Vacation homes for the FIRE'd

[Ronstar]

Seems like you like to play snowbirds, perhaps due to roots in your state.

Yes- we have roots here in Illinois - MIL, BIL & SIL's, friends, DW's job. I can escape from my job for about a week and then I have to get back. DW can only escape 3-4 times a year so the other trips I go solo. But I like the snowbird deal. I love being outdoors as much as possible, and Az is far better than IL for outdoor activities 3 out of 4 seasons

 

[kat]

I don't think rejection of LBYM had anything to do with my choice to buy a second home -- I still spend less.

I had big income years in 2003 and 2004, and by 2007 I found the tiny beautiful mountain place I wanted, and paid cash for it. I had purchased my city house in 1992 and paid off the mortgage and my student loans by '97.

My country place costs $3700 a year in taxes and utilities and security system (because it's small). My total housing cost, both houses, is $10,000.

I expect to sell it when I am 80, about 35 years from now. In the meantime, I am planting fruit trees and bushes, and perhaps some black walnut trees. I have a huge garden too.

I think my city house might be the "waste", but I have intangible reasons to be there, and I don't think renting will fill the need. I have a big lovable German shepherd too. And I love my city neighborhood.

Moemg, I was self-employed for the last half of my career, and I got in the habit of wanting to take vacations in "up" years, when income was higher, about every three years. It was good practice for being retired. I don't have a line item in my budget for big travel. I just look at the numbers when I want to take a big vacation and see if it works. (Smaller vacations come out of the budget.)

 

[fisherman]

We bought a lake home five years ago as a vacation home and possible future retirement home once th kids are gone. We paid cash for it so we do own it free and clear as well. It is about 60 miles form our main home.

The lake house is in a small subdivision with good neighbors. About a third of the neighbors are full time and the rest part time. our neighbors on both sides are full time so they watch the place for us which is nice but we really do not worry about it. If something happens that is what the Ins is for.

We have averaged 80 to 120 days a year there. We go 2 to 3 weekends most of the year and then usually spend spring break there as well as part of the summer and Christmas break. DW and I also use it separately for her to have a girls weekend or me to have a guys fishing weekend a couple of times per year.

We do travel to other places also each year either camping in the TT or staying in FL for a couple of weeks at least in the fall.

ESR has really help the travel time and lake house time although we found ways to use it a lot before ESR also.

I do all the maintenance myself which for now I enjoy and that keeps the cost down. Taxes and Ins are much less than our primary residence and utilities certainly are. It however is not considered an investment. We do imagine that we will be able to sell it for more than we paid but the rate of return after expenses and deductions would not even match a tax deferred bond so it is a toy. The current tax appraisal is 50% higher than we purchased at and still lower than homes in the neighborhood have sold for this year so if we sold this year it might work out to be a half decent investment but that is not going to happen. Long term that % is very likely to drop.

We keep our boats there at the dock ready to go year around and that is worth a lot to us. It has also been a great place to spend family time and entertain upon occasion.

We keep it fully stocked with cloths and toys as well as some food in the freezer. This means all we have to take is perishable food and Walmart is only 4 miles away if we need anything else. We use a programmable thermostat and just turn the water off when we leave so its not to much work to open or close the place.

We did try renting it as a vacation rental one year before ESR as a fall back plan test and $ wise it was good in that it cleared $1000 a month for the year. We were still able to use it some as well since it was being rented as a vacation rental. The bad part is it limited our time there and was a real pain to put up and lockup everything we did not want renters to use. Also we are clean freaks so even though the company that managed it for us had it cleaned we would clean again before staying. We do not plan to rent it again unless finances require it which thankfully does not appear to be a likely case. Vacation rentals are a good option for the right property if it works into your schedules and plans well but I would not buy and plan to rent in order to afford the home. It would be much better to just rent someone else's when you want to go.

If you want to have a special place to get away from and know you can spend a good bit of time there and do not mind house work then a vacation home is probably for you as it was for us but it is definitely not for everybody. We have several friends that have second homes and after a couple of years got disappointed with them since they could not spend enough time to justify having them. We are able to spend the time there and still travel other places. If you cannot do that then most likely you will not like a second home. YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

In case anyone missed it, we have had at least one thread on this subject of 2 homes in the past.

http://www.early-retirement.org/for...-live-in-2-places-after-retirement-41535.html

About having a secondary home, it might be because it provides us with activities that are not available at the first home, be it boating, swimming, hiking, etc..., while the main home allows close access to shopping, health care, etc... It might be difficult to find a place that satisfies both demands.

Regarding the cost of the second home, it is not just the ongoing cost of ownership, but one must also not forget the opportunity cost of the capital being tied down in the house value. My point is that people who use their 2nd home infrequently and think of it as an investment may be disappointed at the return.

 

[NW-Bound]

i'm starting to think that a pre-cut cabin package might be the ticket for my DW and I..... just need to brush up my carpentry skills and bribe some friends with beer and food to give us a hand.

A bit of research on the ol' internet suggests and a cabin package for a nice looking 1400 sq. ft cottage can be had for $60000 to $70000. Of course, this doesn't include foundation work, electrical, plumbing, drywall etc.

I have seen ads and even models of similarly log homes in my area. Yes, that price is just a come-on, until you read the fine print.

I often wonder if I might just be happy with one of the followings if I were a single geezer

Tumbleweed Tiny House Company

Of course, DW would not have any problem if we get one of the following unconventional Deltec houses, if we can get a lot with a view in the Puget Sound

Hurricane Resistant Prefab Round House, Prefab Green Dome Kits

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Paquette,

I am just trying to not have to live in a piano crate when I can't work anymore. 'Second house' ain't in the picture.

