short Term Investment
grade as the source of the monthly withdrawal .
It is the "rubber band" that I use for rebalancing
to 60/40 periodically.

The way I look at it, I am ahead if it does better
than a MM fund like Prime. I like the low hassle
factor of moving money in and out.

Even so, your suggestion has merit

Thanks,

Charlie
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

I confess to not understanding why some people enjoy
"rebalancing, juggling, reallocating, studying,
analyzing, buying/selling" etc. in ER. I would like to just
invest and forget it, and then just cash my checks
and only have to decide how to spend the money.
Obviously lots of visitors here enjoy this
activity in their investments (I think of unclemick's
hobby stocks). If you are enjoying yourself, that's great. I really would like to spend zero time on these
decisions, and thus concentrate on other stuff.
I'm not close yet but that is my wish.

John Galt
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

I confess to not understanding why some people enjoy
"rebalancing, juggling, reallocating, studying,
analyzing, buying/selling" etc. in ER. I would like to just
invest and forget it, and then just cash my checks
and only have to decide how to spend the money.

I agree. My head was starting to hurt just think about all the wheeling and dealing.
If this is the "work" that ERing requires to assure healthy FI after retiring then maybe I'll just keep my job making my 6 figures for another 5 years.

Cheers

MJ ;)
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Be careful about using these guys as examples. I suspect that both TH and Charlie are using "gut instincts" to time their moves. Otherwise known as momentum and emotion.

Not that the rest of us are any different. That's why "behavioral finance" sprung up to figure us out. Some of us never learn. Even after burning through a chunk of dough on bad QQQ bets :)
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Well John, different strokes for different folks. Its something I find fun and interesting, and its making me more money than the usual "autopilot" methods. So far. And I like making money. Its worth spending a few hours a month tending to.

Wab...I'm not sure what you're basing your 'suspicions' on, but do tell!! Is it a danish study? ;)

Either i've been pretty lucky for the last 12 years or maybe I just use a lot of common sense coupled with as much available data as possible...and very little "following the herd". In either case, I've clearly been fortunate, and will continue to ride the horse that got me here.

I think perhaps the weirdest things i see are people trying to time the market based on real financial data (when it moves emotionall), or people trying to invest for the long term on an emotional basis (when it moves factually).

I used to make great money in the late 90's by waiting at the mailbox for the mailman to drop off that months "Fortune" and running into the house to buy any stock they recommended...because I knew the cattle that would be reading at the end of the day, or buying on the newsstand in a day or two would rush to buy the same stocks...and then I sold a week later after the surge. I'm making good money now by avoiding the expections that indexes will create historic return levels on the back of valuations that are nearly insane.

To place a marker down, my 'guts' say that most stocks are going to suck in a very big way from about december of this year through about september of next year, when they're going to make a modest long term recovery. I'm looking at a 20-25% overall drop during that down period. REITS are also going to tank, dropping about a third.

See you back at this thread a year from now... :-*
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Wab...I'm not sure what you're basing your 'suspicions' on, but do tell!!  Is it a danish study? ;)
No, I'm sure I heard it from some guy at the University of Guelph, but he eats nothing but fish oil all day, so his opinions tend to be, umm, fishy  :)

BTW, are you the same TH who has a lifetime's worth of capital loss carry-forwards, or was that another TH?
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Oh man are the canadians going to be pissed at you. In fact they may move up the invasion over this.

At least their country isnt named after a fatty breakfast food item.

Losses. Oh absolutely. I took about 3% of my total net assets in losses right after a year in which my gains were in excess of 165%. I was very guilty of going to the same 'well' one too many times, but I did learn my lesson. I have and am now using those losses to leverage paying zero income taxes for the forseeable future.

Given that 3% loss, can you give me a comparison to how well you did in 2000? :)

How about 2001 or 2002, when I made enough off my port to live on while most lost money?

By the way, my belt is over here...if you're trying to hit below it you're going to have to orient yourself a little better ;)
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

At least their country isnt named after a fatty breakfast food item.
Oh, now you've done it. Who's going to clean up this nasal milk?

Given that 3% loss, can you give me a comparison to how well you did in 2000? :)

How about 2001 or 2002, when I made enough off my port to live on while most lost money?
Sorry, you're barking up the wrong tree. Call me a dirty market timer, but I liquidated 90% of my stock in Dec 1999, and stayed in munis till early 2003.

There was no doubt in my mind that the stock market had become unglued from reality by the end of 1999. And I was still wrong for a few months into 2000. Are you saying this market looks like that market? There's no comparison.
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Wab, I am not really a timer. I just wanted to get
into REIT and TIPS at the right time and was lucky
to do so. Both of these have now been rebalanced
back to my desired allocation.

