Vacation Home vs. Renting Hotel

2400 rent per month for a 350k property is about right for our area.

Don't forget this included all utilities, garbage pickup, HS internet, cable TV, was completely furnished right down to the TP and a cleaning when we left.

Oh, I forgot the heated pool complex, gym and special rates at the golf course.

A home away from home..
 
The decision is not all about the numbers. Resorts have some facilities that we would never use.

Lifestyle and personal preferences are very much part of the process. Access is an issue for us.

We are not be interested in any NA snowbird or Hawaii locations. Our preference is the Pacific coast of Mexico or Costa Rica/Panama. We would have to consider what is best from an airline perspective. Direct flights, competitive fares play a part in this.
 
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We purchased a vacation home on the Eastern Shore of MD. On the water, deeded boat slip, condo townhome. 2.5 hours so great for weekends, etc. We paid $395k in 2007 at top of RE market, even made improvements and sold in 2015 for $230k, after waiting years for market to bounce back (it still hasnt). It was not a good decision and we should have just stayed at hotels or short term rentals. Worst financial mistake I ever made.
 
Owning a vacation rental sounds fun. Think of it as a business, not fun.

I own a vacation rental, near Kissimmee, FL. Disney World, Sea World, Universal Studios, Discover Cove, Busch Gardens, etc. are all there. One of the busiest vacation places in the USA. It is busy all year round.

I need several business licenses, and must collect and pay sales tax of 13.5%. Every month I have to fill out a sales tax report for both Florida and Osceola county, and if I do not fill it out, I get rewarded with a penalty. Even if I am vacant for the entire month.

From a tax perspective, if I stay in it over 14-days, I cannot take a loss. I never meet that 14-day threshold, so I get any tax write-offs available. I do maintenance when I am there, that doesn’t count towards the 14-days. This trip I am replacing a kitchen sink, replace washer and dryer, replace door handle, touch up paint, inspect the new floors I paid $8K for, and clean, clean, clean. I get 5-star reviews and want to keep it that way.

You will likely be there more than 14-days. You will lose on the property from a tax perspective if you run it correctly and you will not be allowed the loss. Depreciation, travel to it, maintenance, etc. all take their toll. When I do a round trip. It’s over 4,000 miles at $0.58 a mile deduction. Plus, hotels and meals for the entire trip. That’s about a $3K deduction. Then, add in all the repairs items that you have to buy, a sink and new drains, area rug, door knob, paint, etc.

I get an average of ~$112 a night. YTD I am booked 190 days across 37 bookings. The low is $95 (so far) and the high is $190. The place cost me ~$175K in a 1031 Exchange, plus furniture, etc. Far less than you are spending. It is a deeded townhome, and I own that unit exclusively. The ground is owned by the Condo Association.

You will likely not get 100% occupancy, ever. Shoot for ~60%. It is near impossible to get 100%, unless you have a long-term stay. Put in four guests stays of 5 or 6 days each, and it's hard to fill in the gaps. You wind up with ~60% occupancy. I sometimes get people for a month, and that helps. Know what occupancy is where you are planning on buying. If you want to stay in it during the busy and most expensive time, plan on even less.

You need a marketing company to handle the rentals, or do it yourself. There are fees for AirBnB, HomeAway, VRBO, FlipKey and Evolve. They handle payments and credit card processing (for a fee). I use Evolve Vacation Rental. They charge 10%, plus 3% for credit card processing. Plus, the Guest pays a few fees, like TicketMaster. The Guest pays for insurance, cleaning ($95), and I think a booking fee.

You need someone on the ground to handle maintenance and cleaning between tenants. Especially when you have back-to-back tenants, like I do a few times each month. They charge a fee as well. Even if you are vacant, or you are staying there. I pay $120 a month.

My costs are $420 for Association fees; Property taxes $200; Electricity $75; insurance $50; water $50; pest control $25. I pay that no matter if I am vacant or full.

Depending on where you buy, a resort may require you to use their rental office. And the resort will upgrade your unit when they want, as they want the resort to be top notch. They may have a higher priority on the rental that they own, not yours. They may charge 30%+, and add in more fees for anticipated maintenance, towel service, etc. The list is endless. You may not even get to stay in your unit when you get there.

Whatever you decide is good, just be aware there is a lot more to a vacation rental than just buying a place.

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OP,
Since you’re a bean counter, can you run the same analysis on buying a RV over 20 years?

The problem with a vacation home is that it’s in one location. And I have yet to travel anywhere in the USA that I want to go back to consistently. Thus, a motor home or boat is a better option. As we love to travel and see new things.
 
Great post Senator,

Inquiring minds want to know how they police that 14 day requirement. if you don't use credit cards or debit cards. How would they ever know if you slipped in 20 or 25? I'm just asking because it seems like an easy one to get around.

Do I understand the association fees are 420 a month? If you weren't able to use this unit to offset income from other sources how much do you think would actually go in your pocket every year?
 
