Umbrella coverage and golf carts

[Stormy Kromer]

Do you have to tell insurance people everything you do or buy? If you never think to mention it, do they deny coverage if you file a claim? If you whack into someone on a golf cart you borrow from a friend does your umbrella deny coverage?

If it has a motor you better tell them. Take a look at the exclusion section of your policies.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

May as well use the car, ends up cheaper in the long run. Why does one really need a golf cart? I suppose if one's car is a huge one and hard to park may be a reason, I would be inclined to get a smaller car or a Jeep rather than a cart. This seems like just another excuse for an insurance to further limit their risk.

 

[freedomatlast]

I don't have golf cart insurance, riding mower insurance, snow blower insurance, pressure washer insurance, power tool insurance or drone insurance. Got to draw the line somewhere.

 

[Aerides]

It's not so much a matter of insuring the golf cart - the OP was told by her Umbrella carrier than a golf cart was a non-starter for coverage at all.

IOW, had there been some claim against their policy and it was later found that they had golf carts, there might have been coverage issues - undoubtedly if the claim involved the golf cart. So at least now they know vs. finding out the hard way later. I'm sure there are other carriers out there who will allow them.

 

[freedomatlast]

Doesn't really matter that the insurer told her. She needs to read the policy, see how the policy is written and if the language doesn't exclude golf carts, she's good to go. My insurer has told me things that differed from what was stated in the policy and when I called headquarters for clarification, they told me to go by strictly what was written in the policy, not what an agent may have said over the phone.

 

[Aerides]

Doesn't really matter that the insurer told her.

OP said she was told they would be cancelled, so unless that doesn't materialize, it sounds like the door is closed.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I was mistaken. I went back to look at my golf cart policy. The coverage is pretty high.
Policy Coverages

Bodily Injury Liability
$250,000 Per Person

$500,000 Per Occurrence

Property Damage Liability
$100,000 Per Occurrence

Uninsured or Underinsured Motorist - Bodily Injury
$250,000 Per Person

$500,000 Per Accident

 

[Sunset]

I'm wondering now, about 3 wheeled bikes that are electric.
Seems like it would be a lot cheaper at only $1,500, than a golf cart and with a range of 60 miles pretty useful.

 

[audreyh1]

May as well use the car, ends up cheaper in the long run. Why does one really need a golf cart? I suppose if one's car is a huge one and hard to park may be a reason, I would be inclined to get a smaller car or a Jeep rather than a cart. This seems like just another excuse for an insurance to further limit their risk.

We have mild generally very nice winter weather. People like toodling around seeing and being seen. Easy to stop and chat with other carts and walkers. I have come to understand the social aspect, although we don’t have a cart and aren’t into the social scene. It does provide frequent amusement.

 

[Fermion]

In our town, ATVs are legal within the city limits so while we don't have people scooting around in golf carts, I do constantly a lot of the dune buggy style ATVs. Those things are EXPENSIVE now, wow. Almost the price of a small car.

 

[freedomatlast]

I don't have golf cart insurance, riding mower insurance, snow blower insurance, pressure washer insurance, power tool insurance or drone insurance. Got to draw the line somewhere.

Forgot to add we don't have bicycle or ebike insurance, and don't plan on adding or asking about any of them.

I just looked closely at our umbrella policy and there's no statements excluding any of the above. I'd recommend OP read her policy and report back. Again, what's actually written in the policy is what would hold up in court if it came to that, not what somebody said.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Forgot to add we don't have bicycle or ebike insurance, and don't plan on adding or asking about any of them.

I just looked closely at our umbrella policy and there's no statements excluding any of the above. I'd recommend OP read her policy and report back. Again, what's actually written in the policy is what would hold up in court if it came to that, not what somebody said.

I'm not going to start quoting words from insurance policies. But for an umbrella to kick in, your primary Homeowners has to pay first. That' the exclusion you need to look for. Look under Motor Vehicles, its there. If its excluded under your Homeowners....your Umbrella isn't going to kick in anyway, they don't need to exclude it since your primary policy didn't cover it.

