Plant based diet

[chassis]

Just watched The Game Changers on netflix. Good movie; I consider it a documentary.
https://gamechangersmovie.com/

I am aligned with the movie's favorable view toward a plant-based diet. My experience with a plant-focused diet has been a good one, relative to weight, body composition and mood/energy. I am not a competitive athlete, just an average person trying to live a healthy lifestyle.

Has anyone watched this film? What are your views?

p.s. I used the search feature on this site, and the film has been mentioned in passing on previous threads, but there was no discussion about the film itself, or its content.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Alot of BS in the film. Similar BS to "What the Health". You can search the internet for reviews and critiques.

 

[bloom2708]

I have been whole food, plant based for nearly 3 years.

I first watched Forks Over Knives in 2011. I started dabbling with replacing some meals.

Slowly built up momentum and ideas and eventually made the full switch as I watched family and relatives die horrible deaths from things that could be avoided.

It is the food (and drink and smoke and pills).

I encourage you to dig in a replace certain meals. The hardest parts are family gatherings and eating out. Many restaurants have options, but some do not.

I bring my own food when the scenario is right.

Some good links:

https://nutritionstudies.org/whole-food-plant-based-diet-guide/

https://nutritionfacts.org/

https://www.drmcdougall.com/

https://www.forksoverknives.com/how...er-beginners-guide-starting-plant-based-diet/

https://plantbasednews.org/

https://vegnews.com/

https://thebeet.com/

Good luck starting your journey. Even if you only dabble or reduce some animal based foods, it is a win.

 

[chassis]

Alot of BS in the film. Similar BS to "What the Health". You can search the internet for reviews and critiques.

@RetiredHappy thanks. What is(are) the most egregious BS example(s) you saw in the film?

 

[RetiredHappy]

@RetiredHappy thanks. What is(are) the most egregious BS example(s) you saw in the film?

Try these couple of links. I am a skeptic when I watch films which tout as documentaries and suspicious when claims are made. After watching, I usually go off and see what others are saying.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/game-changers-review#unpacking-its-claims

https://ketogenic.com/debunking-the-game-changers/

 

[chassis]

Try these couple of links. I am a skeptic when I watch films which tout as documentaries and suspicious when claims are made. After watching, I usually go off and see what others are saying.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/game-changers-review#unpacking-its-claims

https://ketogenic.com/debunking-the-game-changers/

@RetiredHappy thanks again. When you watched the film, what are the top two or three points that you assign the label “BS” to?

 

[Out_the_Door]

i like eating animals

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Most of the Blue Zones, areas of the world where people live the longest, eat plant based, though most are not 100% vegans. In the American Blue Zone, Loma Linda, I've seen some studies showing the full vegans lived the longest and others where pescatarians lived the longest. The pescatarians tended to eat salmon frequently. We had been modeling our diets on the longevity and anti-cancer researchers - Valter Longo, William Li, Blue Zone researchers. At first we got healthier, but then developed some other health issues. Most of our cancer biomarkers were very good, but we went to far in the other direction. Like diabetes and metabolic syndrome are linked to high uric acid, high blood pressure, high platelet count, high BMI etc. and some of our biomarkers and gut bacteria actually got too low in the other direction. So now we've been working our way back to the optimal middle ground.

I think part of the issue with meat is that hunter gatherers eat snout to tail, including organs and bone marrow, which have higher levels of nutrition than just eating high amounts of muscle meats over and over again. Link: 'Offal is unbeatable': UK doctors push health and environmental benefits of organ meats (foodnavigator.com).

I don't believe there is one diet that fits all. What we've been doing is extensive biomarker, nutrition and gut testing, modifying our diets / taking supplements / making lifestyle changes as needed and it has worked out really well. DH and I were on really different places in terms of some of the tests and have had to eat differently based on our individual biomarkers.

Both low and high uric acid are linked to lower mortality, so the best diet for an individual might depend in part on optimizing that lab test score as well as other biomarkers - Both High and Low Uric Acid Levels Tied to Higher Mortality - Rheumatology Advisor. The DASH diet and Mediterranean diet both tend to lower uric acid levels so may not be the best for everyone unless they really adapt them to fit their own biochemical individuality. There are similar yin and yang issues with Prevotella gut bacteria. We all have different genes, environmental factors, gut bacteria, diets, exercise habits, etc. so managing the biomarkers and gut bacteria seem the best way to optimize health.

