Tropical Tree farms as an investment

[Brat]

Contact the ag extension folks at your state college. They can tell you about the local conditions and pests/diseases. They are in the business of forestry/agriculture.

 

[wildcat]

Tough to say thefed.  Depends on the timing of the cash flows if it actually produces + *** over the 40-50 years.  I don't know if the walnuts will cover property taxes and other yearly expenses so the CF could be negative.  Even if you dish out 250K (I know you mentioned 250K total but spread out) in time 0, pay nothing out over the entire period and collect the 2-3 mil in 40-50 years we are talking about 5-6.5% in nominal returns.  Not overly impressive if you ask me but it could be a good diversifier if that is really what you seek.  Gonna have to factor in the "hassle" factor as well.  Nothing is as care free as it sounds.  If you are considering the project I would collect some solid, realistic numbers and apply the NPV equation in an Excel spreadsheet.  It could give you a rough idea of whether or not it would be worth it.  Just my .02 worth but I don't know a damn thing about timber mgt or black walnuts...    

 

[haha]

If your stand ever matures, you pretty well have to live right there, as timber theft can be a big problem. Also, black walnuts have fairly limited geographic range. My grandparents’ farm in KY had quite a few. The nuts are incredibly tasty, and I believe very high in Omega3 fats. But are they ever a bear to crack! The shells are like concrete vaults. Other thing I remember is that by the time you get the husks off so the nuts in shell can dry, your hands are pretty well dyed yellow-brown -orange for the next few weeks. I sold them door to door in the shell to our city neighbors around Christmas time, as they are much prized in cookies etc.

Still, even if you didn't make any money to speak of, the trees are beautiful and your grand children should enjoy gathering the nuts. Your great grand-kids might even make some beautiful furniture from the timber, which I believe to be the most beautiful wood on earth.

Ha

 

[Danny]

Am I the only one here that thinks 40-50 years is a lonnnnggg time to wait for a payoff? Most of us would be fertilizer by then. What about using the $250k to buy an existing nut tree farm whereever that might be...I see people around the midwest that raise trees (Christmas, etc.) and harvest them. Seems like a lot of work.

You know what I would do if I had $250k, Peter? No, what would you do Lawrence? I would buy TGT and I guarantee that it will outpace the return of a walnut tree farm, and then with the dividends I would get 2 girlfriends.....

Good luck and do follow your dreams!

 

[wabmester]

I would buy TGT and I guarantee that it will outpace the return of a walnut tree farm.

Wow, where do I get a guarantee like that? And why TGT? I read that "discount" stores recently crossed over and now have a bigger market share than non-discount stores. So, I would expect that to mean slower growth, continued skinny margins, and lots of risk if the Chinese revalue their currency again.

 

[Jarhead*]

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but:

buy 40 acres and plant a bunch of BLACK WALNUT trees. Harvest the nuts then the wood. Look into how much it's worth (and how much they cost to raise!). it peaked my interest a few yrs back

Anyone ever look into black walnuts?

If you want to grow something and not wait for years and years to be productive, go to Humbolt County on the No. Calif. Coast, and be a small time "pot" grower.

Those little towns would whither and die without the cash infusion that "growers" make.
The DEA and local businesses know this, and mostly look the other way.

The sentences are light, and what the hell, room and board for a while.

Just an idea.

 

[thefed]

If you want to grow something and not wait for years and years to be productive, go to Humbolt County on the No. Calif. Coast, and be a small time "pot" grower.

Those little towns would whither and die without the cash infusion that "growers" make.
The DEA and local businesses know this, and mostly look the other way.

The sentences are light, and what the hell, room and board for a while.

Just an idea.

i know firsthand that it can be profitable. ie 60k/yr in a 12x12 room. sounds SOOOOOOOO enticing, but i already had a little problem in that area.

and your right, the penalties are not stiff. so if you've got a clean record, try it. You'd probably like it...

 

[Danny]

Wow, where do I get a guarantee like that? And why TGT? I read that "discount" stores recently crossed over and now have a bigger market share than non-discount stores. So, I would expect that to mean slower growth, continued skinny margins, and lots of risk if the Chinese revalue their currency again.

