Tell Me About Binoculars

^ I got an old tripod built like that one at the ranch. I suppose they used it for land leveling and things like that.

When I bought more land last year, I was going to give it to the surveyor and forgot. I need to get it and give it to him.

The wood is dark with brass top mount.
 
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What? Give it to the surveyor?

Dude, you got a ranch with a killer view. Get a good pair of binocs, say 20x70 and mount them on your tripod.
 
Sorry. Think of it as the diameter of the beam of light leaving the binos and going into your eye. Your eye only gets the light that comes through the eye's pupil, though, so if the incoming light beam is larger that extra light is wasted. Hence my point about night glasses not being too useful for us old folks whose pupils don't dilate so much any more.

Optical engineer here. Oldshooter is giving excellent advice. I suspect he learned about rifle scopes at one point. That's one of the first things we learn to design.

I'm going to offer a slightly different explanation of exit pupil. Oldshooter is 100% correct but it may still be hard to follow what he is saying.

A "pupil" in an optical system is an interface point between subsystems. Think of it like the connector behind your TV where you plug the HDMI cable in. Electronics are easy because we use cables. In optical systems we are passing light rays so aligning one part to the next is important.

Binoculars collect light at the entrance pupil (the big objective lens), relay it and magnify it, then deliver it to your eye(s) at the exit pupil of the binocular which you have to align with the entrance pupil of your eye manually when you pull them to your face.

At the exit pupil, any ray of light that came directly into the objective "on axis," meaning directly from the center of the deer, sparrow, or quarterback you were looking at will still be at the center. But anything "off axis" will be spread out in the exit pupil/focal plane. So, as Oldshooter says, if your pupils only dilate to 3 mm and you have a 7 mm exit pupil, you are missing a lot! It can also be hard to properly align to your eyes so you may not get the most out of a good pair. (This is technically not quite accurate but I am trying not to write a book.)

Your eyes also have entrance pupils. To use a binocular you need to be able to position each side of the binocular in the right place so its exit pupil aligns with each eye's entrance pupil, and they will be different for pretty much anyone, so having the right differential adjustments and learning to use them for YOU is important. Most but not all binoculars will have a differeential focus on one eyepiece to allow for this.

Other things to consider, the first number is objective lens diameter and the second is manification. Bigger objective means more light gathered and will be better under darker conditions but also bulkier and heavier. More magnification brings the deer, sparrow, or quarterback closer but also makes it harder to keep steady.

I own 3 pairs, a Bushnell 7x50 I got from my dad so vintage 60s I think, a Bushnell 7x50 I bought for myself in the early 80s, and a Bushness compact 7x35 I bought in the late 80s. Both my purchased pairs are good quality and cost about $100. My dad's pair are by far the highest quality but the lenses have begun to fog. Of my pairs I rarely use the big pair and stick with the compact.

In terms of advice, I consider Tasco a "toy" brand that is poor quality. I would be surprised if you could get $5-$10 for a used pair. You may do better donating them to a local school or nonprofit and taking a tax deduction. After that, I would keep the ones that YOU like best.

My partner recently bought a cheap pair of binoculars for about $20 withought even talking to me. Not that she needs to ask me to spend money but jeez, I'm an optical engineer! Hers are compact Bushnell 7x35 I think and they are quite good.
 
I have to admit that DH and I are now owners of two pairs of Swarovskis each.:blush: We’ve each had the 8.5x42 bins which has been an absolutely outstanding birdwatching optics we’ve enjoyed for decades. More recently we’ve each bought a lighter, more compact 8x32 bins which we prefer for traveling.

Understood. Once you try Swarovskis you can never go back.
I also have a pair of 8x25 I keep in the glove box of my*car.
 
^ I got an old tripod built like that one at the ranch. I suppose they used it for land leveling and things like that.

When I bought more land last year, I was going to give it to the surveyor and forgot. I need to get it and give it to him.

The wood is dark with brass top mount.



What? Give it to the surveyor?

Dude, you got a ranch with a killer view. Get a good pair of binocs, say 20x70 and mount them on your tripod.

Giving the old tripod to the surveyor would be a nice gesture. And chances are that binoculars would not mount on the old tripod mounting screw without adapters.

My heavy duty tripod head mounts on a 3/8" screw thread. My binocular mount is 1/4 -20. Survey tripod mounting threads are a larger diameter.
 