 

[chassis]

@daylatedollarshort thanks for the Blue Zones mention, new one on me. I'll read about it.

What did you think when you watched the film? What points resonated with you, or created discord?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

@daylatedollarshort thanks for the Blue Zones mention, new one on me. I'll read about it.

What did you think when you watched the film? What points resonated with you, or created discord?

I didn't watch that video as by the time I heard about it I had already read a lot of books and watched other videos on the pros and cons of plant based diets. Right now we're just each trying to follow diets to improve our biomarkers, which includes a lot of plant and whole foods and varying amounts of animal protein. DH seems to need more meat than I do to stay healthy, and from what we've researched so far, some of it seems to be genetic, or at least a family influenced microbiome.

 

[bloom2708]

Most of the Blue Zones, areas of the world where people live the longest, eat plant based, though most are not 100% vegans. In the American Blue Zone, Loma Linda, I've seen some studies showing the full vegans lived the longest and others where pescatarians lived the longest. The pescatarians tended to eat salmon frequently. We had been modeling our diets on the longevity and anti-cancer researchers - Valter Longo, William Li, Blue Zone researchers. At first we got healthier, but then developed some other health issues. Most of our cancer biomarkers were very good, but we went to far in the other direction. Like diabetes and metabolic syndrome are linked to high uric acid, high blood pressure, high platelet count, high BMI etc. and some of our biomarkers and gut bacteria actually got too low in the other direction. So now we've been working our way back to the optimal middle ground.

I think part of the issue with meat is that hunter gatherers eat snout to tail, including organs and bone marrow, which have higher levels of nutrition than just eating high amounts of muscle meats over and over again. Link: 'Offal is unbeatable': UK doctors push health and environmental benefits of organ meats (foodnavigator.com).

I don't believe there is one diet that fits all. What we've been doing is extensive biomarker, nutrition and gut testing, modifying our diets / taking supplements / making lifestyle changes as needed and it has worked out really well. DH and I were on really different places in terms of some of the tests and have had to eat differently based on our individual biomarkers.

Both low and high uric acid are linked to lower mortality, so the best diet for an individual might depend in part on optimizing that lab test score as well as other biomarkers - Both High and Low Uric Acid Levels Tied to Higher Mortality - Rheumatology Advisor. The DASH diet and Mediterranean diet both tend to lower uric acid levels so may not be the best for everyone unless they really adapt them to fit their own biochemical individuality. There are similar yin and yang issues with Prevotella gut bacteria. We all have different genes, environmental factors, gut bacteria, diets, exercise habits, etc. so managing the biomarkers and gut bacteria seem the best way to optimize health.

Can you detail out this statement?:

At first we got healthier, but then developed some other health issues. Most of our cancer biomarkers were very good, but we went to far in the other direction.

I can't tell from all the information exactly what you were eating? plant based + fish?

I'm not sure where uric acid fits in with a whole food, plant based diet. Certainly a lot of varied information to ingest.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Can you detail out this statement?:

At first we got healthier, but then developed some other health issues. Most of our cancer biomarkers were very good, but we went to far in the other direction.

I can't tell from all the information exactly what you were eating? plant based + fish?

I'm not sure where uric acid fits in with a whole food, plant based diet. Certainly a lot of varied information to ingest.

We were following diets the longevity researchers recommended, like in the Blue Zones and Valter Longo research. But what we learned is that, for us, it is more really about balance. Many health experts and dieticians tend to recommend the Mediterranean and DASH diets as a one size fits all diet for many disorders, but both those diets tend to lower uric acid levels, and low uric acid levels are linked to many chronic conditions. Doctors tend to check for disorders like gout, diabetes and metabolic syndrome - high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high BMI, high platelet counts, high uric acid, high A1C, high IGF-1, which tend to go together. They think in terms of good and bad. High is bad, low is good.

