Repeat of the 1880s?

In the market-driven system I'm familiar with, that order of events is usually reversed -- workers are laid off as employers try to maintain profits, and the survivors have get more productive to pick up the slack. There's nothing like a recession to increase worker productivity.

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Just saw this in the recent recession. Skilled heads were cut across the board and salaries eroded, now the unfortunate ones are still slaving away with even more impossible deadlines than before. I just lived that life, got a tee shirt when I retired too. Happily I didn't have to be chained to the never ending 24 hour a day 7 day a week commitment.
 
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Just saw this in the recent recession. Skilled heads were cut across the board and salaries eroded, now the unfortunate ones are still slaving away with even more impossible deadlines than before.

Reminds me of that old poster: "We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, have done so much with so little for so long that we are now qualified to do anything with nothing".
 
It's always tough to predict the future, but I do lean towards agreeing with this view. It will be very tough to deal with every situation out there, and each error will attract attention and lawsuits. Even if the overall safety is better (the media/public won't do the math, just respond to the 'sensation').

I think we will see more and more 'assistance' to help keep the driver from danger. The risk is the driver pays less attention, counting on the system. I think this should be augmented with a system to monitor the driver's attention - are the retinas scanning the road ahead, the mirrors, is the car drifting, slowing or speeding in an odd pattern? If anything looks questionable, get the driver's attention, threaten to pull over and disable the vehicle if they don't pay attention to the road. Stop texting.

Maybe special roadways with only smart vehicles on them (or maybe limited to certain times or even a buffer zone - the first and last smart vehicle in a group of smart vehicles would have LED signs that only other smart cars can enter that zone?). Maybe the road could use some lower, more reliable tech like a cable or something buried to make it way easier for the vehicle to follow the road than camera/GPS? Smart vehicles on that road would all have 'beacons', so every other vehicle 'knows' where they are, and proper distance is maintained.

But with a buffer zone, other vehicles could share that road, it would not be only for the smart vehicles. That might make the transition easier?

-ERD50

It sure seems that technology moves ever faster than one thinks possible Daimler to test self-driving trucks in Germany this year: paper | Reuters
 
The article does not describe the exact capability of the self-driving truck, but has the following word: semi-autonomous. This looks similar to the recent efforts by a few other truck companies, whose autopilots are meant to reduce driver fatigue on highways, and not to replace him. The driver must be awake, and ready to takeover if the system encounters difficult situations that it cannot handle (how that is defined and detected is not fully described).

Efforts to make autonomous cars have been ongoing since 1980. For example,

... in 1995, Dickmanns' re-engineered autonomous S-Class Mercedes-Benz undertook a 990 miles (1,590 km) journey from Munich in Bavaria, Germany to Copenhagen, Denmark and back, using saccadic computer vision and transputers to react in real time. The robot achieved speeds exceeding 109 miles per hour (175 km/h) on the German Autobahn, with a mean time between human interventions of 5.6 miles (9.0 km), or 95% autonomous driving. It drove in traffic, executing manoeuvres to pass other cars...

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_autonomous_car.

To achieve 100% autonomy is the hardest part, particularly in crowded cities where the computer needs AI (artificial intelligence) to handle complex situations, not merely keeping the vehicle on the road and avoiding hitting the vehicle in front.
 
The article does not describe the exact capability of the self-driving truck, but has the following word: semi-autonomous. This looks similar to the recent efforts by a few other truck companies, whose autopilots are meant to reduce driver fatigue on highways, and not to replace him. The driver must be awake, and ready to takeover if the system encounters difficult situations that it cannot handle (how that is defined and detected is not fully described).
Let me give you an example of a simple "difficult situation":

SNOW

Slippery conditions, lane markings obscured, signs obscured, unpredictable drivers. Etc.

I've been reading a little on this. There are a lot of things that have to happen for the 100% hands off self driving vehicle. It will come, but there's a lot of work to do. And then there is a generation of vehicles that must age out.

A few details they are working on: V2V (vehicle to vehicle) communication. This is crucial. Even more crucial is the ability to map the car to 6 inches. This helps with the snow problem I mentioned above. Today most navigation systems are more like 20 ft. It is a solveable problem.

But then consider another difficult situation:

ROAD CONSTRUCTION

Great, you can map the car on the known road to 6 inches. But they just moved the lanes by 12 ft. Now what? What if there are no lane markers during this time? Do we just stop cars from using roads during construction? What if it is foggy or snowy in a new construction zone.

Lots and lots of problems.
 
Great, you can map the car on the known road to 6 inches. But they just moved the lanes by 12 ft. Now what? What if there are no lane markers during this time? Do we just stop cars from using roads during construction? What if it is foggy or snowy in a new construction zone.
When I was a kid reading Popular Science, they were talking about buried cables in the road. Those huge infrastructure improvements were a huge obstacle. But those inventors/science writers who wrote those articles had no idea we'd have intense computing power for so cheap. There was no such thing as a digital camera back then, how could they imagine feeding hundreds of images per second into some software that would manage to control a vehicle? They just couldn't imagine that, I'm pretty sure.

I'm no expert on this, but from what I've been able to ascertain, GPS is only part of the solution; it supports the general location and route selection, but isn't used on a millisecond basis to position the car....that's done by vision systems. So the same thing that allows human drivers to keep in the altered lanes during construction (orange drums) are also used by the vehicle guidance system. And the same clues that keep a human driver from driving off the road when rain or darkness obscures the strong lane indicators, well, they've coded the software to use the same clues.