When I stated earler that you need to tell your insurer about anything with a motor I should have stated anything with a motor that moves you. There are exceptions to the exclusion for motor vehicles that service the premises and those to assist the handi-capped.

I can also tell everyone this, even attorneys on this forum, don't try to outthink your insurance company. They write the rules of the contract and they are all court tested. Just ask them if you're in doubt and do what they tell you. If they tell you that you aren't covered, believe them before something happens. If you have something that isn't covered don't wait for something to happen to tell them that you had an e bike, golf cart, atv....if it isn't covered they aren't going to let you buy coverage after something happens.

If you don't like what they tell you go to another insurance company. They advertise every 5 minutes on TV.

 

[CRLLS]

The cynic in me tells me that if there is something that an insurance company can write a policy on by excluding it from another policy, they will. It is understandable. I think that many people would actually want a full coverage policy including comprehensive, collision and theft coverage in addition to just liability. Some carts can cost as much as a small car. I don't have one and never shopped for one. I don't know how many are sold with a loan. I bet the loan company requires comprehensive and collision and theft.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

The cynic in me tells me that if there is something that an insurance company can write a policy on by excluding it from another policy, they will. It is understandable. I think that many people would actually want a full coverage policy including comprehensive, collision and theft coverage in addition to just liability. Some carts can cost as much as a small car. I don't have one and never shopped for one. I don't know how many are sold with a loan. I bet the loan company requires comprehensive and collision and theft.

You are right..but the lender..they couldn',t care less if you have liability coverage if you hurt someone....

Its all fun til somebody gets hurt (or sued)

 

[athena53]

The cynic in me tells me that if there is something that an insurance company can write a policy on by excluding it from another policy, they will. It is understandable.

I agree and most of the time there's a good reason for it. If the stats show that a golf cart, a private plane or a large jewelry or gun collection produce significant losses, should those costs be spread over the entire insured population or should they be borne by the people who actually have those in their possession?

Do you have to tell insurance people everything you do or buy? If you never think to mention it, do they deny coverage if you file a claim? If you whack into someone on a golf cart you borrow from a friend does your umbrella deny coverage?

Scary questions. First of all, they WILL deny the claim if it's not covered by the policy and it's your job to read the policy. I never thought of the borrowed golf cart question- now I need to find out if my own policies cover them. If not, I better not borrow my niece's. The owner's insurer may pay the claim but they'll go after you for the money if you're the one at fault.

 

[Scuba]

The insurance company has said our umbrella policy will be cancelled in about 6 weeks due to the golf cart issue. I will take their word for that. Umbrella coverage attaches to auto, not homeowners. It is possible to buy standalone umbrella policies, but they cost 2-3 times what our previous umbrella insurance cost. Therefore it seems the best option is for us to shop for a new auto/umbrella carrier. If for whatever reason we cannot find one for a competitive cost, then we can either choose to go without umbrella and try again in the future, or pay more for the standalone umbrella coverage.

I wish I had known a golf cart would create these kinds of issues. We certainly don’t “need” a golf cart. Just thought it would be fun to have one. Apparently many of our neighbors who have golf carts either don’t also have umbrella coverage or haven’t mentioned the golf carts to their auto/umbrella carrier.

 

[athena53]

Umbrella coverage attaches to auto, not homeowners. It is possible to buy standalone umbrella policies, but they cost 2-3 times what our previous umbrella insurance cost. Therefore it seems the best option is for us to shop for a new auto/umbrella carrier. If for whatever reason we cannot find one for a competitive cost, then we can either choose to go without umbrella and try again in the future, or pay more for the standalone umbrella coverage.

I'd vote heavily in favor of keeping all the coverage with one insurer if you can. This means that there's consistency between what the underlying policies cover or exclude and what the umbrella does. It also means that in the nightmare scenario of a large claim, the company is going to use all its big guns to minimize the settlement or judgment because they're on the hook for the whole thing- not just up to the underlying policy limit but the umbrella limit.