Too low cholesterol, low blood pressure, low BMI, low platelet count, low uric acid, low IGF-1, low A1C may be just as unhealthy. We still eat plant based, but we're eating more saturated fat and meat and less beans, whole grains and fruit now trying to get back to an optimal middle ground on our biomarkers. We're testing every nutrient, key biomarkers, doing the gut tests and trying to optimize all our test scores. We've used the Breseden protocol as a base, and adding in the gut tests and expanding on the protocol to add in more checkpoints. The only downside is it is expensive and time consuming, but good health is really priceless.

I believe this is really the future of medicine - individualized diets and exercise programs based on one's individual biochemical needs.

 

[bloom2708]

We were following diets the longevity researchers recommended, like in the Blue Zones and Valter Longo research. But what we learned is that, for us, it is more really about balance. Many health experts and dieticians tend to recommend the Mediterranean and DASH diets as a one size fits all diet for many disorders, but both those diets tend to lower uric acid levels, and low uric acid levels are linked to many chronic conditions. Doctors tend to check for disorders like gout, diabetes and metabolic syndrome - high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high BMI, high platelet counts, high uric acid, high A1C, high IGF-1, which tend to go together. They think in terms of good and bad. High is bad, low is good.

Too low cholesterol, low blood pressure, low BMI, low platelet count, low uric acid, low IGF-1, low A1C may be just as unhealthy. We still eat plant based, but we're eating more saturated fat and meat and less beans, whole grains and fruit now trying to get back to an optimal middle ground on our biomarkers. We're testing every nutrient, key biomarkers, doing the gut tests and trying to optimize all our test scores. We've used the Breseden protocol as a base, and adding in the gut tests and expanding on the protocol to add in more checkpoints. The only downside is it is expensive and time consuming, but good health is really priceless.

I believe this is really the future of medicine - individualized diets and exercise programs based on one's individual biochemical needs.

Interesting. So you went on a plant based diet and lost too much weight?

Did you use supplements for B12, D2, Iodine, Magnesium?

You both had one or more of these items?:

Too low cholesterol, low blood pressure, low BMI, low platelet count, low uric acid, low IGF-1, low A1C

Thanks for the information. It is a jungle out there.

 

[easysurfer]

Think I'd go with the everything in moderation approach. Wouldn't want to over do plant based or a a meat eater.

I still haven't tried an Impossible Burger and still want to try someday to do my own taste test. But as for health of an impossible vs just a burger, isn't the jury still out?

I do have a guilty pleasure these days of making a pub burger, medium, still pink inside. I blame to sous vide cooker for that .

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Interesting. So you went on a plant based diet and lost too much weight?

Did you use supplements for B12, D2, Iodine, Magnesium?

You both had one or more of these items?:

Too low cholesterol, low blood pressure, low BMI, low platelet count, low uric acid, low IGF-1, low A1C

Thanks for the information. It is a jungle out there.

The general answer to your questions was already in the post you quoted.

 

[Kroeran]

My current diet follows a repetitive routine of plant <based> meal bases, with a non veg protein element ie

Oatmeal,/Oatbran, with a lot of frozen blueberries and butter for taste
1 egg French toast with tomato sauce
Pasta with frozen spinach and a some sausage for the organ meats
Large Cobb Salad for supper with a boiled egg and a little ham
Breaded fish and greens sandwich before bed. I don’t restrict fish

Just try to not be weird when eating socially.

After years of whole grains and beans, I have switched to high quality white sourdough, regular pasta, and boost fibre with Metamucil, for a variety of reasons, and avoid legumes which make me and the household uncomfortable.

 

[Dogman]

Seven or more important points that need to be stated.
1. Oatmeal, processed food, meat substitutes are being pushed by the food industry for higher profit only, not nutrition.
2. Oatmeal and cereals were original created to sell horse feed to people for increased profit to the producers. Search articles about 7th day Adventist and Kellogg.
3. Man since the beginning of time have been carnivores. They did not graze like cattle.
4. When eating meat you get all the nutrients all vitamins. No supplement are needed.
5. From personal experience I have know several vegans that after 3 to 5 years their bodies were so depleted they experienced a variety of illnesses. They changed to a meat only diet and recovered.
6. Google vegans change to carnivor or keto. See the hundreds of people who have recovered.
7. I personally do not eat vegetables maybe occasionly brussels sprouts just to change it up a little. I eat read meat and some limited sea food. My recent coronary calcium scan revealed I have result of 0 calcium-containing plaque in my arteries.

