Thoughts on Vanguard

[Helen]

I will point out Vanguard has never tried to upsell me and Fidelity has. But when I told Fidelity never to call me again, they have complied.

I met with a Fido rep once to have some Vanguard accounts moved to Fidelity. The guy kept pushing what he called an index fund, but he wouldn't give me the ticker. I wasted an hour with him then several emails before I realized he was trying to push me into an AUM account. I sent a very angry email to the branch manager.

 

[braumeister]

I think all of them have bad apples (pushy, ill-informed, or both) among their employees, but they are a very small percentage of these high quality companies. Vanguard, Fidelity, and Schwab have all given me good service, within their respective competencies, over many years.

I personally rank Vanguard last in that group, simply because they are relatively inflexible in some areas and also because they have a fairly primitive website operation compared to the other two. Vanguard also made a couple of things very difficult for me some years ago, and as a result I moved everything I had with them over to Fidelity and Schwab.

I can do some things easier on the Fidelity website and other things easier on the Schwab website, so they each have pros and cons for me. Both Fidelity and Schwab have local offices I can get to with about a 20 minute drive, so that's another big plus for them.

I will also say that I still own a fair amount of Vanguard products, in the form of ETFs, at Fidelity. It's important to distinguish between their products and their service.

 

[fisemper]

I went ahead and started the process of setting up a vanguard account. I didn't realize they estimate 4-6 weeks to transfer. I now have to overnight the paperwork (which should be done online in the digital age) or wait until the USAA/Schwab deal is done this month and redo all the paperwork. I've tried to search out the same similar funds on Scwhab and as of now I don't like it. I think Vanguard is much easier.


Also, just a quirk, but does Schwab force investors to have a 2-step login via their phone? This is forced on by Vanguard and for me, this is a big disadvantage since I do travel frequently and am without a cell a good portion of my time. I understand the minimal need to login, but at some point I will need to do so and will not because of this.

 

[target2019]

I went ahead and started the process of setting up a vanguard account. I didn't realize they estimate 4-6 weeks to transfer. I now have to overnight the paperwork (which should be done online in the digital age) or wait until the USAA/Schwab deal is done this month and redo all the paperwork. I've tried to search out the same similar funds on Scwhab and as of now I don't like it. I think Vanguard is much easier.

Also, just a quirk, but does Schwab force investors to have a 2-step login via their phone? This is forced on by Vanguard and for me, this is a big disadvantage since I do travel frequently and am without a cell a good portion of my time. I understand the minimal need to login, but at some point I will need to do so and will not because of this.

I think at this point all responsible financial companies use 2FA. I use a hardware token provided by Schwab, whereas wife uses text to her phone.

What are the funds you're trying to match. You do realize the USAA funds will transfer, and finding lower-cost equivalanets isn't an immediate need?

Good luck with the transfer. As previously mentioned, we're letting things transfer, then making decisions later.

 

[MRG]

Can you link/point to the “no hack” guarantee statement by Vanguard and Fidelity?

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/SecurityOnlineFraudPledgeContent.jsp

I thought I had posted this
Apologies.

 

[fisemper]

I use a hardware token provided by Schwab

I think this would work

What are the funds you're trying to match. You do realize the USAA funds will transfer, and finding lower-cost equivalanets isn't an immediate need?

The match is more about being able to find them. I was reading the boglehead info over the weekend and they already do that. It was the Schwab search method, whereas on Vanguard it's all up front without searching, just going down the list. Also, the only USAA related anything I own is the High Yield in the roth. I've used my account mostly for individual stocks, which I am trying not to do much of.

 

[Rianne]

I found this:


https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/SecurityOnlineFraudPledgeContent.jsp


I was concerned as well.

 

[target2019]

I think this would work

The match is more about being able to find them. I was reading the boglehead info over the weekend and they already do that. It was the Schwab search method, whereas on Vanguard it's all up front without searching, just going down the list. Also, the only USAA related anything I own is the High Yield in the roth. I've used my account mostly for individual stocks, which I am trying not to do much of.

Schwab OneSource is where you start. MF or ETF, and so on.

I think I understand now that you have individual stocks and want to sell, and go with a broad ETF or MF. ETFs are here:
https://www.schwab.wallst.com/Prospect/Research/etfs/overview/schwabETFs.asp

Maybe SCHB is one possibility.

 

[OldShooter]

... Also, just a quirk, but does Schwab force investors to have a 2-step login via their phone? This is forced on by Vanguard and for me, this is a big disadvantage since I do travel frequently and am without a cell a good portion of my time. I understand the minimal need to login, but at some point I will need to do so and will not because of this.

