Would like to live in 2 places after retirement...

[NW-Bound]

Houses in the dry desert do not need maintenance like elsewhere. My place in the mountain is only 3 yr old, yet already needs exterior stain. Deck is already restained! It does not rain, nor snow much like elsewhere, but the usual clear sky and the high elevation mean intense sunlight.

I don't know about places where it rains dogs and cats, or has snow drift of 10 ft, but it seems worse than my high-country AZ place. Perhaps I should stick with what I know as an Arizonan.

 

[NW-Bound]

Yesterday I saw a Home Depot ad on TV. Some guy was learning to do something or other on his house. It reminded me of how I got into that stuff so fully when I was raising a family.

My thought was this is part of a nesting urge. I believe that men do this stuff to attract and hold women for the most part. If you no longer want a woman living in your house, not many men want a house, let alone the chores that come with it.

Two houses? Is that for two women? Or one woman who is so desirable that she can convince a guy to work twice as hard keeping twice as many houses from reverting to compost?

Life is such a mystery.

Ha

Very perceptive observation. I have thought that by myself, all I would need is one of those Tumbleweed houses. Will they let me put that on a premium lot in the Puget Sound?

 

[Amethyst]

Thanks, I am getting the benefit of many points of view here. Keep 'em coming! Thanks for any helpful web-site suggestions, too. I will look up that thread on condo's that NW-bound mentioned. No doubt, there are plenty of issues we never thought of. Seasonal furnished rentals seemed costly to us, but now I wonder if it would be a bargain compared with cost of owning. We thought about buying now, while prices are low, but what would we do with the property while I'm still working full time? Much to consider.

I agree about the inconvenience of traveling back and forth. Our idea was to escape to the condo/second home in December, and not come back till April 1st.

Unclemick, it must be great to have relatives who can be "imposed on" as you put it. How clever of you to have placed them strategically near places you want to visit

Amethyst

 

[unclemick]

Unclemick, it must be great to have relatives who can be "imposed on" as you put it. How clever of you to have placed them strategically near places you want to visit

Amethyst

Yep - God Bless the US Military and all her ships at sea. No Alaska or Hawaii yet - maybe I should send the Pentagon a post card.

heh heh heh heh heh heh -

 

[growing_older]

Some of these responses make me think having two places would be a great bother, but I know my parents, my sister, my grandmother, two aunts and uncles, all maintain two houses in retirement and don't seem to have any problems with it. All are in different states. One is a kind of home base where they used to work and raise their family, so have lots of contacts there. The other is either a summer or winter home, where they love to be in that season and are putting down roots and building friendships. Most of them have talked about making the second house the ultimate retirement house, but none of them has ever pulled up stakes in the original homestead and done that. They just move back and forth throughout the year.

On the other hand, none of them has said they had problems with keeping two places up. They've used a variety of methods - kids living there part-time in off season, asking neighbors to watch the place, hiring a once in a while handyman to look in, using HOA services to maintain the place; but none of them had a problem with it.

 

[Meadbh]

I have two places, but the vacation one is a fractional ownership. It's hassle free and cost effective; the only disadvantage is that I have a use schedule.

 

[FIREd]

I lived most of my life halfway between 2 residences, one home for the week days and one for the week-ends / holidays. I see no problem with it. Actually, now that I have only one home, I do miss it. In retirement I am definitely planning on having 2 homes (ideally 2 low-maintenance condos) and alternate between the two every six months or so.

 

[Koolau]

Amethyst

My original (circa 1984 or so) plan was to live 6+ months or so in Hawaii (with HI state residence) and the other 6- months back at the old homestead in the midwest. HI exempts SS and Pension income from state tax. By the time we moved to HI in late '07 we planned to spend, maybe 3 summer months in MW.

Turned out we spent a couple of months in MW for a wedding and to clear out more of our old lives from the homestead. We're keeping our options open in case we decide we don't want to live out our lives in HI, but since we're leaning that way, it seems prudent to get rid of the place in MW. We plan to make that decision within a year.

It's much less practical than I thought to travel back and forth. It's not just the cost of travel or even the cost of keeping up two places. The shear hassle of travel is daunting. It's essentially an 18-hour day of hard traveling (9 hours in the air plus security and layover time plus airport to destination travel.) We've thought about breaking up the trip with a stop in, say CA, but that just adds to the hassles (find hotel, get there, unpack, repack, etc., etc.)

Travel by car (for you - not us, heh, heh) might be even worse.

Right now, we have a pretty sweet deal with the homestead. Cost is relatively low and we have fairly constant monitoring by family that we left behind. But I can see the costs going up and the straining of family bonds at some point in the future.