I consider my resale timeshares kind of like a second home especially since you can purchase weekly stays for $50 to $200 per day in 2 bedroom Marriott/Westin/Sheraton/Wyndham/Hilton timeshares in certain locations (Orlando for example) year round.

Here are two couples (not me) that do it year round for very little:
"We'll share with you how we retired and are traveling cheap, eating well, and living in beautiful resorts with a targeted budget of less than $3,000 per month."
http://www.fulltimetimeshare.com

Ron and Joan
"We sold our house in June 2008 and are now timesharing full-time, traveling around the country."
https://ronandjoanjourney.blogspot.com
 
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Great post Senator,

Inquiring minds want to know how they police that 14 day requirement. if you don't use credit cards or debit cards. How would they ever know if you slipped in 20 or 25? I'm just asking because it seems like an easy one to get around.

Do I understand the association fees are 420 a month? If you weren't able to use this unit to offset income from other sources how much do you think would actually go in your pocket every year?

The US Tax code, is pretty much on the honor system. Not just for this, for most things. You could stay at a hotel next door, and have the same credit card receipts as staying in your own unit. No one has a binocular across the street and is watching you. For me, traffic and people are not really my thing, so I do not stay there very long. And I am working on stuff when I am there. I purchased it to make money, and save capital gains taxes, not vacation.

My association fees are $420 a month. I do not have a mortgage. My projections are ~$6K a year profit, although I just spend $10K on new floors and a washer and dryer. About the same projection as my property prior to the 1031, except now I have a 110-year newer place, in a better side of town.
 
Yes Todd you are starting to figure it out! With your level of wealth, this is a lifestyle decision almost entirely and represents an asset that will also cost you quite a bit on an ongoing basis. You can afford it. If it is highly likely to enhance your life, do it. It will likely appreciate at the rate of inflation over a long period. DO NOT rent it out. You don’t need that or want that, in my opinion.
 
I've owned a beautiful Log Home vacation home for 6 years with the best Panoramic mountain views .. I rented it out .. It is a lot of maintenance. Restain the logs every 2 years, carpenter bees boring into the logs, trees falling, deep well run dry once and had to go drill a deeper well, mowing 3 acres, wasp and yellow jackets chasing you around, renters who break things, etc. Every time we visit the log home, there's a lot of work to do. Once we sold it ... we rented log homes .. and we never worried about cleaning or maintaining it .. when we arrive, we just enjoyed it.
 
I guess I should have said her girlfriends. None for me as a wife is enough lol

Before I go, I just want you to know something, alright? The super stud story was working. Okay? It was working, and you just messed it up.

(Eddie Murphy paraphrased in Beverly Hills Cop)
 
Issue: Buying a vacation home vs. just staying at hotels. Obviously it depends upon how often you stay at the vacation home....but the longer you stay at the vacation home, the more it's really a home home and not a vacation home.

I made this decision 10+ years ago and bought the vacation home. I'll just throw in a few random comments for you to consider in making your decision. I think it is ultimately a personal decision and should not just be made based on the finances.

1. You can probably rent your vacation home...it produces income and a tax deduction, offset of course by any gain.

2. Renting means you must factor marketing into every decorating (and other) choice you make. You also have additional expenses.

3. If you don't rent, consider security. A vacant house invites squatters even in great neighborhoods and resorts.

4. 75 nights is only 2.5 months. The retirees that rented my vacation home typically stayed 3-4 months.

5. Your expense estimate may be very low for an unoccupied home. Insurance and so forth might be much higher.

I'm not an accountant but I put together a much more detailed spreadsheet at the time, pulled the trigger, and did what was necessary to make everything work out in all ways. Would I do it again, maybe.
 
Yes Todd you are starting to figure it out! With your level of wealth, this is a lifestyle decision almost entirely and represents an asset that will also cost you quite a bit on an ongoing basis. You can afford it. If it is highly likely to enhance your life, do it. It will likely appreciate at the rate of inflation over a long period. DO NOT rent it out. You don’t need that or want that, in my opinion.

having done it both ways (renting and non renting)....I will agree that renting it out changes the dynamic immensely. If you do rent out, you will want a nice owners closet for your clothes, small fridge (so plug in closet) for your fridge items, and space to store stuff.

What I have personally employed is a "rent stout if we need to" strategy. So if things go south, know that we could, but don't unless we need to.
 
OP,
Since you’re a bean counter, can you run the same analysis on buying a RV over 20 years?

The problem with a vacation home is that it’s in one location. And I have yet to travel anywhere in the USA that I want to go back to consistently. Thus, a motor home or boat is a better option. As we love to travel and see new things.

I had the exact same thought - my initial plan was a vacation home on Padre Island. After looking at costs and being realistic about how much time we'd spend there, I moved to hotel rooms and condo rentals. After a couple of years adding up what I spent on those, I bought a travel trailer.

