Are we getting soaked on shower quotes?

[freedomatlast]

Here's another real life example for comparison purposes:
On an 1125 square foot ranch:
- In every room, all walls, ceilings, and baseboards patched, primed and painted including closets.
- New Luxury Vinyl padding and flooring installed in every room with 1/4" round molding added. New baseboard and 1/4 round added in kitchen.
- Kitchen cabinets refaced, new Corian counter and new tile backsplash
- Previous water damage repaired on kitchen ceiling and repainted
- Bathroom remodel included old tile removal throughout entire bathroom, new floor, new wainscoting (the real wood, not the Home Depot brown back board junk) , new tile around tub and shower, new Moen shower fixture added, new vanity, new faucet and new light fixture.

Grand total for all of the above was $13,773 which included all materials and labor.

Quotes ranged from $12,000 to $48,750. I used the $12,000 quote but we added a few things that weren't in the original quote so that's why the total was $13,773. Also, most were booked out several months.

New electrical panel was also installed upgrading from multiple 60 AMP fuse panels to 100 AMP breaker panel. Quotes for that were from $985 to $2900. The guy that did it for $985 was the guy I used twice in the past that does great work. Again this included all material, new panel (Square D), breakers, inspection and a few other incidentals.

The people I selected to do the jobs were small independent business people, not the large companies that advertise on TV that employ a staff of salespeople and drive around in brand new $80,000 trucks. The guys that I talked to that gave me the quote were the same people that actually did all the work. They were great about providing periodic updates, asking questions, and offering suggestions.

 

[JoeWras]

A $1000 for a small breaker panel replacement is a good deal.

 

[jrendt]

I've done 2 shower enclosures. For the 1st one I just put in a 3 piece fiberglass insert. You tear out the old shower, put the 3 pieces together with caulk and screws and slide it in. I did greenboard and tile from the top of the enclosure to the ceiling ( you can buy fiberglass top pieces as well). I did have a plumber install a new valve which had to be moved to line up with the new liner. I have installed shower valves since then; it's not that hard.
You can get a fiberglass shower insert to less than $2500, maybe cheaper if you want a crappy one. You will need to move the drain I suspect, so maybe $800 for that. Depending what type of flooring you have in the bathroom, you may not be able to do the job with out messing it up. If you do, you could replace it with luxury vinyl a couple hundred dollars.
Good luck.

 

[zinger1457]

I think one of the main reasons these smaller jobs come in so high, at least this applies to my area, is that the contractors are plenty busy with bigger jobs and don't need the work, so they put in a high bid not even caring if they get it or not. If they get a customer that bites then they'll squeeze the job into their schedule.
Sure, there are usually some parts of a job that require expertise (plumber, electrician) but even the contractor you hire will likely have to sub that work out, at least you hope they do. This type of work isn't brain surgery, I've done two bath remodels with just basic skills. I did hire an electrician to wire the electrical panel for a new circuit for a whirlpool tub and a plumber to replace a main shutoff valve. The biggest difference is probably time to complete the job, if the contractor says 2-3 days, plan on a couple weeks if you do it yourself. Plus, you'll be rewarded with the satisfaction of having done it yourself every time you walk into the room.

 

[mrstop]

Small, independent contractors will often be much more affordable than larger outfits. The larger outfits will often have more overhead to cover and work on higher margins. Many small outfits don't have the overhead burden. Also, they tend to underpay themselves significantly as they look at it as a job and live hand to mouth.


Regardless, not every contractor approaches the job in the same way. It's important to understand how the contractor is performing the job and try to compare apples to apples. For the shower, are they just throwing up some "greenboard" and setting the tile with mastic? Both are a no-no. Any exposed deficiencies need corrected. The framing needs plumbed and made flat. Plumbing needs to be done. A proper substrate needs installed. A properly sloped pan needs to be in place. Everything needs waterproofed (Tile and grout is not waterproof). The shower needs flood tested. The tile needs laid out properly to look good. The tile needs set properly to avoid any "lippage" and have 95% or better mortar coverage. Corners need to be caulked correctly. If there are niches, accents, complicated layouts it's even more tricky.

