Retiring to Central America

Hi Ed, Thanks for the encouragement :)

I only spent a weekend in Cuenca over 4 years ago. It is a beautiful city with a colonial center and there are some expats there. It is at a lower elevation than super-high Quito and so the weather is much better. In my mid-range motel in the center of Cuenca, a lady was robbed in the hotel, sitting a few feet away from the receptionist and while a bunch of folks were in the lobby, including me. One criminal dropped something and she leaned down to pick it up, the other grabbed her purse, then the original one offered to chase him and went off in the opposite direction, everything gone. Quito, where I spent over 2 weeks, was definitely subject to high crime against tourists including violence based on many stories I heard. I am less sure about the ongoing level in Cuenca.

I don't know how to compare crime in Colombia to Ecuador. But I don't think either place is really that safe by American standards. I first came to Colombia in 2008 after crime had really dropped and Colombia had turned the corner. While things are looking up in Colombia, crime has increased over the last couple of years. I definitely feel safe here and also walk at night. But through a lonely neighborhood at night I generally take a taxi.

It is true that one fits in better in Colombia. I am 6'1" blue eyes and sandy hair, but people still will mistake me for a local -- I get asked for directions literally everyday. In Medellin, people's skin is very light but they tend to have black hair and brown eyes, and these are what give me away or at least folks are not sure what I am, at least until I open my mouth.

Colombia has the second most Spanish speakers of any country (second to Mexico) and second highest population in South America. Tourism is booming in Colombia.

Bogota moves beyond its bad-boy image - USATODAY.com

Different parts of Colombia are different culturally because the parts have been geographically isolated due to the rough geography (a continent within a country twice the size of Texas). Cartagena, the culture and the Spanish spoken there and the economy, is probably almost as different from Medellin as Mexico City is from Buenos Aires.

Colombia is not as cheap as one would expect, lots of taxes to pay for security, etc. It is a service-oriented culture and the service you receive is usually excellent (totally unexpected before my arrival) -- you constantly here the words at your service. People are culto (cultured and polite and educated) well beyond what might seem like the limited economic development of the country, probably because the violent past has held them back so far. Strangers greet each other and say goodbye in elevators. Colombia is a true frontier investment market.

Kramer
 
Hi Kramer – good to hear from you and glad to hear that things are going well in Colombia. Learn how to make arepas yet?
Are you going to be in Medellin for the world cup? Colombia isn't fielding a team but it'll still be a blast.

Back on topic, Kramer’s comments make a lot of sense. I would add a couple of things:

Latin America is pretty inexpensive right now, but has not always been, and this is not necessarily its “normal” state. The economies and currencies have moved in cycles and all the countries mentioned in this thread have at times been very cheap and at times been very expensive (is US$ terms). Folks looking for inexpensive living and on fixed income streams may be unpleasantly surprised after 5-10 years of local currency appreciation with inflation.

There has not yet been a generation of socio-political stability in any country. The likelihood of this changing now is not high. People need to understand, however, that economic growth and a more mature and stable political environment will with absolute certainty make the cost of living rise (in US$ and local currency) as the standard of living improves. This will be of benefit to the locals but a real problem for expats who went for the low cost (and standard) of living.

While I have no experience with expat communities and how they are impacted by language and cultural issues, in non-expat communities one cannot emphasize enough the importance of language skills and cultural assimilation to relocate successfully to any place in Latin America, including Mexico.
 
Thanks Kramer for sharing your thoughts. I always learn so much from you and have the greatest admiration for the way you travel: frugally, intelligently, with keen interest in and respect for the cultures in which you immerse yourself. You're the ideal ambassador - and "canary in the coalmine" - for the rest of us. Much appreciated.

I think you are right-on about Spanish. Here in Ajijic, Lake Chapala as well as in San Miguel many gringos work diligently at learning the language, but the hard fact of the matter is language is a skill that atrophies if not used, and on a day-to-day basis most expats here hang out with fellow gringos 90% plus of the time. Still, being able to have a civil, respectful conversation with shopkeepers, bus drivers, restaurant owners and the like, even in kindergarten-level present tense Spanish, is invaluable.
 
Arepas, the bottom of the corn bread barrel. :)

Ha
Our usual family get-together menu: tequeños, yellow arepas, fried cheese, black beans, baked plantain, scrambled eggs “perico”, diced chicken, shredded beef, beer. Ain’t nothing better...
 
There has not yet been a generation of socio-political stability in any country.

Great point! And lest we forget, even Mexico came within 0.2% of electing Chavez-like Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador. I was in Morelia, Mexico at that time (2006). My Spanish professor had a conference in a city about a 6 hour drive away the weekend of the vote. He was so concerned about the future of his country and his business if Obrador won, that he drove on Saturday night back to Morelia, cast his vote in the morning, and then drove back to his conference, an extra 12 hours driving. How many Americans would do that to cast a single vote?

What is ironic is that Colombia has a deep history of democracy and appears to have really turned the corner on reenergizing its institutions although it is still too early to tell. The post-Uribe era, say the next 6 years, will really tell.

Re: Arepas

These are the lazy man's bread! They make everything from "pizzas" to buscuits here with them. Food in Colombia is basic and does not have a lot of spices (most foreigners seemed surprised at this). This is another area (cuisine) where Mexico is really superior.

There are restaurants here in Medellin that do actually have superior foreign food, something that is rare in most developing countries that I have visited. I have had some of the best Italian in my life at two different restaurants here in the last couple of weeks -- I was genuinely surprised. I have tried Mexican here (one of my favorite cuisines) but it was not that great.

