Stealth Wealth

We don’t talk about finances with others and live more frugally than many of our working friends. We don’t have a boat or second home. I drive an old truck and take long trips in a 25 year old camper. We’re not hiding our net worth. We just don’t need all that much to be happy and enjoy finding good values in what we consume. We’re not nearly as wealthy as many folks in this forum. But at our spend rate, we aren’t worried about running out of money or leaving too much on the table.
 
We are so stealthy, I'm starting to feel poor ;)

Folks know we've gone on trips, but I don't say how much we spend, and we aren't wild so really it's not that fancy.
I did once tell a friend that asked how I was getting by... since I don't have a pension. I told him if a person spent 4% of their money they could expect it to last 30 years...
Later I realized that does point to at least $1 M unless visiting the food bank. :facepalm:
 
We revealed the details to our kids as we started making gifts to them up to the gift tax exemption, but don't share our financial situation with friends or other family. I doubt most folks would bother to make assumptions about us, just as we don't bother to make assumptions about them.


How much detail do you tell your kids and to what purpose? I’m inclined to do that soon with my grown daughters and their spouses but I’m unsure of how much to tell them. We won’t ever be a financial burden on them and most likely will continue to provide “extras” to them and our grandchildren like paying for sleep away camp as we are doing for the oldest two (of 4) this year.

As for anyone else, who cares!? People are going to make assumptions based on any “appearance“ of wealth. I’m not going to hide anything to friends but I certainly wouldn’t flaunt it either.
 
We are fairly open with our kids. Both - about what we have now AND what it took - LBYM, savings rate % & time.

They can more reasonably value frugality now. It’s better than reading Millionaire Next Door, when it’s someone they know and can ask Q&A.
 
I'm not all that wealthy so I don't have to worry about this one.
If I had a few more million, maybe I would.

Similar to a few others, I do my own yard work, put up firewood for the winter, and wear old clothes, so yeah...
 
Hard to hide the fact I don't work (the perma-smile gives it away)! I'm sure some make assumptions about my wealth. If it comes up, I just say I lived below my means and have enough to be work optional if I live modestly. And I do, I bet I under-spend 95% of my friends and acquaintances about half I'm sure are living at or above their means. I don't feel or act "rich" -My assets are capital and all that matters is what I can comfortably withdraw from them and that's well under the household median and right about the per-capita income for my county.
 
We don’t discuss net worth or our finances with anyone, not even family. We try not to draw attention to ourselves, isn’t that built into LBYM?

Reading The Millionaire Next Door confirmed for me you can’t tell much about others by appearances. I’ve known people who appeared to have little and turned out to be wealthy, and I’ve known people who appear to be wealthy who’ve suffered serious setbacks by unexpected expenses they should have been able to handle. I don’t assume anything about others, and don’t much care. If you’re interesting to talk with is all I care about, wealthy or not.

Most of the high income people (not necessarily high net worth) I worked with were self absorbed twits I played along with until I retired at 57 yo - most of them were shocked and jealous. A few were surprised and impressed. :D
 
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Our house is far less than we could afford, and although we have remodeled it a lot, you can't see that from the street. We also travel a lot, but you can't tell what that really cost either.
 
I guess I don't consider us wealthy, and I think most people are like us. I know that may seem naive, but I do look at people all around us and consider them as wealthy as we are. NW wise most people that we know are very wealthy people and they can't hide that. They own lots of land and some farm so very hard for them to hide their wealth.

We live simple and I might come off as a pauper because that way feels more normal to me. Never do I ever discuss money with anyone or try to flaunt what we have and get by with the old and don't replace till we have too.
 
How much detail do you tell your kids and to what purpose? I’m inclined to do that soon with my grown daughters and their spouses but I’m unsure of how much to tell them.

I told DS and DDIL awhile back after I updated my will and trust when DH died. I haven't updated them. It depends on the kids- DS and DDIL are self-sufficient and proud of it, so I don't have a fear that they'll ask me for money to bail them out of bad decisions or for a Cadillac Escalade. One thing you can tell them is what I tell some people- that my net worth since retiring has increased on average by 2.5%/year after withdrawals. That will reassure them that you're not going broke without giving numbers.

Another thought on this: I attended a charity gala where at one point they were asking people to pledge to donate various amounts. I think they started at $2,500. I was surprised that several people stood up and pledged specific amounts of $1,000 or more. I was at a table with people from my church and couldn't imagine being that public about my giving even though those amounts were manageable. (I did quietly donate later.) It just wasn't me.
 
How much detail do you tell your kids and to what purpose? I’m inclined to do that soon with my grown daughters and their spouses but I’m unsure of how much to tell them. We won’t ever be a financial burden on them and most likely will continue to provide “extras” to them and our grandchildren like paying for sleep away camp as we are doing for the oldest two (of 4) this year.