As far as international exposure, I added International
Explorer just to bring my international allocation up
to 30% of my stock allocation. This was not a timing
move ..... and I was lucky (I hope) to get in the day
before they closed. I have already missed the gain
International Explorer has enjoyed this year.

My core portfolio is now set .....well maybe a small
tweak now and then. :)

However, I may dabble a little from time to time in
the future with targets of opportunity like Energy,
Emerging Markets and Precious Metals, but never
more than 5% of the total port.

I confess to suffering from the unclemick syndrome but
hopefully a little nibble here and there won't hurt me
much ...... and I do enjoy the hunt! :)

Cheers,

Charlie
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Hey Jarhead,

Maybe you should buy an old pharts rest home and
invite us "seasoned" ER vets to come swap lies and
not confuse the children. :) :)

Cheers,

Charlie
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Jarhead, you must have subscribed to my newsletter. Those are the same timing moves I recommended over the past 17 years. As you may remember from my last newsletter, my current recommendation is to stay in REITs until people start buying dog houses as speculative investments, and then switch to the next hot sector: anti-depression medications (a pure play for the inevitable post-mania blues).
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Jarhead...I'm still interested in adoption...either way...I'll adopt you, you adopt me...both good. Ready made grandson is even on the way.

It almost doesnt matter what you do, even if you only had 1/10th the stash.

I've thought over the past year about a 100% (or nearly so) REIT holding and living off the dividend. If prices drop by the 1/3 or so I think they will, I may push in that direction.

Wab...you know that old saw about a frog thrown into boiling water jumps out, but one put into a cold pan of water thats heated slowly wont notice?

We're a lot of slow boiled frogs. This market is over priced, over mean, and has strong potential for lousy, if any, earnings. From almost any sector. After that topless run-up in the late 90's, the "bear" that didnt even bring us back down to the mean, and the recent run-up...people still feel they're invulnerable in the stock market. Nobody was punished enough to correct the 'problem'.

But like I said, we'll get back to this in about a year and see if my gut had the right idea. Its not like I didnt use to make billions for my company by gauging and manipulating the way people feel...;)
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Wab, Chuck-Lynn, ShockwaveRider, TH:

Just having some fun. Anybody that has read my posts in the past, I'm sure would figure that out. (I'm not nearly as lucky, or as bright, to have pulled that off.)
Only part that was true was my wife and I on soc. sec., and need about $25,000 annually not to be in the poor house.

I got what I expected, some pretty funny comments from you guys. Wab with his comment about following his newsletter. Very creative. Chuck-Lynn commenting about buying a rest-home, with the understanding that it would be a place for the veterans to swap lies, and not confuse the children. TH with adoption possibilities.
TH, if you adopted me, we might be able to set a record for the oldest big brother on record. Shockwaverider, probably hadn't read any of my previous posts, and actually thought it wasn't bull----.
Giants and Dodgers are being televised today, so got to go.
Regards, Jarhead
 
Now there's a scary image...

"topless runup".

I'm glad no photos were posted.
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

I certainly intended that to have a double meaning... :)
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Sorry that my post kicked off such a "vigorous" discussion, but I think Mr. Brewer had it right early on - my hesitation to invest is mainly due to fear. Not so much fear of volatility, but fear that things could continue on in the doldrums for quite a while (or fear that prices would drop and THEN we'd languish in the doldrums). Since I'm sitting on a large (to me) amount of cash, DCA will be my best bet...if for no reason other than it lets me sleep easier at night.
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Soup,if i may,if your gonna DCA,do it across all your asset classes,so at least some part of your plan will show instant or near instant gratification.Its good for your head to see forward progress.LOL,even if another part of the plan is sinking,but thats the way it is unless you have extreme patience.Keep in mind also ,some personnality types have to be "IN"the game,so if you want to thro X $'s arbitrarily at a position perhaps only buy 30%,and wait a bit(how long is up to you,hours,days weeks)then pair in with more.Hopefully youve done some homework,and have a nice basket of assets on your watchlist.goodluck hope this helps--ak
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

This market is over priced, over mean, and has strong potential for lousy, if any, earnings.  From almost any sector.
As I was riding my bike today, I was thinking about the absurdity of trying to predict the direction of this market in the near-term.

First, as far as being "over priced," this market looks pretty much like the market of 1996 to me.   Pricey, but not (yet) crazy.   Estimates of the total market P/E range from about 17 to 20, which is certainly more sane than we've seen in several years.

I agree with you on the potential for poor forward earnings, but that's not a problem of current valuation.  That's more a question of recent earnings quality and sustainability, and if growth rates can't be sustained (which is my guess), then you're right, the market will correct to reflect the slower earnings growth.