I, for one, agree with The Oracle of Omaha: automated vehicles will be here faster than we think. The countries that put up laws to inhibit their use will be giving up a chance to get a productivity leg-up on the rest of the world.
 
...I'm no expert on this, but from what I've been able to ascertain, GPS is only part of the solution; it supports the general location and route selection, but isn't used on a millisecond basis to position the car....that's done by vision systems. So the same thing that allows human drivers to keep in the altered lanes during construction (orange drums) are also used by the vehicle guidance system. And the same clues that keep a human driver from driving off the road when rain or darkness obscures the strong lane indicators, well, they've coded the software to use the same clues...

GPS and the road database are used by these systems the same way humans read paper maps: it is used mainly for routing.

Humans drive by looking at the road: trying to stay in lane, watching for other cars, obeying traffic lights and road signs, avoiding furniture or junk falling off vehicles in front, swerving around pot holes if possible or slowly driving across, etc... In an autonomous vehicle, these tasks are done by computer vision, and obstacle detection and avoidance is augmented with Lidar and millimeter-wave radar. GPS has nothing to do with that.

An autonomous system must also be fail-safe. It must know when one of its crucial sensors fails or is erratic, and refuses to drive, or slows down and pulls over safely if it is on the road. How fast people forget about Toyoya's unintended acceleration! Such a simple function, and they messed it up and denied it.

But right now, they are still trying to have it work when everything is in tiptop condition, let alone dealing with self-diagnosis for failures.

The kind of AI I talked about earlier is even harder. Consider how a human acts in the following situation.

You come up to an intersection. There's a 4-way stop sign. You slow down, preparing to make a full stop. Then, you observe a woman pushing a stroller on the sidewalk and it looks like she is about to cross the road. Of course, you pause at the intersection, yielding her the right of way. But the woman stops there, turns and looks back at her husband and another kid who are trailing behind. So, it was clear that she intends to wait for them to catch up. Releasing the brake, you slowly accelerate to get through the intersection.​

Now, a human can read body language and interpret the intention of another human. How does a computer do that? Last I have seen about AI (artificial intelligence), the effort to recognize human faces and to identify them is not all that great. And the software to estimate the age of people through computer vision is even worse.

I, for one, agree with The Oracle of Omaha: automated vehicles will be here faster than we think. The countries that put up laws to inhibit their use will be giving up a chance to get a productivity leg-up on the rest of the world.
There are a lot of people working on this technology. If it works, then it works. Nobody would be able to stop it, and why would any want to stop it (perhaps other than truck driver unions)? But it is just not as easy and simple as people try to make it look like.

Think about technologies that we had for decades, then gave up because of insurmountable problems: supersonic commercial flight, reentrant orbital vehicles (read Space Shuttle), etc... They worked, but were far from safe and cost so much money that we gave it up. And autonomous vehicles are not even here yet for us to price it and to talk about commercial viability.

So, I find this area interesting but am not going to hold my breath. I would not bet either for or against it.
 
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I see automated vehicles coming a long way off. It's just like passenger aircraft with auto pilot. The plane can take off, fly and land without human intervention. But, you will always need a human in there to oversee the aircraft. There are too many things that can go wrong that software cannot overcome. Our earth is not controlled like a lab. Would you get on a pilot less plane? What about a flock of geese going into the engines? Think it could land on the Hudson? Would you get on a highway with a lot of driver less 18 wheelers? What if a front tire has a blowout and you are in the incoming lane of the 18 wheeler? Would your driver less car figure it out?

The industries that surround moving freight will not change much in the next few decades. Same with driver less cars. Especially in rural areas with dirt roads, deer, beer, and country music. Cultures have to change, too.
 
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I'm not worried about "no jobs at all, because technology replaced everyone". But I do worry about "no jobs at the wages US workers expect, because it's so easy to outsource work".

Agreed. But those low wages are also being paid to college-graduates here in the USA, because competition for many jobs (especially those not requiring highly specialized skills) is still intense, and will probably remain that way for the foreseeable future. Those workers with highly-specialized skills (a small percentage of the workforce) are getting raises now, while almost everyone else is not. If you don't like what we are paying you, hit the road, we'll hire and train someone else. I suppose you could say that is just capitalism at work, but the times are definitely different than they used to be, when someone with a college degree and a reasonable level of motivation could earn a living wage. Most big companies really don't care whether the wage they are offering is fair or not.........if someone is willing to work for that wage, and they are trainable, then that's who gets hired.
 
I don't think self driving driverless semi trucks will happen in this lifetime.



The technology to assist truck drivers will happen soon though.



So what happens when all these self driving semi trucks roll into cities like Chicago or Miami or Dallas. How would a self driving truck navigate these cities with the current state of our road and highway system.



You still need the manpower to inbound and outbound freight.



The new technology will make trucking safer but semi truck driving jobs are going to be around for a long time.



Just Amazon alone outbounds thousands of truck loads daily nationwide that go to the rails,airports,postal facilities,UPS and FDX hubs,etc.


Why would a semi be any different from an automobile? Given the potential for damage an 80k rig has, I might expect a vehicle on full autopilot but with an occupant behind the wheel just in case. There is a lot of technology available to address the current driver shortage at least until Amazon perfects delivery by drone. The autopilot system might enable relaxing the hours in service limitations and alleviate the driver shortage.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
 
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They will probably hire Africans or Indians to drive the truck remotely until the auto system is perfected.
 
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