As for anyone else, who cares!? People are going to make assumptions based on any “appearance“ of wealth. I’m not going to hide anything to friends but I certainly wouldn’t flaunt it either.

We decided that giving our kids money up to the gift exemption now while they were in their 30's would be more impactful to their lives than getting it in an inheritance later. So in the wind-up to telling them we were going to give them money and not to worry about our financial situation, DW blurts out our NW. Yikes! I wasn't going to do that.

I decided to turn that boo-boo into a teaching moment and made a write-up of some money lessons on living below our means, avoiding debt, avoiding high cost investment products like Whole Life and Indexed Annuities (one had actually been investing in these). Also, it covered how important it is to keep investing fees low, how easy it is to do it yourself without an advisor, the benefits of diversification, how we ramped up bonds in our asset allocation as we neared retirement age, etc. Then showed our portfolio growth, current asset allocation, where and how we kept things, etc.

It turned out to be a great experience and got them more interested in investing and managing their money as they saw the magic of compounding in a real-world example. We sat with one and helped them open an account at Vanguard. They liked the write-up so much that they asked for a version without our specifics that they could share with their friends. I got several positive responses and one even got into a long discussion with me about it.

The advisability of disclosure depends on your kids personalities and relationship with money. Our kids were pretty well established in their careers and the discussion was 3 years ago and they haven't slacked off or gone to "blow that dough" mode, so it's turned out well so far.
 
Yes and no. I live in a VHCOL region and I'm in a high income profession. As a result, my work peers, neighbors, etc are typically high-income and often a lot wealthier than I am - frequently the kind of folks who came from at minimum upper middle class backgrounds, went to elite schools, etc.

For example, in my circles, it's perfectly normal for people to drive luxury cars, own multiple homes, belong to country/yacht clubs, etc. I've got some neighbors who are in the nine and even ten figures NW - the kind of people who collect exotic cars, own large yachts, inhabit big estates. So, my idea of stealth wealth is vastly skewed. In my environ, I live a stealthy lifestyle but on this forum would probably not seem all that stealthy.

Wife and I believe in living below our means - for example I drive a nice model car, but its clocking 14 years old now - still running nicely, just needs plenty of upkeep. And we looked at some very large homes, but settled on something that would not be considered grand. I did have to remind DW to stop calling it "small" - our retirement house is on the modest side for our area, but its definitely not small relative to a lot of our extended family who might take offense at the characterization.

I do prefer to fly below the radar, but that's sometimes tough to do in my case, so try to find a middle ground of being able to blend in my high octane surroundings while not coming off too whatever outside this bubble. In retirement, will be easier to be stealthier except for being "retired" which I can already see, seems to unsettle people who are worried they'll never be able to retire.

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P.S. Should note that I was in no way, shape, or form born into this kind of environment - quite the opposite. In childhood, I have seen and experienced poverty and extreme financial insecurity up close! So, these opposing money cultures are a bit of a mind bender for me. DW grew up middle class, so less of a disconnect for her. But, in both our cases, we do try to play down our situation with extended family, as our assets would be more than all of them out together - they might guess that but its critically important to maintaining those relationships that they not have it rubbed in their faces.

The only people who know our financials are my financial advisor and my estate attorney.

EDIT #2:

In terms of stealthiness, we tend to spend money in less obvious ways, compared to our extended family. For example, some of them have always driven nicer cars than DW and I. For many years, we would be the ones showing up at any family gathering in a rusty old beater, while the rest were in shiny new vehicles. And we don't do social media, whereas, constantly seeing others posting their fabulous [party, vacation, new boat, etc.]. Where we spend $$$ is on our home(s), on wellness/healthcare, on help (housekeeper, gardener, pool guy, etc.), less visible stuff.
 
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We prefer stealth, and stealth for us is relative.
Travel and homes well below our $ ability, but we don't look poor. For example, smaller oceanfront condo compared to most on the island. Smaller home than we can afford inland. FI in 40s but no one knew..... If someone adds it all up/figures it out I'm OK with that but I prefer no one pay that much attention to my dollar worth - it's only a small part of who I am. Focus on my other qualities - hopefully they're much more interesting.
 
We bought some land recently. The realtor involved knows the neighborhood where our house is. He said there is a lot of “quiet” money there. I like that term. So we are “quiet” money folks.
 
We don’t flaunt it, our family has figured it thanks to DFIL who lives with us not being able to keep quiet. We had hosted a couple of family cruises and rented a large house in the Outer Banks, NC for a week’s family vacation, so some had figured it out. But they don’t ask or expect anything and are appreciative of what we do. Having two vacation homes gives it away to a few people at our church, when we tell them when we’re going away. Our Priest and the office manager see our giving and know from that.
The neighborhood we live in isn’t anything to give it away, but we’ve moved up from Hondas and Fords to BMW and MB. But there are others with luxury cars.
Nobody has ever commented to make us think they’ve figured it out or even care.
The kids we talked to last year about details, where to find things and such.