 

[kowski]

Tried the two home thing 5 yrs. ago. Found it was way to much work for the pleasure derived. We find our travel trailer to be a much more workable option. Both financially and time consumption.

 

[M Paquette]

Paquette,

I am just trying to not have to live in a piano crate when I can't work anymore. 'Second house' ain't in the picture.

I can't help myself. Just an upscale spendthrift, I suppose.

 

[haha]

That's a step down from the dust bowl days. Isn't it great to be a rich American?

Ha

 

[tryan]

This thread got me curious about what the lake house is costing us. Soo, the costs below are costs for 1 year (from MS money):

advertising: 758
Association Dues: 1494
insurance: 1363
mortgage payment: 14461
management/cleaning: 2101
Property Taxes: 7734
rent: -33524
repairs: 2985
Utilities: 5246
Hotel Tax: 2004

Total: 4622

Surprized me a little that we took in over 30k in rents. Also can't remember 3k in "repairs" since the house is only a few years old. Oh, the geothermal died last winter ... never mind.

 

[RonBoyd]

This thread got me curious about what the lake house is costing us. Soo, the costs below are costs for 1 year (from MS money):

advertising 758
Association Dues 1494
insurance 1363
mortgage payment 14461
management/cleaning 2101
Property Taxes 7734
rent -33524
repairs 2985
Utilities 5246
Hotel Tax 2004

Total: 4622

This might help with the formatting:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f32/tables-in-posts-46405.html

"Hotel Tax"? Yeah, how creative.

 

[NW-Bound]

You should add to that the dividends your house value would have returned if you invest it in Wellesley.

Oops. Do not look at the total return of Wellesley during 2008. But then, do not look at the drop in value of the house in this housing bust either.

I guess the purchase of a second home is like a crime of passion. No point in rationalizing it. Just admit that it is an act of love.

Can we talk about depreciation of RVs and motorcycles now?

 

[tryan]

Yeah, the Hotel Tax is what the state gets for any stay less than 30 days (billed to the renter). Management/cleaning is also paid by the renter.

Happy to say I would get my building and land costs back in a sale (even at todays prices). Not sure about recooping a few years of negative cashflow thou. Hoping not to test the market any time soon (hence the rental income).

 

[calmloki]

Ya know, you don't have to go all crazy on a second home - if you are in the area you could maybe pick up a little honey of a deal at Cullman's:

YouTube - Painfully Honest and Epic Mobile Home Commercial

Or don't.

 

[ScottFromUtah]

At one point we had two vacation homes--a home in St. George, Utah and a cabin in the northern Utah mountains. I loved the cabin; DW did not. She's not a runner, hiker, or mountain biker, and she wanted Internet and telephone, which the cabin could not get (not even cell phone reception). Our children (with our grandchildren) didn't use the cabin much either, because they enjoyed the home in St. George more, which they use constantly.

So we sold the cabin--and haven't missed it for a minute. Cabins in the snowy mountains require a huge amount of maintenance and are difficulty to use during the winter. Many people, like DW and me, who dream about a cabin, end up selling it after a few years.

The home in St. George, however, has been a joy beyond measure.

Upside: We use it not only for our own enjoyment but we also let family and friends use it--sort of our way of showing our love to them. Five of our relatives (3 of them our own children) and their spouses went there for their honeymoon! We have family get-togethers there for many holidays. We take friends there for a weekend getaway. We love the scenery (many state and national parks nearby), the active lifestyle that the town supports (our family members regularly run the St. George Marathon and other road races), and the weather is wonderful. Mostly, our children like to go there because of the swimming pools (one indoor and one outdoor) at the clubhouse.

Downside: It is expensive.

 

[Kroeran]

never tempted to ask relatives and friends contribute to expenses, when they are using the place in your absence?

 

[JOHNNIE36]

We're in that quandry right now. Sold our nice house three years ago for a great profit and bought a manufactured home for less than half the sales price of of that one. We've been thinking about building a new home in the $300K range but have second thoughts about that. What we're also thinking about is buying a "summer" home up in the mountains of Georgia or NC and have some place to go to get away from the FL heat in the summer. We could keep what we have and get something up "north" in the $175K range. We are torn. Just can't make up our minds what to do. Anybody been through those concerns?

 

[ScottFromUtah]

never tempted to ask relatives and friends contribute to expenses, when they are using the place in your absence?

We talk about it--and will probably eventually do that--but for now things are working well. My sister, for example, bought a new TV for us and she always spends several hours deep cleaning when she goes down. When we took some friends down two years ago, they gave us about $100 in gift cards, which came in handy to resupply things at the vacation home. And now way are we going to charge our own kids, who are the biggest users besides us. After all, we bought the home with their inheritance.

 

[Kroeran]

We could keep what we have and get something up "north" in the $175K range. We are torn. Just can't make up our minds what to do. Anybody been through those concerns?

the Canadian tradition is to have the two places and snowbird it, often selling the city house and staying at the lake cottage for the summer. Health insurance tends to tie Canadians down from merging into one house down south, though this can be more of a psychological barrier than a real one. Yet to meet anyone who has done it. The heat of Florida summer and missing family and friends seems to drive Florida year-round Canadians back north for the summers.

This got me wondering where are the locations in the US with good climate year round? California? Some go to the mountains of Central America for year round good climate. I keep meeting people that are in the process of moving to San Miguel.

San Miguel de Allende - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

look at this chart for the weather pattern (wiki is wrong)

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/MXGO0501

I am attracted to the historic towns of Mexico, but the percieved lack of reliable institutional infrastructure and corruption always scares me off.