What? Give it to the surveyor?

Dude, you got a ranch with a killer view. Get a good pair of binocs, say 20x70 and mount them on your tripod.

I have two tripods other than that old one I use with spotting scopes. I have Vortex spotting scopes I use with tripod.

The surveyor had his work cut out for him with this job. We had to backpack in to find and place new pins. We had river bottom to deal with and river to find the corners etc. It really was a miserable job for him. I still feel I owe him more for the fine job he did.

The one corner was so steep that I don't know if a mountain goat would of went there. Lol
 
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Last winter's Rio Grande Valley Birding Festival cost us some money. First, I picked up some Vortex 8x42's - I can see birds better w/ the wife's Bushnell 10x42's but I needed something not to big so it could fit on my Camera/binocs harness. And I just need to find where the bird is in general so I can then whip out my Canon w/ it's Sigma 150-600mm lens for the photo. It's kinda a lot of weight, and I look like a special ops wannabe idiot, but it works well for what I need it for.

I used to have some 10x50's, and while I was able to compensate (usually) for the unstableness, the wife hated them. Plus they were huge, so the 8x42's are a nice compromise.
 
The beauty of 7x50's with their large exit pupil even in daylight and even if your eyes don't open that large because you are geriatric is that large exit pupil makes the interocular adjustment very easy. Especially in daylight when pupils are small.

That's why they are the most popular marine binoc's. Sometimes you have to see something real important really fast and 7x50's rock at this.
Thank your for this! I learned something today.

What you say makes perfect sense and is the flip side of our misery with our little Zeiss 10x20s. And on a boat, you are probably not carrying the binos on your neck for long periods, so the extra weight won't be so much of an issue.
 
Last winter's Rio Grande Valley Birding Festival cost us some money. First, I picked up some Vortex 8x42's - I can see birds better w/ the wife's Bushnell 10x42's but I needed something not to big so it could fit on my Camera/binocs harness. And I just need to find where the bird is in general so I can then whip out my Canon w/ it's Sigma 150-600mm lens for the photo. It's kinda a lot of weight, and I look like a special ops wannabe idiot, but it works well for what I need it for.

I used to have some 10x50's, and while I was able to compensate (usually) for the unstableness, the wife hated them. Plus they were huge, so the 8x42's are a nice compromise.
That’s a fantastic birding festival. And if I need an adjustment or check on my bins that’s where I go as all the bin manufacturers are there.
 
For boat use we had a pair of Canon image stabilized binoculars years ago. They were amazing!
 
Thank your for this! I learned something today.

What you say makes perfect sense and is the flip side of our misery with our little Zeiss 10x20s. And on a boat, you are probably not carrying the binos on your neck for long periods, so the extra weight won't be so much of an issue.

I bought a pair of Steiner 7x50 marine & military just for the boat as well as a couple of holder brackets so they don't fall when the boat rocks. In addition to the ease of pupil distance they are fixed focus so you don't have to fiddle with the focuser either. They also pass the "can you see the windmills on the hills" test. Quite bulky and not light, but fast and easy and optically excellent.
 
Optical engineer here. Oldshooter is giving excellent advice. I suspect he learned about rifle scopes at one point. That's one of the first things we learn to design.

I'm going to offer a slightly different explanation of exit pupil. Oldshooter is 100% correct but it may still be hard to follow what he is saying.

A "pupil" in an optical system is an interface point between subsystems. Think of it like the connector behind your TV where you plug the HDMI cable in. Electronics are easy because we use cables. In optical systems we are passing light rays so aligning one part to the next is important.

Binoculars collect light at the entrance pupil (the big objective lens), relay it and magnify it, then deliver it to your eye(s) at the exit pupil of the binocular which you have to align with the entrance pupil of your eye manually when you pull them to your face.

At the exit pupil, any ray of light that came directly into the objective "on axis," meaning directly from the center of the deer, sparrow, or quarterback you were looking at will still be at the center. But anything "off axis" will be spread out in the exit pupil/focal plane. So, as Oldshooter says, if your pupils only dilate to 3 mm and you have a 7 mm exit pupil, you are missing a lot! It can also be hard to properly align to your eyes so you may not get the most out of a good pair. (This is technically not quite accurate but I am trying not to write a book.)