 

[mrstop]

Here's another real life example for comparison purposes:
On an 1125 square foot ranch:
- In every room, all walls, ceilings, and baseboards patched, primed and painted including closets.
- New Luxury Vinyl padding and flooring installed in every room with 1/4" round molding added. New baseboard and 1/4 round added in kitchen.
- Kitchen cabinets refaced, new Corian counter and new tile backsplash
- Previous water damage repaired on kitchen ceiling and repainted
- Bathroom remodel included old tile removal throughout entire bathroom, new floor, new wainscoting (the real wood, not the Home Depot brown back board junk) , new tile around tub and shower, new Moen shower fixture added, new vanity, new faucet and new light fixture.

Grand total for all of the above was $13,773 which included all materials and labor.

Quotes ranged from $12,000 to $48,750. I used the $12,000 quote but we added a few things that weren't in the original quote so that's why the total was $13,773. Also, most were booked out several months.

New electrical panel was also installed upgrading from multiple 60 AMP fuse panels to 100 AMP breaker panel. Quotes for that were from $985 to $2900. The guy that did it for $985 was the guy I used twice in the past that does great work. Again this included all material, new panel (Square D), breakers, inspection and a few other incidentals.

The people I selected to do the jobs were small independent business people, not the large companies that advertise on TV that employ a staff of salespeople and drive around in brand new $80,000 trucks. The guys that I talked to that gave me the quote were the same people that actually did all the work. They were great about providing periodic updates, asking questions, and offering suggestions.

You got a steal. I don't think I can buy materials for that amount of money.

 

[Koolau]

I agree @JoeWras. I'm a remodeling contractor who's a corporate refuge. As you mention, there is a ton of risk in the trades both financial and physical. Many tradespeople don't get any perks like vacation or retirement. If you don't work, generally you don't get paid.


Like any business, there are large costs involved just beyond the basic labor and materials to complete a job. I have about $20,000 in tools currently. I need to replace, maintain and upgrade those on a continual basis. I have to pay business and health insurance. I have to pay to come look at your job and give you an estimate. I have to pay to do bookkeeping and accounting. I have to pay to keep up with best practices and make sure the job is high quality and trouble-free. I have to market the business. I have to make sure I remain financially solvent so that, if there is a problem, I'll be around to take care of it. If I'm lucky, I might be able to save enough to take a vacation.


Those of you who get a paycheck would be surprised how much your company is paying for you, or maybe even billing for you. If you are making $100,000 a year, that is roughly $50/hr in your pocket gross. You are, in reality, with taxes benefits, overhead, etc. costing the company $120-$150/hr or more. It's the same in the trades and that is why the hourly rate is high.



Many of you wouldn't work for $10-$20 an hour, there is no reason why a trades person shouldn't be fairly compensated with a living wage. While these people "work with their hands," some are the among the smartest I have ever met or worked with. The amount of knowledge required to properly work on a home is staggering.

Mike Rowe couldn't have said it better! Love his stuff. He understands.

 

[skyking1]

You can get one of our plumbers for $120 which is a bargain these days.
That is what I based that thumbnail on, 2 guys for 2 days = 4K

 

[mrstop]

Mike Rowe couldn't have said it better! Love his stuff. He understands.

Safety third!


Honestly, it's sad how poorly many in the trades are compensated.

 

[mrstop]

You can get one of our plumbers for $120 which is a bargain these days.
That is what I based that thumbnail on, 2 guys for 2 days = 4K

Yep. That's about what some of mine are running depending on scope for a full bath remodel. Makes me cheap in comparison lol.

 

[Hermit]

I am in the process of tiling my shower. I bought a Kohler cast iron shower pan. After I got it in, my plumber told me it was so warped that it would never sit flat. I swapped it out for another with less of a warp so it would sit on the feet. I have since noticed that the finish is so thin I can see the cast iron through it in one area. Those cast iron parts are very heavy to mess with and it is a long day's drive to replace it. I am putting Schluter Kerdi fabric on my walls before tile. The Kerdi material provides a water proof surface behind whatever your finished surface might be. That seems like a good investment to me and anybody in the bath refinishing business should be familiar with it.