I'm beginning to think, that for us, we need to pick a spot and then stay put. Visits will then be just that - and not living in two places. I think the best advise you've received is to rent for a while in the "new" location(s?) you're thinking about. That didn't apply to us 'cause we've visited HI over a dozen times previously and already purchased a place and rented it out in the interim.

Honestly, right now at least, the only reason I ever want to return to MW is for family and friends. It doesn't sound like that is your consideration at all (maybe I misread). It sounds like you want two rather distinctly different sets of scenery and climate. We just wanted to keep one toe in our old lives.

Best of luck with your decision. Whatever it is, you will find a way to work it out. And don't forget: YMMV

 

[Amethyst]

Haha wrote, My thought was this [home acquisition and improvement] is part of a nesting urge. I believe that men do this stuff to attract and hold women for the most part. If you no longer want a woman living in your house, not many men want a house, let alone the chores that come with it.

I considered moving this to "Other," but decided it has a bearing on "Hi, I am." (Moderators, I defer to your judgment).

I asked my husband for his opinion on Haha's statement, while we were out shopping today for a new kitchen faucet He suspects it may be true of many men (and women) who live alone.

However, one of the things that brought us together is we're confirmed "nesters." Each of us was of that mind-set before we met each other. A nice home, containing beautiful things, set on an attractive property, is very important to us and we each tried to achieve that, to the best of our individual ability, when we were on our own. As a couple, we have always LBOM about some things (cars, electronic toys, entertainment, travel - all minimal), so we can live a bit AOM in regards to the home. Or home(s), if we can swing it!

True, there is a lot of work, much of it hard and dirty, involved in keeping up a house and sizeable property. Neither of us could manage it alone, and our LBOM mindset doesn't allow us to pay someone else to do housecleaning and yardwork. Alone, we'd each still want to live in a nice place but it would be smaller.

(Then again, there is that recurring fantasy about us living in a cave, with piles of animal skins on the floor and a big rock rolled against the door...but wait a minute, that belongs in another "forum" altogether )

 

[mb]

Watching my sister, who lives in two places, I see it as very inefficient and bothersome to live in two places. Besides the moving back and forth expenses, you have to purchase and maintain two of everything (or at least two of most things). Two sets of furniture, two sets of kitchen stuff, etc. Then you have twice as much home maintenance. Two phone companies, water companies, cable companies, garbage companies. You're always turning on or off service or paying for service you don't use. You've got stuff in the fridge that goes bad.

There are other things I'd rather spend my money on.

But you live in Cali.

There is a lot more incentive to do this if you are not on the west coast.

 

[freebird5825]

I can't picture assuming the costs of two homes. I'll just borrow someone else's 2nd home for a little while. Maybe yours!
My plan is to continue to use the NY home (all paid for) for 3/4 of the year, then escape during the colder months (Dec-Mar) to somewhere warmer on a weekly or monthly rental basis. Our weather without snow is actually quite enjoyable, low humidity, cool nights, no hurricanes or droughts. There are a lot of weather related and critter (2, 4 and 6 legged ) problems we don't have to deal with here out in East Nowhere, NY. A lot of people dream of a retirement home in the country away from all the hustle and bustle. I already have that.

 

[NW-Bound]

... one of the things that brought us together is we're confirmed "nesters." Each of us was of that mind-set before we met each other. A nice home, containing beautiful things, set on an attractive property, is very important to us and we each tried to achieve that, to the best of our individual ability, when we were on our own.
...

My wife and I are both homebodies (and yet we both love to travel). Still, my concept of a "nice home" without my wife is quite a bit different than our joint idea. I think that without me, she would also downgrade, but certainly not to the rustic level of mine.

I am actually the one who pushed for the 2nd home, wanting to buy it in the Puget Sound to get away from the low-desert AZ summer. My wife talked me out of such a remote 2nd home, and we settled for our current mountain home. She was correct that our then situation with me still working and the children attending in-state college and staying at home would not allow us to spend much time in our 2nd home.

The 2nd home isn't just for her. It is for us. But without her, I would be OK with a Tumbleweed house.

 

[Brat]

I have noticed that when a couple buys a retirement residence and the husband dies most wives sell the place and move near family. Maybe it would be wiser to plan on renting in retirement if you are moving away from family.

 

[Amethyst]

If I am alone, I'll still love spring/summer/fall and hate winter, and will still want to live in 2 places. Seasonal renting does sound less risky than owning, though. Lots to investigate....

What does duck bjorn mean? Is it something to eat?

 

[haha]

If I am alone, I'll still love spring/summer/fall and hate winter, and will still want to live in 2 places. Seasonal renting does sound less risky than owning, though. Lots to investigate....

What does duck bjorn mean? Is it something to eat?

