Time Share Resorts

[gratefuled]

Re: my wife.

You've heard the parable of the snake, right?

A lonely old man came across a gang of thugs stomping a snake. He shooed them off and took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day it bit him, and as he lay in agony he begged the snake to explain. "How could you do this? I took care of you, fed you, nursed you!"

The snake shrugged. "Buddy, you knew I was a snake when you picked me up."

That's my wife. I'm glad she's on my side.

Ed

 

[Texas Proud]

  Case in point, we own two weeks in a FL oceanfront resort that is still in active developer sales with 2BR units priced at $23K per week.  We purchased our first week there on resale for $4500 and our second for $2300. 

So, let's look at the initial cost of this one property...

First time buyer for the whole year $1,196,000.

Your first purchase for whole year $234,000.

Your second purchase for whole year $119,600.

This assumes that all weeks cost the same, which I do not think is the case....

So, what is your maintenance fee? If it is $100 per week, then that amounts to an additional $5,200 per year. And I bet that $100 is LOW.

 

[pjdaddy]

Getting back to the original question in the thread: Is the timeshare worth the cost? (specifically mentioning the Marriott Vacation Club)

The answer is, it depends on how much money you typically spend on vacation and the amenities that you want. The Marriotts are on the high-end of the timeshare food chain. As an example, one week ownership of a 2BR oceanfront in Maui costs ~$40,000 with annual maintenance fees of ~$1,400. A 2BR Marriott on Hilton Head will cost ~1/2 that price with maintenance fees only slightly less. Lots of people buy these and are happy with their purchase. I am not one of them. For my personal needs and circumstances, I simply cannot justify the cost (we'll have 3 kids in college at the same time in another 2 years, and we are not in the habit of spending $3-5K per week for accomodations when vacationing).

Marriotts are available on the resale market. Unless you are looking at one of their newest developments, you can expect savings of at least 35% off of original developer pricing. I believe that Marriott has right of first refusal on all resales, so you will not see the deep discounts that can be found for other timeshares.

And if purchasing, I would suggest that you purchase where you want to go. If you want to go to Maui routinely, do not purchase a Marriott in Orlando and expect to trade into Maui. The odds of that happening are higher than those of winning the lottery, but not by much.

 

[BarbaraAnne]

We stayed once at the Marriott Maui Resort and went throught the timeshare pitch.  It was worth it for the $100 gift certificate for dinner at our choice of several great restaurants! 

The trouble with the Marriott Maui Resort is that it is rather a dump compared to the other Maui resorts near it. We would much prefer to stay at the Hyatt nearby, which we have enjoyed on several trips. With any kind of a deal (and there are many in Maui) you can stay at the much nicer Hyatt or Westin for little more than the $1400 yearly maintenance fee that you would pay at the Marriott AFTER you spent the $40K for the 1 week time share...

In addition just taking the interest that you could make on the $40K, assuming 5% a year, which would be $2000, you could stay at the Hyatt conciege level and go out for great dinners while in Maui and maybe play some golf.   In fact, that $2000 in interest could cover quite a bit of your total Hawaiian vacation!


Again, this is without spending the $40K for a mediocre (by Hawaii standards) time share!

 

[Kitty]

so I have this time share in Sedona Arizona for a week if someone would like to buy it ... such a deal I have for you...

Kitty

 

[pjdaddy]

so I have this time share in Sedona Arizona for a week if someone would like to buy it ... such a deal I have for you...

Kitty

If its the Arroyo Roble, I'm interested.

 

[Kitty]

My timeshare is through ILX resorts which is Los Abrigados, Golden Eagle Resort, San Carlos Mexico Plaza resort, and the Varsity Clubs Tucson Chapter I have a one week time share good year round.

Kitty

 

[snkalaska]

"Heed the advice regarding purchasing through the resale market. Savings are significant--even 50%+ if you are patient.
Be sure you understand the annual maintenance fee. Our unit at Whistler BC has run us the equivalent of $50-60/day equivalent in addition to our original purchase cost. "
This poster is right on. You can buy weeks on EBay or a bunch of online resellers at a fraction of the full price.
My comment is it's a good deal if you plan to use the week and not exchange it. I've owned 2 weeks on the beach on Puerto Vallarta for about 10 yrs and I go almost every year and love it. Way cheaper than hotel rates. My amortized cost per night is $58 and the rack rate is $185 for my unit. I made the mistake of buying from the resort and paid too much initially, but still think it was a good deal for me.
Each resort has different rules so get a very knowledgeable friend to help you with the ins and outs. My resort allows me to move weeks for $60 so if I want to skip this year, I can pay $120 and take a month next year.