 

[skyking1]

I used a kerdi foam 4x4 pan and the kerdi wall system in our walk in shower. It is good stuff.
Here's a tip for you.
When you are working the corner, think about keeping that interior corner square. What happens is as you lap the corner with the two layers and seal it up, it ends up no longer square inside and it is not as nice to tile. I will do what I can on the next job to either undercut the backer to allow for that, or size out the wall in such a manner as to minimize the problem.
By undercut I mean taper it like the factory edge on sheetrock that allows for the tape and mud.

 

[JJpop]

I know some of this might be location specific but wow we are kinda shocked at the quotes we have gotten so far. Seems to me to be a simple replacement. Remove the current one piece 5' tub shower combo, and add some green board type drywall and add a new shower pan and 3 wall panels and perhaps glass door to make a simple walk in shower. My thinking was that it should be well under 10k....wrong. The first quote was around 14K which seemed really high. So when talking to the next company over the phone I specifically said we were shocked at a quote we received at over 10K and that I didn't want to waste anyone's time if the quote was going to be over around 10K. He replied their rate would be way lower because they were a local family owned business and low advertising cost unlike the big corps. Well their guy came out and quoted 15K!!!

So the search continues. Are these end of year prices over the top? Do I need to adjust my thinking that under 10k for simple replacement is reasonable in 2022?

Watched some videos and seems like this could be something to take on yourself? Has anyone here done that?

I have found unbelievable price differences between contractors.

I use to own a small business where we did installations and it was amazing to see what some people charged using the exact same materials.

One time I gave a guy a quote and he accused me of being dishonest because I was at 2550 and 3 other local vendors were all between 4500 and 5K.
He agreed to have us do the job but only if I showed him the invoices of the materials to guarantee him we were installing first quality goods.

Granted I was the cheap, but good, you are lucky someone referred me to you guy, but some contractors get away with ridiculous profits.

 

[Music Lover]

I was sort of forced to learn how to DIY when I was young because I made so little money. Then I found that I liked it and did a decent job and over the years my skillset expanded. Now when I hear some of the numbers thrown around it boggles my mind and I'm glad that I can do a lot of it myself.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

Thanks for all the replies. We are still researching options. One tile guy said he could probably do the job for around 9K depending on the materials we picked. Nothing firm yet. Just some emails and phone calls back and forth. He did mention he uses that kerdi tiling system that's been mentioned a few times. Did see some videos showing some issues showing up using the system. That makes me a little nervous. I still think I prefer the solid panels and shower pan to avoid potential leaks.

We just got a quote from a guy who came out and spent maybe 15 minutes here. It looked like he had just rolled out of bed unfortunately. He didn't bother to bring in any samples until asked. Not too impressed with his presentation. His quote was around 6K. Unfortunately the pictures (attached) he provided looked like showers from 1990.
He did provide a list of references we could call.

 

[mrstop]

Thanks for all the replies. We are still researching options. One tile guy said he could probably do the job for around 9K depending on the materials we picked. Nothing firm yet. Just some emails and phone calls back and forth. He did mention he uses that kerdi tiling system that's been mentioned a few times. Did see some videos showing some issues showing up using the system. That makes me a little nervous. I still think I prefer the solid panels and shower pan to avoid potential leaks.

We just got a quote from a guy who came out and spent maybe 15 minutes here. It looked like he had just rolled out of bed unfortunately. He didn't bother to bring in any samples until asked. Not too impressed with his presentation. His quote was around 6K. Unfortunately the pictures (attached) he provided looked like showers from 1990.
He did provide a list of references we could call.View attachment 44566View attachment 44567

Those examples are all solid surface installs. Definitely a way to save money, but yes, it can look a bit dated and not fit the norm if you are located in a mid to high end neighborhood.


I have taken out tile showers and tubs 100+ years old without problems. I wouldn't hesitate to use tile if that's the look you are going for. Schluter is a good product. But like everything, it must be installed properly. I use other systems in my jobs out of preference. There are many ways to have a proper, waterproof substrate. But everything needs done right.



The key is finding a good, competent installer. Also, it needs to be someone you can live with for a period of time. I hate being the bearer of bad news when people come to me mid-project or after the fact and I tell them it needs ripped out and started over again.