Most of the time it wouldn't matter much. But if a person is suddenly alone and wants to move, if only to be in a more populated area, a real estate slowdown like today can be a real difficulty. You might be nailed to the spot, and unhappy. My brother lost his wife, and in spite of having a nice home in a nice neighborhood, he wants to move. There are too many memeories in the home that he shared with his wife; and he needs an area where there are more single people.

I used to live in an area with a lot of affluent retired people. The house turnover was high, often but not only because one partner got sick, became incapacitated, or died. This fairly small community supported a throng of realtors.

Ha

 

[Ronstar]

I bought our condo for 2 reasons - an escape and as a balance to our investments. Its worked out ok for both. I can not stand to be cooped up indoors in Midwestern winters and an Az condo gives me time to spend hiking/biking during the winter. Plus the value of my condo has not depreciated anywhere close to what my portfolio has. Our condo carrying costs for 2008 were $8185. I understand that I could take those $ and just rent a place, but I'm happy with the purchase so far. I may change my mind and sell it when I get old and travel becomes difficult.

 

[Brat]

The decision to buy or rent is situation specific. Some condos have covenants that prevent renting. If I wanted a place in the sun in retirement I might buy a condo/small home in my family community which I could rent out and rent a home in a sunny community. If my sunny situation doesn't turn out to be as ideal as I dreamed it would be easy to move on or move back.

 

[NW-Bound]

Az condo gives me time to spend hiking/biking during the winter. Plus the value of my condo has not depreciated anywhere close to what my portfolio has. Our condo carrying costs for 2008 were $8185. I understand that I could take those $ and just rent a place, but I'm happy with the purchase so far. I may change my mind and sell it when I get old and travel becomes difficult.

Despite my frequent lament about the AZ summer heat, right now it is just beautiful. I just came back from a walk. It's nice and cool at 65deg.

If you have the dough to park it in a condo, the annual expense of $8K is not too bad in my view. I do not include my houses in the portfolio, but I can see how one can rationalize the 2nd home condo purchase as part of the portfolio, because you can sell and "convert it to food" if you need to.

If you hold it for enjoyment for 10-15 years, and don't expect to make a killing, it's not a bad way to go. In fact, buying at the right time, you may recoup some of the annual cost when selling, if not make some profits. If you really like the locality, want to return year after year, it's the way to go, in my opinion.

Comparing owning to renting, I think it is like staying in a hotel vs in an RV. Some people like a sense of permanency, of sleeping in their own bed every night. Renting to test the water is always prudent of course.

Though the OP talks about staying on the Eastern seaboard, because meadh talked about fractional ownerships I would second that as an option.

Recently, visiting Victoria BC, we stayed at the Westin Bear Mountain. This resort also has fractional ownership condos. As Victoria, and really all of the island, is such a nice place, I found the fractional ownership an intriguing idea for US residents of the SouthWest to seek refuge from the summer heat. Unfortunately, we did not have time to talk to the sales office to see how this fractional ownership works, such as how many weeks one has, and if the time slot is fixed from year to year.

And by the way, I wouldn't mind living in Victoria year round, since the winter normal low is only around freezing. Fractional ownership works better for US citizens, since they kick you out every 6 months anyway. We did look at the window postings at an RE sales office in Sidney, and found that house prices weren't bad compared to places like SanDiego, and are in Canadian dollars yet.

 

[Brat]

If fractional ownership is an option be sure to check out re-sales. Years ago several families I knew in Portland went together on a home in central Oregon, one of those 'quarter house' arrangements. As one of the co-owners was an attorney I am sure they dotted all the i's and crossed all t's.

I agree, Victoria is hard to beat in the summer. My parents would talk of Victoria snow birds who migrated to HNL every winter. Cofax is attracting a lot of mainland Canadians as an affordable, temperate, retirement location.

 

[Amethyst]

We have experienced winters in southern Florida, and thought they were paradise (with too much traffic). We feel like we have a pretty good handle on how much we'd like Florida. Not sure about SC, as we have never been there. Can anyone venture an opinion on how retiree-friendly that state may be? Please use your own definitions of "retiree-friendliness," since I get a lot of benefit from other people's points of view.

By the way, it's interesting to hear from the Pacific Northwest folks. Although I've never been to that region, I know people who have, and their descriptions of the summers make my mouth water. I love greenery and scenery.

Returning to work tomorrow will limit my visits to this forum to weekends and maybe evenings, but I have already learned a lot.

Amethyst

 

[Meadbh]

If fractional ownership is an option be sure to check out re-sales. Years ago several families I knew in Portland went together on a home in central Oregon, one of those 'quarter house' arrangements. As one of the co-owners was an attorney I am sure they dotted all the i's and crossed all t's.