Your eyes also have entrance pupils. To use a binocular you need to be able to position each side of the binocular in the right place so its exit pupil aligns with each eye's entrance pupil, and they will be different for pretty much anyone, so having the right differential adjustments and learning to use them for YOU is important. Most but not all binoculars will have a differeential focus on one eyepiece to allow for this.

Other things to consider, the first number is objective lens diameter and the second is manification. Bigger objective means more light gathered and will be better under darker conditions but also bulkier and heavier. More magnification brings the deer, sparrow, or quarterback closer but also makes it harder to keep steady.

I own 3 pairs, a Bushnell 7x50 I got from my dad so vintage 60s I think, a Bushnell 7x50 I bought for myself in the early 80s, and a Bushness compact 7x35 I bought in the late 80s. Both my purchased pairs are good quality and cost about $100. My dad's pair are by far the highest quality but the lenses have begun to fog. Of my pairs I rarely use the big pair and stick with the compact.

In terms of advice, I consider Tasco a "toy" brand that is poor quality. I would be surprised if you could get $5-$10 for a used pair. You may do better donating them to a local school or nonprofit and taking a tax deduction. After that, I would keep the ones that YOU like best.

My partner recently bought a cheap pair of binoculars for about $20 withought even talking to me. Not that she needs to ask me to spend money but jeez, I'm an optical engineer! Hers are compact Bushnell 7x35 I think and they are quite good.

Thanks for the lesson in optics. Easy to understand now. Don't feel bad, my DW buys stuff without asking me too! :)
 
Interesting thread. I went to Amazon out of curiosity and checked on Swarovski 10x42. All the Swarovski are very expensive, why is that? Is it the quality of the glass/image, is it the light gathering ability? Those are some seriously expensive binoculars vs so many others. Why would you buy them vs a pair that cost 10 to 15% of the Swarovski?
 
Interesting thread. I went to Amazon out of curiosity and checked on Swarovski 10x42. All the Swarovski are very expensive, why is that? Is it the quality of the glass/image, is it the light gathering ability? Those are some seriously expensive binoculars vs so many others. Why would you buy them vs a pair that cost 10 to 15% of the Swarovski?

I know nothing about Swarovski so I am only speaking generally.

The quality of the lenses can make a huge difference and can vary enormously even among the same make and model. It used to be almost impossible to make anything but spherical lenses, where each side of the lens has constant curvature like a sphere. In the last 2-3 decades it has become easier and cheaper to make aspheric lenses that have varying curvature from center to edge. But they cost more because they are harder to make and test.

When determining how blurry an image is we talk about "aberrations" and there are classically 6 of them, although in my life we consider hundreds! When designing a system we also need to control 2 system variables - back focal distance and magnification. We do this by changing the curvatures and spacing of the lenses, and to a lesser degree the thicknesses.

For a rifle scope the back focal distance, distance from the last lens to the focus might be quite far because you don't want that scope slamming into your eye from the rifle recoil. But for binoculars it is pretty much standardized to be close. We also need to deliver the image rightside up because who would buy a binocular that shows everything upside down? That requires 3 lenses or 2 lenses and a prism. The larger binoculars use a prism and that is why they have a "jog" in the design from an outer tube to the tube containing the eye piece.

Ok, so with 3 lenses I can adjust 6 surfaces which means I can control 6 things. If i must control back focal distance and magnification I only get to deal with 4 of the 6 classical abberations so you are stuck with some blurriness. But if Marketing lets me increase the price point to pay for using aspheric lenses, I can give you awesomeness!

Higher end binoculars might also offer electronic image stabilization.

The best advice I can give for buying a new pair of high end binoculars is to buy in person and look through them before picking the specific pair. There can be big differences in image quality even within the same brand and model. All will meet the minimum spec but you could get lucky and find a great pair.
 
Interesting thread. I went to Amazon out of curiosity and checked on Swarovski 10x42. All the Swarovski are very expensive, why is that? Is it the quality of the glass/image, is it the light gathering ability? Those are some seriously expensive binoculars vs so many others. Why would you buy them vs a pair that cost 10 to 15% of the Swarovski?

There really is no such thing as high or low quality optical glass. Nor is th eprice difference between different glasses significant enough to drive design decisions for consumer products.

The light gathering ability is determined mostly but the objective lens size but also possibly by the lens coatings used but again, coatings are pretty well understood and not expensive so likely little variation among any but the cheapest brands.

Again, I am not knocking Swarovski at all. If they make awesome products, great for them!
 
