Preparing for the 22nd Century

[Gumby]

I will, of course, never see the 22nd Century. However, I have been giving some thought to it anyway. While the young wife and I do not have children, we do have a niece and eight nephews. And they now have young children who probably will live to see the year 2100. Specifically, I have been thinking about the world those great nephews will live in if climate change continues unabated. While I feel that my remaining life will not be radically affected - even though I live on the ocean, I am 25 feet above sea level - theirs probably will be. And their children and grandchildren even more so. Indeed, from the things I have read, portions of this country may become uninhabitable in the next century due to heat, drought, wildfire risk, storm risk, flooding, etc.

Separately, as I was doing genealogical research, it occurred to me how nice it would have been if some far seeing ancestor had thought a hundred years ago to set a little something aside to provide for his or her descendants today. And an idea begin to take shape. To wit: after some research, I have identified an area in the US that I think will be the most habitable in a hundred years should we not get a handle on climate change. It is currently lightly populated and land there is cheap, but if the worst happens, I suspect it will become popular. And I wonder if it wouldn't be wise for me to buy some land there now to leave to the descendants of my siblings one hundred years hence. To my mind, it wouldn't need to be developed, just held in the family so that they have a safe place to go when the time comes. I have enough spare cash easily to buy at least a hundred acres, so the land would hold quite a few families.

I'm not sure of the best way to handle the logistics of such a thing. Would I just bequeath it to one or more of my nephews on my death, set up a trust or something else? I would welcome any thoughts on those logistics, as well as the underlying idea. No need to turn it into a debate on climate change, but assuming that will occur, does it make sense to pick a place and prepare now?

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Tetto]

Sounds a bit dramatic, but its possible. Maybe the thing to do is establish a home there now, or "camp" so to speak. Have family vacations there, camping, maybe build a nice log home there together. Make it a family effort and they'll keep coming back every year.

 

[Aerides]

We have thought a bit about this, given we live in Florida, the projections don't have to be off by much for us to find our home uninsurable in the next 20 years.

And that's the thing - even though life might be fine, if the risk is higher and you can't insure your home, then I expect the exodus to start, and yes the idea of finding a plot in a desirable future area has been a topic of discussion.

Of course, the issues are far from coastal flooding and hurricanes, but overall volatility. Flash flooding of rivers, earthquakes, tornadoes, fires, heat waves...it's hard to find an area that doesn't have one or more which will all increase.

So I do think picking out a place is a good idea, assuming it requires no development or maintenance for the interim.

 

[6miths]

An interesting idea. I wonder if there is more upside to putting the same amount of money in the stock market and letting it ride for 100 years. Wouldn't it likely have more value than land which tends to appreciate at the rate of inflation. Definitely it would give more flexibility and I would think take less in the way of administration. I guess the upside is that it is harder to liquidate a piece of far flung land.

In your opinion, where were the top spots. I can guess where some might be. I'm in Canada so this time of year we are always rooting hard for global warming! Just kidding of course!!

 

[Gumby]

Sounds a bit dramatic, but its possible. Maybe the thing to do is establish a home there now, or "camp" so to speak. Have family vacations there, camping, maybe build a nice log home there together. Make it a family effort and they'll keep coming back every year.

I was noodling along the same lines. If it is just some distant piece of land they never see, they'll probably just want to sell it when they need cash.

 

[Tetto]

I was noodling along the same lines. If it is just some distant piece of land they never see, they'll probably just want to sell it when they need cash.

Perhaps some language could be written in your will that its never to be sold? I think its a really cool idea and have a friend that does something like this in Vermont. Bought land, built a place in the boonies (its actually very nice, other side of Mt Mansfield/Stowe). But either way, even if nothing ever happens, your family will be closer together, which is a good thing.

 

[OldShooter]

What you are talking about is pretty much what is called a "cabin trust." The general scenario is for handing down a cabin to multiple heirs. The trust holds the real estate and is funded with enough money to cover some amount of future expenses. If you use that phrase when you talk to an attorney they will understand. Best to have an attorney that is familiar with them and has done a few.