I'm sorry you're going through this- it seems unfair that you did the right thing and asked about coverage for the golf cart and got dropped as a result.

 

[badatmath]

I'm not going to start quoting words from insurance policies. But for an umbrella to kick in, your primary Homeowners has to pay first. That' the exclusion you need to look for. Look under Motor Vehicles, its there. If its excluded under your Homeowners....your Umbrella isn't going to kick in anyway, they don't need to exclude it since your primary policy didn't cover it.

When I stated earler that you need to tell your insurer about anything with a motor I should have stated anything with a motor that moves you. There are exceptions to the exclusion for motor vehicles that service the premises and those to assist the handi-capped.

I can also tell everyone this, even attorneys on this forum, don't try to outthink your insurance company. They write the rules of the contract and they are all court tested. Just ask them if you're in doubt and do what they tell you. If they tell you that you aren't covered, believe them before something happens. If you have something that isn't covered don't wait for something to happen to tell them that you had an e bike, golf cart, atv....if it isn't covered they aren't going to let you buy coverage after something happens.

If you don't like what they tell you go to another insurance company. They advertise every 5 minutes on TV.

+1 Same principle if homeowners or auto. Underlying policy has to cover before the umbrella kicks in

 

[athena53]

I did a search on golf cart liability claims hoping to find out what made them such a high risk to insure and all I could find (naturally) were sites advertising golf cart coverage. I know that your current insurer refused that solution (I have no idea why) but maybe on your next try you could buy the separate policy and not mention any golf cart ownership to the prospective auto/homeowners/umbrella insurer. My only caveat on that is that if they ask, you HAVE to tell the truth. Just don't volunteer it, and hope they don't ask why you were cancelled mid-term.

 

[GrayHare]

Scuba, maybe you could switch to renting a golf cart instead of owning one.

 

[ncbill]

Buy a Smart EV instead?

They ain't much bigger than a golf cart...

 

[Kings over Queens]

Have you checked with an agent who represents Travelers? I suspect they aren't going to be interested in your house coverage, but might do the car and excess. It seems they consider a golf cart a recreational vehicle and from what I can tell, include coverage for them.

 

[Scuba]

I'd vote heavily in favor of keeping all the coverage with one insurer if you can. This means that there's consistency between what the underlying policies cover or exclude and what the umbrella does. It also means that in the nightmare scenario of a large claim, the company is going to use all its big guns to minimize the settlement or judgment because they're on the hook for the whole thing- not just up to the underlying policy limit but the umbrella limit.

I'm sorry you're going through this- it seems unfair that you did the right thing and asked about coverage for the golf cart and got dropped as a result.

Thanks, I agree completely that it is optimal to keep everything with one carrier. Having said that, if I cannot find one carrier that will write it all, or the cost increase to make it happen is prohibitive, I may end up with separate policies.

I was surprised when I moved to FL that it was not possible in the market we purchased in to get one carrier for all insurance. We were with Allstate for 25+ years and they always had everything - homeowners, auto and umbrella. Here, so many insurers have left the market that the folks who write homeowners do not also write auto or umbrella.

 

[Scuba]

Have you checked with an agent who represents Travelers? I suspect they aren't going to be interested in your house coverage, but might do the car and excess. It seems they consider a golf cart a recreational vehicle and from what I can tell, include coverage for them.

The agent who sold us our current Travelers policy is the one I've been dealing with. Travelers wrote our auto and umbrella originally, but sent a letter of cancellation when they realized we had a golf cart with rear-facing rear seats.

 

[Scuba]

Scuba, maybe you could switch to renting a golf cart instead of owning one.

I asked DH today if he wanted to just sell the golf cart since it's causing these issues, but he doesn't. We haven't used it much yet because the weather hasn't been very conducive, but he thinks it will be fun to have it once it stops raining so much and gets warmer. I suspect he's right. It's just a bummer that we didn't know these problems up front. By the way, there is nowhere to rent carts in our neighborhood as we don't live in a golf course development. People just like to ride around the neighborhood in them, take them up to the Clubhouse, etc.