Check back with me on Dec 31, 2010.
If TGT stock's value of 5,000 shares (Oct 29 - $54.50) = $272,500 hasn't at least doubled(including accumulated divs and accounting for stock splits), then I guarantee to pay you the amount of the difference in value of that holding below $545,000.
But in return you have to promise to pay me the amount of the difference in value of that holding that exceeds $545,000. Deal? 8)

 

[wabmester]

Check back with me on Dec 31, 2010.
If TGT stock's value of 5,000 shares (Oct 29 - $54.50) = $272,500 hasn't doubled(including accumulated divs and accounting for stock splits), then I guarantee to pay you the amount of the difference in value of that holding below $545,000.
But in return you have to promise to pay me the amount of the difference in value of that holding that exceeds $545,000. Deal?  8)

Sorry, I only take sure bets.   So, tell you what I'm going to do.   I will take that bet if we can change the strike price to $80, exclude dividends, change the expiration date to Jan 2007, and you give me $2000 so I can buy the call options. 

Oh, and did I mention my Boycott Target campaign that involves having naked homeless people picket in front of the stores?

Seriously, I'm tempted to take the bet on your terms.   TGT would have to return 15%/year for you to win.   Given that they already have a high P/E for a low-margin retailer, your odds don't look too good to me.    What makes you like TGT so much?

Edit: D'oh! I just realized this is a sure bet for me. OK, let's have Martha write up the contract.

 

[Danny]

Sorry, I only take sure bets. So, tell you what I'm going to do. I will take that bet if we can change the strike price to $80, exclude dividends, change the expiration date to Jan 2007, and you give me $2000 so I can buy the call options.

Oh, and did I mention my Boycott Target campaign that involves having naked homeless people picket in front of the stores?

Seriously, I'm tempted to take the bet on your terms. TGT would have to return 15%/year for you to win. Given that they already have a high P/E for a low-margin retailer, your odds don't look too good to me. What makes you like TGT so much?

I am familiar with management, their strategy, philosophy and long term plan...

Wab - Edit: D'oh! I just realized this is a sure bet for me.
How so?

 

[wabmester]

I am familiar with management, their strategy, philosophy and long term plan...

Hmm, your name isn't Gerald Storch, is it? 

In any case, I'd still like to take your bet.   Even their CEO can't guarantee 15%/year growth.   Lots of things are outside the control of insiders, like competition, finicky consumer trends, third-party costs, the economy, and how the stock market will value your growth.

How so? [regarding sure bet]

All I would need to do is buy 5000 shares of TGT, and you just guaranteed me a risk-free return of 15%/year.   I would happily give up any upside beyond that to you in exchange for that guaranteed rate of return.

 

[sgeeeee]

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but:

buy 40 acres and plant a bunch of BLACK WALNUT trees. Harvest the nuts then the wood. Look into how much it's worth (and how much they cost to raise!). it peaked my interest a few yrs back

Anyone ever look into black walnuts?

I don't think this will work in most of the Sonoran Desert where I live. But I have thought about planting Saguaro cactus. Landscapers charge over $100 per linear foot of cactus. It may take 50 years or more, but you could end up with a lot of value for almost no investment.

 

[Danny]

Hmm, your name isn't George Storch, is it?

In any case, I'd still like to take your bet. Even their CEO can't guarantee 15%/year growth. Lots of things are outside the control of insiders, like competition, finicky consumer trends, third-party costs, the economy, and how the stock market will value your growth.

All I would need to do is buy 5000 shares of TGT, and you just guaranteed me a risk-free return of 15%. I would happily give up any upside beyond that to you in exchange for that guaranteed rate of return.

No, my name isn't George or Gerry.
Are you going to buy 5,000 shares and hold them for over 5 years wab?

 

[wabmester]

Are you going to buy 5,000 shares and hold them for over 5 years wab? 

Yes. As soon as we get the paperwork back from Martha.

 

[Danny]

Yes. As soon as we get the paperwork back from Martha.