It paid for itself in the first year and I can take it where ever I want to go. In fact, I can reserve a spot in a state park on Padre Island right next to the beach for $25 a night.

And guess what? There is also a market for renting out your travel trailer when you aren't using it.
 
We would lend out our vacation home to friends & family. Typically it would come back in decent shape. A broken dish here & there. Once (and only) time we did a favor for a neighbor & rented to family coming to visit. The home was a disaster. I got there before Mrs Scrapr. And cleaned up "some". But not nearly enough to satisfy Mrs Scrapr. She was nearly in tears. Based on the after action bottle count they had a lot of folks there.

We never rented again, nor lent it out
 
I am 14 years into the own-it vs. rent it decision. We snow ski and love water so I build on the small lake in ski country. The kids were 5 and 7 now 19 and 21 .... some of thier best memories come from the lake.

BUT it was cost prohibitive to leave it vacant when we didn't want it ... so I rent it out via 1/2 dozen web sites. The place took a while to get a following (lost $$ the first few years) but now grosses over 50k/yr. So if we want to go stay in a $250/night hotel room ... we can.

PS Senator nailed it .... it's "work". Just need to decide it's what you want.
 
Stay at Air B&B
WOW! That’s the best answer yet. We had a non rented house in Cancun near wife’s parents, a non rented beach house on the sea of Cortez, and a non rented house in Tucson for several years. The upkeep kept me busy for half the Vacation. I felt dumb going on cruises, Rv vacations, and exploring new places around the world because I had three anchors I was spending time and money on every month.
We sold all three and now I’m really retired.
 
Stay at Air B&B
WOW! That’s the best answer yet. We had a non rented house in Cancun near wife’s parents, a non rented beach house on the sea of Cortez, and a non rented house in Tucson for several years. The upkeep kept me busy for half the Vacation. I felt dumb going on cruises, Rv vacations, and exploring new places around the world because I had three anchors I was spending time and money on every month.
We sold all three and now I’m really retired.

There is definitely a balance to it and one needs to ensure “their stuff doesn’t own them”.

That being said for me personally I have found that vacation rentals are more work than I want, however, a non rented 2nd home that is used a bunch and is a nexus for family and friends is priceless. On this point ymmv.
 
When I was a kid our family always spent 2 months of the summer at the family cottage on a lake in Canada. I totally loved it. I had a circle of friends there, as did my sister. I noticed that over time, some people did not return, and I always thought that was odd, and that I would keep returning every year. During my career, I would come to the cottage for a week or two with DW and the kids, but my sister could continue doing 6-8 weeks.

Over the years, my kids never got the connection to the lake that I used to have, and DW and I found that we really enjoyed visiting other places as well. Also, my circle of friends mostly drifted away. By the time our parents died, my sister and her kids were totally plugged in to the cottage but my family was much less so. We decided to let my sister take it over totally, as DW and I really wanted to travel to new and different places nearly all the time. We now only visit the lake one week every couple years, and have decided that a permanent vacation home is not the thing for us.
 
I haven't read all the posts, so not sure if anyone mentioned the concern about safety when you aren't on the property. This will involve vandals/thieves/weather/systems malfunctions.

Most of the desirable locations have some sort of natural phenomena like wildfires/hurricanes/mudslides/flooding that can weigh on your conscience, and nerves, along with the natural aging/malfunction of infrastructures of the home that will need replacing/repaired. All of this is non issues with a hotel, but not as personable.
 
We are not ready for it yet and when we are we might just rent. We spend two months snowbirding in Thailand each year and another 6-8 weeks in Europe each fall. Not much time left for a vacation home that requires upkeep. We are not ready to spend months in one place. Our travel destination bucket list is still very long and it seems to get longer each year.
 
We are not ready for it yet and when we are we might just rent. We spend two months snowbirding in Thailand each year and another 6-8 weeks in Europe each fall. Not much time left for a vacation home that requires upkeep. We are not ready to spend months in one place. Our travel destination bucket list is still very long and it seems to get longer each year.



This is what we are doing this year with another 75 days or so at our 2nd home. This home is in an overnight rental program managed by a company specializing in this market.

I have now spent my 3rd night at our 2nd home this year and already have some observations. Overall the place looks good minus some normal
Wear and tear. But just being here 2 nights I already have 3 things on my list that I want to fix or change. I am having to remind myself the purpose of the place and to not get emotionally attached. It’s not a place that I would want to live in full time. Decoration style is fine but being A sturdy log home it’s loud. However I think when purchasing something you go with the flow and purchase
What is around you. It is much more comfortable than being in a hotel. Plenty of entertainment options in the cabin and close to anything you need or could want.

We’ll be dropping in a couple
Of nights a week over the next month in between rentals to take in the area and ride motorcycles. Then it’s
Off to Europe until Thanksgiving.
 

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