But my main problem with your prediction is that this market has been going sideways for the entire year due to uncertainty.    Depending on how that uncertainty is resolved, the market will either rally like mad or retreat.

So to make an unconditional prediction as you have, I think you have to implicitly have decided:

1) Who will win the election in November
2) Where interest rates will be by the end of the year
3) Where inflation will be by the end of the year
4) How the economy will fare
5) The probability of a terrorist event in the coming months

My prediction is that if Bush wins, short-term interest rates stay below 3%, inflation stays below 3%, there's no major terrorist event, and the economy keeps going sideways, stocks will rally, we'll have a bull market for the next 4-5 years, and that will be followed by a *long* bear market as the chickens come home to roost.

If Kerry wins, stocks will immediately crater before he even takes office as *everybody* takes advantage of low cap gains taxes before he raises them.
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

'Value' is strickly a matter of perception.

I do not agree. When you buy a share of stock, you are buying a portial ownership interest in a business. The business is worth something--it has value. Your partial ownership interest has value too.

Andrew Smithers makes the point that it is a good thing that long-term stock returns can be predicted within a reasonable range of error by looking at valuations. Imagine what it would mean if this were not so, if stock prices were just random numbers that popped up with no connection to real values. In that event, stock investing would be the equivalent of gambling.

The reason why stock investing is not gambling is that the returns you obtain from your investment are tied to the value of the enterprise underlying the investment. It logically follows that the probability of getting a satisfactory return is greater when you purchase at a price lower than the real value and lower when you purchase at a price higher than the real value.
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

Part of the perception of current stock value is alot of negativity in the press.
That's right. In the short-term, value is completely subjective and the only way to predict moves is to predict both the world events and human behavior (which TH believes he has pegged).

In the long run, it's true that stock value is more reflective of economic growth. Unfortunately, a lot of things point to slower long-term economic growth, so I expect "stocks for the long run" will become a quaint outmoded notion, and predicting short-term human behavior will become a growth industry.
 
Re: Mr. Negativity: all my investment options stin

More of that damn honking!!!

So to make an unconditional prediction as you have, I think you have to implicitly have decided:

1) Who will win the election in November
2) Where interest rates will be by the end of the year
3) Where inflation will be by the end of the year
4) How the economy will fare
5) The probability of a terrorist event in the coming months

Actually I dont have to have implicitly decided any of those things. Once again, an example of someone trying to apply science and logic to short term market movements, when the short term market moves on psychology and emotion.

With regards to these items, I dont believe who wins in november will make any difference, either way we'll get a post election rally. Wanna know why? Because "everybody" says we "always do", so the herd will follow suit to be "in the market before the rally".

Besides, Kerry has about as much chance of winning as I do. I predict he'll be making a long speech about how his experience in vietnam helped prepare him for his concession speech.

Interest rates dont matter either. So far they're almost doubled from last year this time and the upticks havent really affected stocks OR bonds substantially. Everybody knows the fed was going to raise them, the fed did, and everybody knows they're going to raise them another quarter to half point. Its already baked in. Its not a surprise.

Inflation isnt going to go substantially higher or lower for the next year or two, at least as measured by CPI, and it wont go higher because the people who calculate CPI dont want it to. I am bemused that we let the same people calculate the CPI who also look better if its low and further dont have to pay out more money in cost of living adjustments. Further, I believe "real" inflation nationwide to be in the 5-6% range, and I think that most people buy into CPI and think its 2-3. Therefore to most people it isnt a problem that needs fixing, and to folks who benefit from a little extra inflation, its making them happy too. We simply have a bunch of people wondering why things cost so much more now than they did ten years ago, and not making the connection...

Economy wise, many leading economic indicators that have proven fairly accurate in the past say that by the start of the new year we'll be on an economic downtrend that will persist until we reach a recessionary level (again), around september of next year. That wont make investors very happy and they'll accellerate taking money off the table.

As far as a terrorist event goes, I cant believe we havent had another one yet.

But the bottom line is my primary basis for believing tough times are ahead is the fact that this is not a true economic recovery, its a credit card economic recovery. And a lot of the credit used has been drawn from inflated home equity built on a bubble. There are ten different ways the air can be let out of this one, but no way it can continue indefinitely. We're not living on top of a healthy economy, we just went into debt to make it look good. Both as individuals and our government.

The only question is, does the air come out all at once, a little at a time, or do we just wait 10 years until the balloon gets bigger.

I'm hoping beyond hope it comes out all at once so we can get back to normal quicker and move on.

But like I said, all this dialog is meaningless. Lets come back to it next year and see what happened.
 
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