Without going into a long discussion just google Carnivore diet, Dr. Shawn Baker, Dr. Saliso?, even Joe Rogan. I am healthy as a horse with no arterial plaque. I have check both my heart and neck the results were zero plaque.

 

[athena53]

I try to keep my a1c and cholesterol under control without meds (a1c typically hovers under 6.0 but I want to keep it that way, and my LDL runs high). I rarely eat meat when cooking for myself but make sure to get plenty of yogurt and eggs and sometimes add quinoa or other plant-based protein sources. I'm a little more flexible when dining out or with family; will gravitate towards fish or vegetarian options at restaurants and always load up on vegetables.

I agree on not getting numbers too low- I have osteopenia in my hips and have started taking calcium and magnesium; low BMI (under 20) puts me at risk for osteoporosis. A friend had really low cholesterol but had a heart attack anyway- he had almost no HDL!

Haven't tried Beyond Meat and other plant-based substitutes. I'd rather have the "real" version of something rather than an imitation version. The idea of "tofurkey" makes me shudder. Give me an honest dish made with chunks of tofu, a good sauce and vegetables any day.

 

[bloom2708]

My observation on tofurky...

It is delicious. It has the taste and texture of turkey. The center has stuffing in it.

Very easy to bake. No shuddering needed. It does not have the soft tofu texture. 99% of those who hate it have never tried it. That is fine. Many roads to Dublin.

My 76 year old dad tried it and said "that is pretty good...". Then he had a second tofurky whole grain wheat sandwich.

Is tofurkey a health food? Not even close, but it is a good alternative for those trying to slim down their meat/egg/dairy intake? Yes. Give it a try. It might surprise you.

 

[aja8888]

I just turned 78. No health problems, take one med (Flowmax generic), 5.1 A1C, Lipid panel that my 35 year old female PCP wishes was hers. Not fat, walk 10,000 steps per day, play good golf once per week. Eat anything......I'm living on the edge.

 

[bloom2708]

I just turned 78. No health problems, take one med (Flowmax generic), 5.1 A1C, Lipid panel that my 35 year old female PCP wishes was hers. Not fat, walk 10,000 steps per day, play good golf once per week. Eat anything......I'm living on the edge.

Congrats on your exception-alism.

Would you say you are the exception or the norm based on your observations of the general public?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Without going into a long discussion just google Carnivore diet, Dr. Shawn Baker, Dr. Saliso?, even Joe Rogan. I am healthy as a horse with no arterial plaque. I have check both my heart and neck the results were zero plaque.

Good for you for finding what works for you. I'm curious though if you have done other tests like gut, IGF-1 or nutrition tests? It seems like eating only meat is the opposite of what the gut researchers say results in the healthiest microbiomes - "It turned out that people who had the healthiest guts, which is generally the most diverse guts, were the people eating more than 30 different types of plant in a week," says Dr. Spector." - https://www.wellandgood.com/how-to-improve-gut-health-naturally/

 

[aja8888]

Congrats on your exception-alism.

Would you say you are the exception or the norm based on your observations of the general public?

Don't know, but I have several friends over 70 that are pretty healthy guys (and gals) that I see and do things with regularly. In my golf group, one friend who up until his recent stroke at 85+ years old, was hanging in there and was the leader of the golf activities.

The thing about older healthy, active people is that they generally don't spend a lot of time around those that are not doing the same things they are so it's hard to gauge norms.

Funny thing about those strokes, they seem to not be choosy as to who they take out. Three people I know had either TIA's (mini strokes) or a full fledged one in the last two years. And those three people are very active and healthy.

 

[Major Tom]

I stopped eating meat several years ago, with the exception of fish. I have not done a great deal of reading on the nutritional aspects, except to figure out that I would most likely be fine. I came to the realization that I liked animals so much, I no longer wanted to eat them. If I lived in a situation where access to a good pescatarian diet was not possible, I'd eat meat. However, the easy access we have in first world countries to a wide variety of foods is almost embarrassing, especially in well-populated areas.