Kramer
 
kevink wrote: Thanks Kramer for sharing your thoughts. I always learn so much from you and have the greatest admiration for the way you travel: frugally, intelligently, with keen interest in and respect for the cultures in which you immerse yourself. You're the ideal ambassador - and "canary in the coalmine" - for the rest of us. Much appreciated.
Thanks for your kind words, Kevin. I also thoroughly enjoy reading your posts and hope we can meet up in the Ajijic area someday.

Re: Canary in the coalmine

I feel like the King's official food taster. It is the best job in the world until something goes wrong :LOL:

Kramer
 
Our usual family get-together menu: tequeños, yellow arepas, fried cheese, black beans, baked plantain, scrambled eggs “perico”, diced chicken, shredded beef, beer. Ain’t nothing better...

I am definitely with you on the shredded beef. :)

Ha
 
Well, Kramer and Onward,

As well-traveled trekkers of Latin America, where would you suggest for an extended stay to learn Spanish with minimal personal risk? One has to start somewhere.

Gracias amigos.

Ed
 
I'm not Kramer or Onward, but did spend a super six weeks in Bariloche a couple of years ago. Bariloche is a beautiful small city, with strong Swiss and Italian influences. Great restaurants, coffee shops, and chocolatiers.
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We went in November, their spring, and low season. Bariloche is a ski resort, and popular in the summer for hiking, but the springs are nice and rates low. We rented a perfectly fine 1bdrm apartment a couple of miles out of town for $500/mo. It was across the street from a grocery store and the bus stopped right in front.
The photos on their website indicate that they have upgraded some, so I imagine prices are up too. Here is the link: Complejo Villa Leufu - Patagonia - ARGENTINA
The Spanish school we attended was just great. Learn Spanish in Patagonia Argentina

If you go, don't miss the Cruce de Lagos.
 
As well-traveled trekkers of Latin America

Well, I should be a well-traveled trekker in Latin America, but I´m not. The reason is I started my first trip to South America in Rio de Janero. I had three months to explore the contintent. After three months, I hadn´t made it out of Rio! So I wasn´t much better travelled than when I started, but boy did I have a helluva lot of fun. :D

I´m on my second trip to SA now, and only a week into it. One thing I can say is that Quito, Ecuador is probably not the ideal place. The reason is the safety factor.
 
Not sure how Bariloche Spanish sounds, but Buenos Aires/Montevideo Spanish sounded like a foreign tongue to me. But I always learned Mexican Spanish. So if the thick argentine accent is heard in Bariloche, it may make it harder to communicate in Spanish if you travel in Mexico or central America later. Not 100% sure about that, but I know Mexico vs. BA/MVD, it was hard to understand.
 
Fuego:
A Mexican will understand an Argentinian and vice versa. Compare it to a New Yorker and a Southerner speaking to each other. I lived in Costa Rica for four years, the country has tons of Spanish Schools, If you pick one in Costa Rica stay outside of San Jose.
 
Fuego:
A Mexican will understand an Argentinian and vice versa.

I understand this, put what I'm saying is that a person who learns Argentinian Spanish even at an intermediate or advanced level may still have difficulty using those language skills in Mexico or Central America. That was at least my experience being fairly proficient in Mexican spanish, and having real difficulty conversing with Argentinians and Uruguayans. Different pronunciation, different slang, different terms for things.

And as for a new yorker understanding a deep southerner, that can still be difficult. I have seen English language speakers subtitled on tv occasionally when they have a thick accent. Sometimes they are from Britain, sometimes from the Appalachians. My DW, for example, is a fluent English speaker but didn't start learning English till age 7. She has had little exposure to Appalachian accent. She can't really understand what my mountain folk relatives are saying when we visit them due to the thickness of their accents. She has similar (but not quite as bad) difficulties understanding British English speakers.
 
Fuego:
I getcha. I also spent time in Scotland. The English who came to visit Scotland couldn't understand the Scottish Dialect at all, to the English it was a foreign language. The Scots, on the other hand, had no problem understanding their cousins.

In any case, I strongly suggest that anyone who wants to retire in Central America, learn Spanish. I saw too many Gringos, who were too lazy to try and learn Spanish, end up getting ripped off by the "nice" local guy who could speak English.
 
In any case, I strongly suggest that anyone who wants to retire in Central America, learn Spanish. I saw too many Gringos, who were too lazy to try and learn Spanish, end up getting ripped off by the "nice" local guy who could speak English.

Definitely agree on that! Basic spanish of the wrong dialect is way better than no spanish at all.
 
I would recommend learning the basics of Spanish in an American classroom. It is largely a waste of time to do an immersion program abroad if you can't already communicate at a basic level. There are lots of resources for learning Spanish independently in order to get a head start on an immersion program.

In terms of time abroad in a program, I would generally recommend one month. And if you cannot do two weeks, it is not worth going. Each time you go for a program, the first part of the program is spent recalling what you already knew before, so you get a lot more out of a month than two weeks, for instance (more than twice as much).

Kramer
 
Houston? Dallas? San Antonio? San Diego? Honolulu area?
Nords, believe it or not, Los Angeles has gotten so safe so fast, that almost no one understands why. Murder and crime rates have plummeted and something like 80% of homicides are solved, LAPD has dramatically improved their reputation, etc:

L.A. Consequential - Opinionator Blog - NYTimes.com

Same in San Fran (dropped 50% last year) and New York (lowest last year since detailed records began to be kept almost 50 years ago), where murder rates have dropped dramatically. See "homicides plummet inexplicably":

Homicides plummet inexplicably in S.F.

Kramer
 
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