This can be a "perpetual trust," but a perpetual trust is permitted in some states but not in others. One of the recent exposé document dumps listed a lot of activity in South Dakota, which does permit perpetual trusts.

 

[Sunset]

An interesting idea. I wonder if there is more upside to putting the same amount of money in the stock market and letting it ride for 100 years. Wouldn't it likely have more value than land which tends to appreciate at the rate of inflation. Definitely it would give more flexibility and I would think take less in the way of administration. I guess the upside is that it is harder to liquidate a piece of far flung land.

In your opinion, where were the top spots. I can guess where some might be. I'm in Canada so this time of year we are always rooting hard for global warming! Just kidding of course!!

This is our situation. My grandfather built a place in 1920 on an isolated island you could only get to by train, then row a boat after being dropped off at a creek that lead to the lake. He spent an outrageous amount of money back then to do it, a total of $2K.



Now this island paradise is worth ~$100K on a good day. Calculators show me had he invested in the stock market in 1920 and let it ride, it would be approximately $52 Million....



People tell me the memories are priceless

 

[Gumby]

....
Now this island paradise is worth ~$100K on a good day. Calculators show me had he invested in the stock market in 1920 and let it ride, it would be approximately $52 Million....
...

I suppose if they had the future equivalent of $52 million, they could make their own choice as to where would be the best place to go.

 

[braumeister]

Calculators show me had he invested in the stock market in 1920 and let it ride, it would be approximately $52 Million....

IIRC there is a mention in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy of depositing a penny at some point and letting it compound over time in order to afford a meal at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

 

[ScoopKona]

I bought this farm with an eye toward societal chaos.

I have elevation, isolation, self-sufficiency, predictable weather, and an easily-defensible position. Even ocean current shift shouldn't affect our predictable weather, as we do not rely on them now.

What I didn't know is that I would have mere months to deal with the first bout of societal chaos.

 

[MichaelB]

I remember an uncle who bought some undeveloped land for family recreational use in WVA. He complained the property needed vigilance and unchallenged trespassing might lead to some loss of rights.

Buying and setting aside land for future generations might be a valuable way to contribute to their welfare, especially if it doesn’t require a large current investment. My concern would be losing ownership, usability or some rights because of long term owner absence. Are there any trusts or associations that can help manage this for a nominal fee?

 

[stepford]

I note the OP is being somewhat cagey about the locale of his climate resistant preserve. If we promise not to jump in and buy up a bunch of acreage can the secret be revealed?

 

[Sunset]

I remember an uncle who bought some undeveloped land for family recreational use in WVA. He complained the property needed vigilance and unchallenged trespassing might lead to some loss of rights.

Buying and setting aside land for future generations might be a valuable way to contribute to their welfare, especially if it doesn’t require a large current investment. My concern would be losing ownership, usability or some rights because of long term owner absence. Are there any trusts or associations that can help manage this for a nominal fee?

You would need to visit the property once a year or maybe every couple of years. Issue would be that relatives might have less desire to go walk the property and could lose it to squatters.

 

[Physics Guy]

I've toyed with a similar thought but I've always come back to the idea that an undeveloped or very slightly developed piece of land isn't much good. Perhaps your decedents will move too it at some point but there is a good chance that it will always remain in the boondocks and if it does become desirable it will be taken over by others either in unchallenged trespassing or some form of imminent domain.

On the other hand I am thinking that if and when I move I'll take climate change into account for a time frame more in line with my lifespan so at a bare minimum I'm not saddling my children with uninsurable or unsellable real estate.

 

[Sunset]

I suppose if they had the future equivalent of $52 million, they could make their own choice as to where would be the best place to go.

Of course, the reality is that a pile of cash/stock would not be left by the future heir for generations, but would often be spent and disappear.

 

[Sunset]

I note the OP is being somewhat cagey about the locale of his climate resistant preserve. If we promise not to jump in and buy up a bunch of acreage can the secret be revealed?