I had to laugh (to myself) when you mentioned the neighborhood you live in. When people mention our neighborhood they say "The Old South Side." It's not really a pejorative, but it does capture an element of the area. It's "old." Not much new construction (the latest dates from just after WWII - when any vacant piece of land - somebody built a house on it for the returning vets.)

Our house that DW and I used to call "The Slum" is an old farm house that eventually got built around during the early early 1910s and 1920s. SO, it's an old neighborhood. Anyone with a decent stash who lives there can "hide in plain sight" - especially with that 2000 Buick sitting out front.
 
Has anyone who retired early a decade+ ago, and don't talk money have family presume you're scraping by? I really have a hard time paying for my fair share of dinners, LOL!
 
Has anyone who retired early a decade+ ago, and don't talk money have family presume you're scraping by? I really have a hard time paying for my fair share of dinners, LOL!

Yeah, unfortunately, anyone we go to dinner with knows us well enough to WAIT to see if we're gonna pick up the tab.:facepalm:
 
Yeah, unfortunately, anyone we go to dinner with knows us well enough to WAIT to see if we're gonna pick up the tab.:facepalm:

Sounds familiar - have got one family member, seems to be a sport with him, will order up all kinds of drinks and apps, assuming we'll at least be covering more than our fair share of the tab relative to what we consumed, and maybe will pick up the tab if its a large group. Used to really annoy the heck out of us, but then we figure, a small price to pay to maintain the relationship.
 
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Anyone lose a relationship with a long-time friend or close family member because the wealth divide became too much for them to stomach (regardless of your stealthiness or careful consideration for their insecurities)?

Has happened to us a couple times over the years - very sad.
 
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We downsized 8 years ago, and our small maintenance-provided development is 55+ folks, and we guess most of them are in the same boat with us, but we NEVER discuss money with them. Hubby has a couple of former coworker friends who are similarly positioned, and they discuss generalities. I NEVER discuss $$$ with anyone in person. I prefer to do it anonymously, like I do here online.

Honestly, we lost some friends when we moved into this development. They've had some bad breaks and some troublesome adult kids, and the jabs they made at us and our "fancy new house" just became too much.
 
Those who only know us casually most likely would think we have modest means. We chose to live in a townhouse development and only have one car, a modest 2015 Honda Accord.

However, it's hard to hide that you are retired early. People so often ask what you do for work. We were a bit evasive in our answers at first, but we tired of that game and now just straight up say we retired early.

I assume once people hear that both DH and I are retired that they presume we have $$$. They often say "You are too young to be retired!". I'm going to enjoy that for as long as it lasts. :LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
Anyone have a lose a relationship with a long-time friend or close family member because the wealth divide became too much for them to stomach (regardless of your stealthiness or careful consideration for their insecurities)?

Has happened to us a couple times over the years - very sad.

I've noticed some strain with at least one relationship. A couple we knew well (both now deceased) knew we were much better off than they were. We helped them out a few times, financially. The wife was always prompt in paying us back if we made a loan (at zero interest) but the guy would gladly have let that slide. We had a few "deals" we w*rked together (antiques) and he pretty obviously "cheated" us - which we let slide.

It never came to a confrontation, but again "strain" is the word I would use when it came to the relationship. We eventually cut ties when the guy took off for another life partner and left DW in the lurch. We continued to help her a little bit as we aged.

It's very sad when you can "sense" that strain and know that it's due to envy. I don't believe I have ever let the normal human emotion of envy affect a relationship with anyone. It's just not in my nature to expect anything from anyone else JUST because they are better off than I am. I try to celebrate someone else's good fortune. I may try to emulate them and hope that I have similar results. In most cases - I just note that they are well off and they are 1) my friend 2) my relative 3) my associate 4) my casual acquaintance. They have more than I do. And, so what! Not everyone can do that. YMMV
 
Those who only know us casually most likely would think we have modest means. We chose to live in a townhouse development and only have one car, a modest 2015 Honda Accord.

However, it's hard to hide that you are retired early. People so often ask what you do for work. We were a bit evasive in our answers at first, but we tired of that game and now just straight up say we retired early.

I assume once people hear that both DH and I are retired that they presume we have $$$. They often say "You are too young to be retired!". I'm going to enjoy that for as long as it lasts. :LOL::LOL::LOL:

Heh, heh, that's right. When I was FIRE'd at 58, folks would say "You're too young...." Now, at 76 - not so much.:LOL:
 
How much detail do you tell your kids and to what purpose?


Since my wife died last year. I have laid out everything in detail with my only surviving child (daughter). She will have to pick up the pieces when I leave here for good. Someone has to know.
 
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