 

[runchman]

Numbers like 20 to $40k for a *timeshare*?

Never, ever, not with a 10-foot pole. I'm amazed that LBYM people, looking to RE, would plunk down that kind of a chunk of cash, with attached annual fees, into something that isn't growing and spinning off income.

My in-laws (one a bank president, but financial dim-wit) payed $7k for a timeshare in the netherlands. Brilliant decision considering:
1. They work together and can rarely take time off together
2. She absolutely hates to fly

A timeshare and a nice big whole-life insurance policy, bought at birth so you can 'never be denied coverage', and you're all set !

- John (a cynical bas*ard)

 

[yakers]

As an investment I would rather buy an annuity inside an IRA with high surrender fees from a broker. While I have found a couple people that time sahres have worked for I still believe they could have gotten as good or better a deal putting the cash into an investment and then searching out bargins and paying cash.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Numbers like 20 to $40k for a *timeshare*?

Never, ever, not with a 10-foot pole.  I'm amazed that LBYM people, looking to RE, would plunk down that kind of a chunk of cash, with attached annual fees, into something that isn't growing and spinning off income.

My in-laws (one a bank president, but financial dim-wit) payed $7k for a timeshare in the netherlands. Brilliant decision considering:
1. They work together and can rarely take time off together
2. She absolutely hates to fly

A timeshare and a nice big whole-life insurance policy, bought at birth so you can 'never be denied coverage', and you're all set !

- John (a cynical bas*ard)

I agree that time shares are one of the dumbest ideas ever
(for the buyer). Yet, people still keep buying them, which only proves
again what P. T. Barnum said

JG

 

[AltaRed]

Think some posters need to be a little more objective. While I would never buy a timeshare either for many reasons, including the desire to go where I want when I want, it is pretty clear some posters have done well in the resale market. If it works for them, great!

 

[Bourne]

Timeshares can save you a LOT of money if you shop around and use it creatively. The key is to buy a high quality timeshare in the resale market.

I prefer hotel timeshares for their quality. We own HGVC(Hilton) and Four Seasons. Here is a snapshot of how we have used the HGVC unit in past four years.

With a 10K purchase back in 2001 for 7000pts, we have redeemed about ~50+ nights in varying unit sizes(Hilton Hotel rooms to 2Br HGVC or RCI/SFX Resort Units) at locations like Orlando, Captiva Islands, Hawaii, Miami, Las Vegas, St Maarten, Bahamas, London, Munich, Frankfurt, Auckland & Sydney to name a few.  In addition, it paid for 1/2 the cost(1 person) of a balony unit for 5 Night Caribbean Cruise.

On top of it, we have managed to rent out 1Br unit at Hawaii twice to cover the maintenance fees(700 per year) for the past four years. In addition, the going rate for the unit on Ebay(rock bottom) is ~ $12K.

For me, the investment has gone up 20% over 4 years and has paid a dividend of 50+ nights and 1 cruise.

 

[youbet]

Gosh, what an interesting thread!  I've been casually interested in exploring timeshares and this has been an eye-opener.

My conclusions from what I've read:

1.  Timeshares are sold in the retail market by aggressive salespeople using high pressure tactics.

2.  Most people who buy retail take huge losses if they need to liquidate.

3.  Fees can amount to a substantial ongoing cost.

4.  The retail amount a timeshare unit sells for in aggregate is usually several times what an equivalent unit would sell for in the non-shared, traditional market.  That is, if you purchased all 52 weeks of a timeshare unit, you'd pay several times more than if you purchased an equilvalent nearby condo.

5.  Despite the apparent negatives, a schrewd buyer may find a bargain in the resale market as retail buyers scramble to get out of deals made under high pressure.  The right unit, at the right location and the right weeks may be a good deal if purchased cheap in the resale market.


Getting a good deal sounds like a tough nut to crack!  Congratulations to those who have done it! 

youbet

 

[Brat]

Despite the apparent negatives, a schrewd buyer may find a bargain in the resale market as retail buyers scramble to get out of deals made under high pressure.  The right unit, at the right location and the right weeks may be a good deal if purchased cheap in the resale market.

And if that time and location is a favorite.  Think of it as your 'place at the shore' to which family members retreat every year.