OP might be thinking of land in Canada, currently an exchange rate gives $1.20 per USD so the land is cheap.
They have a LOT and a small population.
Gives the hedge of a foreign Country so not all $$ is tied to USD.

One issue I can see besides property taxes is how does one avoid liability where some trespasser breaks their leg on your property ?

 

[JoeWras]

The shoreline has and always be ephemeral.

Move away from the ocean.

 

[old medic]

we are building our little homestead to be as self-sufficient as possible, and leave it to the Grandson... At 10 he enjoys hanging out here and working in the garden.

 

[Bamaman]

I was very fortunate to be the beneficiary of a family property purchased by my grandmother in 1945. My father and I built a 1800 square foot modern cabin on a deep water lake with a 7 mile waterfront view to the sunset. The land alone is worth 100x what my grandmother paid for it.

We moved 300 miles to setup for ER, and to be close enough to maintain the property. My parents then passed on, and the lake house was inherited by my sister and I. Her family was more interested in their condo in Aspen, and never came to the lake.

I eventually had to come up with substantial cash to purchase her interest in the property. Most families would have just sold the house and moved on.

When owners of land are in the twilight of their time on earth, secondary real estate can be a burden to heirs. And splitting a farm amongst a bunch of relative heirs wouldn't be fair to them. There's more things here than combating global warming by being a caretaker of land. In most situations, it just won't work.

 

[Bigdawg]

The shoreline has and always be ephemeral.

Move away from the ocean.

^This. I have lived on water basically my whole life. Lake Superior, The Mississippi, Okinawa, San Diego, currently on the Potomac. I have seen shoreline/water level changes in each of those locations over short/long periods of time. In the 9.5 years I have been on my current property I have gained approximately 8 feet of additional beach front. My neighbors closer to the point have lost more than 8 feet. My closest neighbors are having to add to the end of thier piers (I don't have one). The neighbors closer to the point have had to add additions from the shoreline. We are dealing with mutiple state and federal agencies regarding this issue. Without getting into a climate change discussion, let's just agree that living on/near the water has it's challenges.

 

[Gumby]

Of course, the reality is that a pile of cash/stock would not be left by the future heir for generations, but would often be spent and disappear.

And I guess that is the heart of the issue. My siblings have children and grandchildren in the here and now who have needs for funds. Maybe things will improve for my family in the future, but right now none of them have money or are likely ever to have any. So anything left directly to them probably will be spent immediately. My situation is fundamentally different in that I have no children and do have money. Hence, I am really the only one with the luxury of taking a long view as to the fortunes of the Gens Gumbia.

 

[splitwdw]

He has stated the US is where he's found property. Why would he post where this ideal place is located?
There would be too many family members involved for a communal land venture to succeed. You would be better off teaching your family members how to succeed in life now than try to leave what you think could be a safe location in the future. Maybe an open strip mine will open next door to your ideal location in 75 years. How about that asteroid that's coming? lol
Contact your niece and nephews and tell them you would like to have Zoom classes on finances and investing to teach them how they can be ready for the future. Better yet for those that sign up for your class, since you are financially better off, after they have taken a couple of classes and passed their tests send them each $1,000. to fund their lessons. Do not mention the $1,000. signup bonus until after the classes have begun.
It's a great idea to plan for the future for yourself but thinking 100 years ahead for future family members you don't know doesn't sound like it would succeed.

 

[Gumby]

The problem with my family members is not that they don't know how to save and invest money, it's that they can't generate it in the first place. I am still the first and only college graduate in the family.

 

[omni550]

The problem with my family members is not that they don't know how to save and invest money, it's that they can't generate it in the first place. I am still the first and only college graduate in the family.

Gumby,

Perhaps consider educational scholarships for current relatives instead of buying raw land to be used by some unknown Gumby-decendants decades from now?

In doing genealogy work, a few years ago I found an older relative who had married into a family that has a thriving scholarship program. It was set up a generation or two ago. They even issue a small annual bulletin with updates how past recipients are doing and which young relatives have been awarded new scholarships.

Sort of like "teach them to fish instead of give them a fish".

omni