I agree, Victoria is hard to beat in the summer. My parents would talk of Victoria snow birds who migrated to HNL every winter. Cofax is attracting a lot of mainland Canadians as an affordable, temperate, retirement location.

In 2007, Canadian Business rated Victoria as the best place in Canada to retire and the second best place to live overall.

Canada's best places to live | Lists | MoneySense | Canadian Business Online

This has been a crazy winter and Victoria has been hammered with snow!

Also, property in Victoria is expensive by Canadian standards, though the exchange rate currently favours Americans. British Columbia has had a disproportionate escalation in property prices over the past number of years (a bubble really) and is now declining. Here's a set of charts that are updated monthly. While Victoria is not included, the best proxy for Victoria prices would be Vancouver, which has had a wild spree of speculative condo overbuilding.

Real Estate Price Charts ~ Canadian Housing Price Charts and Real Estate Valuator Blog

With regard to fractional ownership, what an ER needs is the ability to use the property for several months at a time. A 50% share with continuous ownership for 6 months would be ideal. Some schedules are set up so that each owner has a chunk of each season, which means that, to get a month at a time, you would need to buy a 1/3 share. Those schedules are more suited to use as a vacation property, which is what I have. Also bear in mind that there is a price markup in fractional properties, because it's a lot more hassle to sell 6 pieces than to sell one.

Radical idea: Board members form a syndicate and purchase a whole property, than apportioning time by mutual agreement.

 

[NW-Bound]

In 2007, Canadian Business rated Victoria as the best place in Canada to retire and the second best place to live overall.

Didn't surprise me one bit.

I like the Saanich Peninsula a lot for its genteel feel and so relaxing atmosphere. I chatted with some locals, thinking they were American tourists. They were super friendly. We got lost driving around on a narrow country road, and stopped by the shoulder to consult our map and GPS. A man pulled up, stopped side-by-side with our car, and asked to offer help (and I thought it was going to be a stickup). Victoria downtown area was among the cleanest I have seen, although Vancouver wasn't bad for such a crowded city.

And by the way, we were there on Labor Day 2008, and the crowd wasn't what we expected. That told me about the state of the US and Canadian economies.

While Victoria is not included, the best proxy for Victoria prices would be Vancouver, which has had a wild spree of speculative condo overbuilding.

Out of curiosity, I also picked up some RE pamplets in Vancouver, and found prices to be EXPENSIVE, on the level of San Francisco, while Victoria was not.

Now, I remembered being perplexed by the significantly lower (but not cheap) prices in Victoria, and wonder why it should not be higher, being so close to Vancouver as a market for retirees. My theory is that retirement havens near a metropolis should be expensive, due to attractiveness to people who do not want to leave the area where they grew up and worked in. Think LA and Palm Springs. Retirement havens in AZ high country have held up prices well compared to Phoenix, for example.

With regard to fractional ownership, what an ER needs is the ability to use the property for several months at a time. A 50% share with continuous ownership for 6 months would be ideal. Some schedules are set up so that each owner has a chunk of each season, which means that, to get a month at a time, you would need to buy a 1/3 share. Those schedules are more suited to use as a vacation property, which is what I have. Also bear in mind that there is a price markup in fractional properties, because it's a lot more hassle to sell 6 pieces than to sell one.

Radical idea: Board members form a syndicate and purchase a whole property, than apportioning time by mutual agreement.

Ah! I would like the 6-month summer please, if it costs the same.

 

[Brat]

When I was searching for a residence for my brother I found fractional ownership homes in HI. One advantage of HI is that all months are 'high' season.

 

[travelover]

When I was searching for a residence for my brother I found fractional ownership homes in HI. One advantage of HI is that all months are 'high' season.

Yea, but it is a hellava drive.

 

[45th Birthday]

We have had a second house for 10 years (8 of them pre-FIRE). Our primary home is in the midwest and the second home is 1,100 miles away in New England. We use the second home for ten weeks during the summer and one long weekend in the fall. We have no desire to "retire" to either place full time after the kids are gone.

Wife and kids have always traveled back and forth once during the summer. I used to commute most weeks but now we all travel together. Travel has never been a burden, although we cannot suddenly decide to go there for a long weekend.

We have never had a problem with maintenance, emergencies, etc., although the house was only five years old when we bought it. We have a caretaker who visits once a week and takes care of minor repairs.

Financially, not reflecting reduced costs at the primary home while we occupy the secondary one, we could sell the second house today at a depressed price and make about $175,000 (today's value of $1,750,000) after all expenses (interest, taxes, insurance, maintenance, travel, repairs, etc.). Even though the market is terrible now, there has been tremendous appreciation. Two years ago, the $175,000 number would have been $675,000.