The cost of membership (initiation and annual), in addition to exchange fees, is not chump change.

Been there, done that, sold ours after 20 years for the unit price, but we were lucky.

 

[treypar]

It seems to me that it is just cheaper to rent a vacation place rather than buy a timeshare. No upfront costs and the flexibility to choose a different location when you go. No worries about increasing costs that you cannot control or damage from natural disasters. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Patrick]

It seems to me that it is just cheaper to rent a vacation place rather than buy a timeshare. No upfront costs and the flexibility to choose a different location when you go. No worries about increasing costs that you cannot control or damage from natural disasters. Just my 2 cents.

Absolutely agree. And who wants to go back to the same old place every stinking year? Not this kid . . .

 

[Bourne]

It seems to me that it is just cheaper to rent a vacation place rather than buy a timeshare. No upfront costs and the flexibility to choose a different location when you go. No worries about increasing costs that you cannot control or damage from natural disasters. Just my 2 cents.

Not really...

Then again, it depends on what you buy.

With Four Seasons, the annual maintenance fees is $1750.
After splitting the lockoff, you can stay for 14 days in a 1Br/Studio unit for $125. Four Seasons rates for similar units are north of $350-800. The $125 rate cannot be beat even when you rent from private owners on websites like  Ebay  & Myresortnetwork.com

Rent one side of the lockoff and you can technically stay for 7 nights in a studio unit at Four Seasons for free.  As the cost of maintenance increases at the lesser rate than cost of hotel night, you don't have to worry about increasing cost of vacationing when compared to booking a hotel/condo.

Regarding flexibility, it again depends where you buy. You can move around within a club or exchange using II/RCI/SFX exchange companies.

http://www.fourseasons.com/residenceclubs/explore_your_destinations.html

 

[Cut-Throat]

Not really...

Then again, it depends on what you buy.

With Four Seasons, the annual maintenance fees is $1750.
After splitting the lockoff, you can stay for 14 days in a 1Br/Studio unit for $125. Four Seasons rates for similar units are north of $350-800. The $125 rate cannot be beat even when you rent from private owners on websites like  Ebay  & Myresortnetwork.com

Rent one side of the lockoff and you can technically stay for 7 nights in a studio unit at Four Seasons for free.  As the cost of maintenance increases at the lesser rate than cost of hotel night, you don't have to worry about increasing cost of vacationing when compared to booking a hotel/condo.

Regarding flexibility, it again depends where you buy. You can move around within a club or exchange using II/RCI/SFX exchange companies.

http://www.fourseasons.com/residenceclubs/explore_your_destinations.html

Sounds like a job.

 

[Bourne]

Sounds like a job.

 

Nope...Just a "Not so Young Dreamer"(low 30s) planning to retire at 45.

I love travelling. It is something I cannot let go or delay till the golden years. The only way to do it is to make every vacation dollar count.

 

[laurence]

Nope...Just a "Not so Young Dreamer"(low 30s) planning to retire at 45.

I love travelling. It is something I cannot let go or delay till the golden years. The only way to do it is to make every vacation dollar count.

Hey, I just turned 31, I still say I'm young! Hoping to retire at 45, and I'd say I would be considered young then too!

I think even if you could line up a renter for the lock off portion to make your stay, "free". You still have to factor in the 15k-25k you put up in the beginning. Maybe 20 years of vacationing later you can say you've come out ahead...

 

[Bourne]

I agree that the Four Seasons unit has a lesser bang for the buck than HGVC. I picked it up for 12.5K on Ebay. The "free" lockoff unit retails for 275-350 depending on the season averaging out to $2000 for a 7 night stay. With a 7.5% ROI on 12.5K and 3% inflation on the nightly cost, it would take around 9 years to break even.

Would I ever pay $350 for a hotel night. - Nope
Can I rent Four Seasons with a 12.5K * 7.5% = 1000/7 = 145 a night. - Nope

I see it as a lifestyle decision. It helps us afford Four Seasons at a price that we would normally pay for a Hilton or Sheraton room. The 9 years included.

 

[BabyApe]

xxxxx

 

[laurence]

Has anyone ever tried a house exchange with someone in another city or country? It always seemed like a good idea to me if you could be sure to trust the people.

We have not, but our neighbors did with a family in England. They had the time of their lives, and the English family became fast friends with my parents, and still keep in touch to this day. Very positive experience.