Yes, Schwab has a two-step login. Once you have done the dance, though, they store a cookie and the login becomes one-step. I have my browser clear cookies when it is closed, so I end up back with the 2-step login fairly frequently. Here are the options they offer:

​

 

[OldShooter]

I found this:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/help/SecurityOnlineFraudPledgeContent.jsp ...

Hmmm ... lot of fine print. Schwab's is simpler:

"Schwab will cover 100% of any losses in any of your Schwab accounts due to unauthorized activity."

More here: https://www.schwab.com/schwabsafe/security-guarantee

 

[Whisper66]

.....Also, just a quirk, but does Schwab force investors to have a 2-step login via their phone? This is forced on by Vanguard and for me, this is a big disadvantage since I do travel frequently and am without a cell a good portion of my time. I understand the minimal need to login, but at some point I will need to do so and will not because of this.

Not recommending this but If you wish to login with your personal computer at Vanguard, you can do that without 2FA authentication. It just takes one logon with 2FA authentication and identifying the computer as “trusted”. Future logins do not require 2FA authentication then.

 

[lordjust]

OP hasn't stated they are wanting to buy Wellington or Wellesley, unless I've overlooked something.

Schwab and Fidelity offer both funds, I believe. But the buy will cost you. I jst checked this at Schwab, and Wellesley is available, but Wellington is closed for now.

Assuming OP has a taxable brokerage, W & W may not be the best fit in their case.

Other Vanguard funds and ETFs have equivalent choices at Fidelity or Schwab. There've been long threads about choosing between Vanguard, Fidelity, and Schwab.

If OP mentions their holdings, responses may make more sense.

I was responding to oldshooters comment
"You can buy Vanguard funds at Schwab and Fido, sometimes with a small transaction fee. If you are buy and hold as we are it is completely negligible. So wanting VG funds doesn't need to sway your choice of a broker. VG may not have as broad a fund offering as Schwab and Fido, but you should check as I am guessing."

 

[OldShooter]

Not recommending this but If you wish to login with your personal computer at Vanguard, you can do that without 2FA authentication. It just takes one logon with 2FA authentication and identifying the computer as “trusted”. Future logins do not require 2FA authentication then.

Sounds like the same as Schwab -- a cookie. So if you clear cookies for general security as I do, you'll be back to 2 factors with VG too. Not a big deal IMO.

 

[IMATERP]

I was responding to oldshooters comment

"You can buy Vanguard funds at Schwab and Fido, sometimes with a small transaction fee. If you are buy and hold as we are it is completely negligible. So wanting VG funds doesn't need to sway your choice of a broker. VG may not have as broad a fund offering as Schwab and Fido, but you should check as I am guessing."

Actually, the “transaction fees are negotiable.” I currently am with TD Ameritrade (which was bought out by Schwab) and I am able to purchase Out of Network funds for $16.95 each as opposed to $75 Fidelity charges.). Thus, I can purchase Wellesley or Wellesley Global for $16.95.

I

 

[fisemper]

Lots of good options. I do delete all cookies when exiting so I will always have to do 2FA when I login. I'm just going to have to live with this part.

One reason I wanted to stay with VG is while looking at the fees they have several non VG funds without transaction fees where Schwab still has ~$49 fee for non Schwab funds (not all). I'm still going to keep the Schwab account because I still want to hold other funds not available with VG.

 

[Texas Proud]

Vanguard is a joke. Web site is way out of date and clunky. They ban the inverse and leveraged ETFs from trades. Get a real broker.

Problem is that I was doing an experiment with Fido and found a major fail... buying preferred shares!!! Yes, for a good number of them they MAKE you call the order in and they will waive the fees...


First, I do not want to be calling in orders.. Second, I cannot change them on a whim if I see a price movement that I might want to grab...


How lame is it that they will allow strange option trading but some plain vanilla trades are not..

 

[ejman]

Vanguard is a joke. Web site is way out of date and clunky. They ban the inverse and leveraged ETFs from trades. Get a real broker.

Dunno, it sounds to me like their policy is working just as intended. i.e. keep complex trading folks such as yourself away so that the costs that the shareholders (which is everybody that owns a Vanguard fund) have to shoulder are minimized. I kind of like that.