There really is no such thing as high or low quality optical glass. Nor is th eprice difference between different glasses significant enough to drive design decisions for consumer products.

The light gathering ability is determined mostly but the objective lens size but also possibly by the lens coatings used but again, coatings are pretty well understood and not expensive so likely little variation among any but the cheapest brands.

Again, I am not knocking Swarovski at all. If they make awesome products, great for them!

There is little variation among brands at the same level (the big 3 for top level birding are Zeiss, Svarovski, and Leica), but each of those has cheaper "levels." The advice for birders intent on BTD is to try each of the top offerings of the big three and simply pick the ones that feel best in hand. (love my Zeiss SFs! Had someone ask me about them yesterday). And you can sure tell the difference among levels! I think the quality of glass does matter at different light levels. Much birding is done in twilight conditions, inside forests; optics quality matters more under those conditions than in bright midday light.

But birding is the most demanding use for optics. OP may be using for watching sports or performances. The advice to simply compare the existing bins and pick the best of the four to keep is sound.
 
The reason I got my Swarovskis is that about 10-12 years ago I went to an outdoor show where all the major makers had their various models out for display. It was an enormous convention hall so I could look through them to the very distant edges of the hall and examine details.

The Swarovskis simply blew away the others, so I was quickly convinced.
Brightness, clarity, resolving power, whatever criteria I can think of.
They're very expensive, certainly BTD territory, but worth the money IMHO.
When I travel with them I'm always delighted that I spent that money.
 
The reason I got my Swarovskis is that about 10-12 years ago I went to an outdoor show where all the major makers had their various models out for display. It was an enormous convention hall so I could look through them to the very distant edges of the hall and examine details.

The Swarovskis simply blew away the others, so I was quickly convinced.
Brightness, clarity, resolving power, whatever criteria I can think of.
They're very expensive, certainly BTD territory, but worth the money IMHO.
When I travel with them I'm always delighted that I spent that money.
The hours and hours of enjoying the sharp bright undistorted images has been worth it to us. They certainly increased our bird and other wildlife watching pleasure immensely.

When you spend a lot of time and money on nature travel, having fabulous bins that you love makes sense. I can see how some folks might object to our travel budget too since it’s not their priority.
 
The reason I got my Swarovskis is that about 10-12 years ago I went to an outdoor show where all the major makers had their various models out for display. It was an enormous convention hall so I could look through them to the very distant edges of the hall and examine details.

The Swarovskis simply blew away the others, so I was quickly convinced.
Brightness, clarity, resolving power, whatever criteria I can think of.
They're very expensive, certainly BTD territory, but worth the money IMHO.
When I travel with them I'm always delighted that I spent that money.

Yes, the quality of the Swarovskis optic is in a league of their own. When side by side with other makers comparing apples to apples the difference is noticeable without a doubt.

As far as what they do different building their product, I have no idea.
 
update: i have tested all 5-pairs and have decided to keep the two Tasco 8x40. thanks for all of your comments.
 
Eye fatigue

Spend some time using each pair. Some cheaper binoculars are not aligned properly. This will cause eye strain, dizziness and headache. Those are the ones you don’t want.
 
There is nothing wrong with Tasco. Yeah, I know cheap brand.

But I think Tasco is better than Bushnell.

I'm really impressed with Brunton, although no longer making binos. But they did make the pocket transit, a remarkable device.
 
I just got my first pair of “decent” binoculars, a pair of Nikon Monarch M7 8x42 binoculars. Amazing difference from cheap ones I’ve used in the past. Didn’t want to spend any more than they cost, but I’m pleased.
 
I just got my first pair of “decent” binoculars, a pair of Nikon Monarch M7 8x42 binoculars. Amazing difference from cheap ones I’ve used in the past. Didn’t want to spend any more than they cost, but I’m pleased.
No surprise. These are the kind of devices where at the low cost end, doubling the cost produces dramatic gains. When you get to the high cost end like Swarovski, Zeiss, etc. the gain per dollar is much less but it is still there. Vortex and Leupold are mid-price brands that have been my stopping point. Nikon also has a fairly wide range of binos from fairly low up towards the higher end.

There are several birder sites with excellent tutorials and product reviews. OP, I suggest you stay away from these and stay away from testing binos like the Vortex models if you want to remain happy with your Tascos. :LOL:
 
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