As you may recall, I never mentioned lawyers, what's wrong with you? Don't you trust me?
You buy the 5000 shares Monday. We do this without lawyers, just our word as gentlemen. You get to benefit from all my research and knowledge and increase your net worth and you then on Dec 31, 2010 are prepared to show you owned the shares throughout the period. Then let the reckoning of who owes what to who happen
Now, I've been more than helpful to you what are going to do in return?

 

[wabmester]

Now, I've been more than helpful to you what are going to do in return? 

You're right.   I shouldn't look an internet stock tip gift horse in the mouth.

I've got one word for you.   Are you listening, DT?

Plastics!

 

[Danny]

You're right. I shouldn't look an internet stock tip gift horse in the mouth.

I've got one word for you. Are you listening, DT?

Plastics!

Thank you, Mr. Wabinson!

But I own plenty already. I need to have a stock tip I can sink my teeth into, anal-ize and research to death. What are you excited about right now?

 

[wildcat]

i know firsthand that it can be profitable. ie 60k/yr in a 12x12 room. sounds SOOOOOOOO enticing, but i already had a little problem in that area.

and your right, the penalties are not stiff. so if you've got a clean record, try it. You'd probably like it

Did I just read that?

 

[HFWR]

Hey, Wildcat, you should know that weed is Ky's number one crop...

 

[wildcat]

That's why I didn't wander too far from the streams + lakes during my fishing expeditions.

 

[Brat]

Hey, Wildcat, you should know that weed is Ky's number one crop... 

In my former life I audited the HR processes of a lumber mill.  Drug testing was a major reason for non-selection.  "Pot?", asked I.  "No, that's the local cash crop.  Meth, if they could stay off of it for a week or two it wouldn't show in the UA.", replied the HR manager.

 

[wildcat]

Ok I have been exposed. I am really a for profit weed farmer. Meth is part of my operation's long-term vision. I am on the ER board to recruit some investors to fund it. Guaranteed profits of 20+% annual and totally uncorrelated with the mkt. But anyway how bout them Wildcats.

 

[peteyperson]

Hey Doug,

There are some of these out in NZ and they are not a scam. They buy the land, plant the seeds, and the harvests come in 25-30 years. One can also buy several years old in order to cut down the timeline. Happy investors from before apparently. Big business in NZ.

Can't speak for Costa Rica.

Petey

Ok, this Google Ad for Tropical Tree Farms kept showing up on my Costa Rica Travel Blog page and so I had to check it out.

It sounds like an interesting idea. You give them a chunk of cash to plant 100 trees ($3-4000 depending on the type of trees) in Costa Rica and then you get a steady income at the various harvest points (7, 10, 13, 17, 21 and 25 years). Based on one projection of the increase in tropical hardwood lumber prices, your initial investment pays off a total of $118,000. The income stream if it's real sounds pretty amazing. And they are claiming a very environmentally sensitive operation. Sounds really good. Can even do investment in your IRA.

Has anyone had any experience with this type of investment or this company?  I'd love to hear feedback, experiences.

 

[brewer12345]

Thank you, Mr. Wabinson!

But I own plenty already. I need to have a stock tip I can sink my teeth into, anal-ize and research to death. What are you excited about right now?

For gambling money go buy some January or February 50 calls on PPD. Short squeeze is on tap.

For long term, I think CHC looks fairly absurdly cheap. STON is cheap, too.

 

[david99]

Ok, this Google Ad for Tropical Tree Farms kept showing up on my Costa Rica Travel Blog page and so I had to check it out.

It sounds like an interesting idea. You give them a chunk of cash to plant 100 trees ($3-4000 depending on the type of trees) in Costa Rica and then you get a steady income at the various harvest points (7, 10, 13, 17, 21 and 25 years). Based on one projection of the increase in tropical hardwood lumber prices, your initial investment pays off a total of $118,000. The income stream if it's real sounds pretty amazing. And they are claiming a very environmentally sensitive operation. Sounds really good. Can even do investment in your IRA.

Has anyone had any experience with this type of investment or this company? I'd love to hear feedback, experiences.

DON'T DO IT! I invested in this company, and seriously regret it. For more information, see the following link:

Investors Hub - Investing in Timber

Many unhappy investors in TATF have posted on this board.

David