 

[troutnut1]

After about a week of jumping through Vanguards hoops to move substantial funds to them, I finally had enough. Vanguard has a million silly hoops to jump through. My wife’s hyphenated last name was more than they could handle. Everyone was “nice”, but their hands were tied by nooses of their own making. They have an affinity for Medallion signature guarantees they can’t get over. Where I live that is always a problem. Four hours later I decided this was not how I wanted to spend the rest of my life and I pulled the plug on Vanguard. Fidelity made everything that was tough at Vanguard easy. I have been happy with them and glad I dumped Vanguard.

 

[mckittri2000]

I've never had an issue with Vanguard and I like their low commissions. I was not able to log on to their website tonight for either of my accounts so it looks like there may be some technical issues with that.

 

[Amethyst]

I can't log on, either. Tried 2 browsers, refresh, even restarted my computer.

I've never had an issue with Vanguard and I like their low commissions. I was not able to log on to their website tonight for either of my accounts so it looks like there may be some technical issues with that.

 

[rodi]

We've got money at Schwab/Fido/Vanguard. In general I prefer Schwab. Their index funds and ETFs are as low fee as Vanguard these days, with better customer service.

I have the memory of an elephant and still am mad at Vanguard's crappy customer service when my dad died. My sister (executor) kept sending them death certificates that they kept losing. Literally lost 3 and couldn't find the 4th till she explained it had been signed for as registered mail.... voila - they found it. Then when I needed to migrate the 529's my dad had started for my sons they couldn't use that death certificate (though they could see it had been received...) the 529 group needed it's own death certificate and.... you guessed it... lost it.. 2nd time was the charm. So... I'm not a big fan of their lack of customer service for beneficiaries.

That said - I had to call and ask how to redeposit a 529 withdrawal that had been refunded due to dorms shutting down for COVID. I got great customer service from Vanguard's 529 CSR. This was just this morning.

With Schwab I have a personal rep (for free) that I can call and she'll either point me in the right direction or take care of whatever it is I need.

 

[Texas Proud]

After about a week of jumping through Vanguards hoops to move substantial funds to them, I finally had enough. Vanguard has a million silly hoops to jump through. My wife’s hyphenated last name was more than they could handle. Everyone was “nice”, but their hands were tied by nooses of their own making. They have an affinity for Medallion signature guarantees they can’t get over. Where I live that is always a problem. Four hours later I decided this was not how I wanted to spend the rest of my life and I pulled the plug on Vanguard. Fidelity made everything that was tough at Vanguard easy. I have been happy with them and glad I dumped Vanguard.

I was moving securities held at Computershare and they wanted a medallion guarantee... so I go to the largest bank in the USA and get one...


Well, not good enough for them!! REALLY? Nope, they wanted some special 2 ink kind.... at first Fidelity did not want to do it but they decided to in the end...

 

[Texas Proud]

We've got money at Schwab/Fido/Vanguard. In general I prefer Schwab. Their index funds and ETFs are as low fee as Vanguard these days, with better customer service.

I have the memory of an elephant and still am mad at Vanguard's crappy customer service when my dad died. My sister (executor) kept sending them death certificates that they kept losing. Literally lost 3 and couldn't find the 4th till she explained it had been signed for as registered mail.... voila - they found it. Then when I needed to migrate the 529's my dad had started for my sons they couldn't use that death certificate (though they could see it had been received...) the 529 group needed it's own death certificate and.... you guessed it... lost it.. 2nd time was the charm. So... I'm not a big fan of their lack of customer service for beneficiaries.

That said - I had to call and ask how to redeposit a 529 withdrawal that had been refunded due to dorms shutting down for COVID. I got great customer service from Vanguard's 529 CSR. This was just this morning.

With Schwab I have a personal rep (for free) that I can call and she'll either point me in the right direction or take care of whatever it is I need.

What kind of interest do you get on your free cash? When I called and asked I was told .1%... There should be a better option IMO...

 

[MRG]

Dunno, it sounds to me like their policy is working just as intended. i.e. keep complex trading folks such as yourself away so that the costs that the shareholders (which is everybody that owns a Vanguard fund) have to shoulder are minimized. I kind of like that.

+1

 

[Rianne]

We've been with VG for 20+ years. No issues, log on is easy, our flagship rep is great, never hurries us through a discussion. We are buy and hold. Still feel that way, bonds are doing great, considering. We have no complaints. I suppose the grass is always greener...but we're too lazy to investigate another brokerage company.


Edit: Don't plan to touch that part of the portfolio for ~ 5 years. Will probably start backdoor Roth conversions sometime soon, before tax law changes.