Auto Service $ - Is It Just Me?

[Walt34]

Do most people really spend $595 on service without any idea what's included?

No, never. Like many I used to do all of my own maintenance but now I find I don't even want to bother with oil changes - the cost difference, if there is one, is not significant enough to matter any more.

 

[Texas Proud]

Just a note on believing what a mechanic says needs to be done...

DW told me to take the Explorer in before we went on a 3K mile trip.. it has 65K miles on it... was talking to the guy and he said 'the plugs are supposed to be changed at 60"... so I said, "OK, then change them"...

Well, after the trip with more time on my hands I looked it up and the book said they were good for 90K....

One of the things I liked about my Acura was that it would tell when the oil needed to be changed and when service needed to be done... one time when I took it in the guy asked me about doing something and how often... I said I only do what the car asks me to do and when it asks me... stopped from asking more...

 

[Lakewood90712]

If they are also actually changing the trans fluid with filter, brake fluid, power ster. fluid (na on elec steering) , spark plugs, that is not too far out of line. If they say "Inspect" the fluid , thats too much $

Remember, the Services salesman, I mean "Service adviser" absolutely is a commissioned salesperson, under intense pressure to get his/her commission % of the bill to make a living, in addition to pressure from the dealer to sell services. They can get canned just like anyone in sales for not meeting sales targets. It's an ugly part of the auto business , don't think it will ever change.

EDIT PS , I avoid the "Quick Lube type places" like the plague. Some may be ok, but my experience is outrageous scare tactics as sales tools and incompetence . At least with the dealer mechanic incompetence is rare.

 

[mike143]

Do most people really spend $595 on service without any idea what's included?

No.

Yes, just look at the daily decisions that the average person makes everyday, it's scary.

For both business and personal vehicles only go to dealership for warranty and advanced diagnostics. Any place that tries to sell you nitrogen in your tires is look out for their best interest in all matters.

 

[nwsteve]

EDIT PS , I avoid the "Quick Lube type places" like the plague. Some may be ok, but my experience is outrageous scare tactics as sales tools and incompetence . At least with the dealer mechanic incompetence is rare.

Well--uhm, you may give dealers too much credit. Of course, sometimes it hard to separate incompetence from indifference and/or revenue enhancement. For example, my RV (a Roadtrek) is built on a Chevy 3500 Express chassis so I go to Chevy dealer when they offer their lube and oil change specials. Only problem is that unless I make an issue at time of write-up, they conveniently neglect to lube the 12 zirk points. I got clued on this when rig came due of change when traveling cross-county. Ended in a truck maintenance place and mechanic told me that all my zirks were dry. Uhm, funny since all the rig's service had been done on time at one dealer.
Nwsteve

 

[travelover]

Well--uhm, you may give dealers too much credit. Of course, sometimes it hard to separate incompetence from indifference and/or revenue enhancement............

Plus some dealers have separate oil change bays with unskilled laborers doing the [-]drain plug stripping [/-] oil changes.

 

[Texas Proud]

Plus some dealers have separate oil change bays with unskilled laborers doing the [-]drain plug stripping [/-] oil changes.

+1 Has happened to me a few times.... one time the guy did not even tighten the plug and I lost most of my oil... I was lucky that I noticed the pool of oil when I was backing out of the garage... it had not leaked enough for the stupid light to go on, but enough to ruin the engine...

Walmart did the stripping... and when they told me about it I just mentioned that they had done the last 5 oil changes on the vehicle and since this is the first time they have mentioned it they must have done it the previous time I was there.... they decided to fix the problem and not charge me....

 

[SteveNU]

I would never do the dealer recommended xx mile service. It includes all kinds of things that are not needed. Just do what the manufacturer recommends and call it a day.

 

[FUEGO]

It wasn't a complete list, it was just what the service rep could think of off the top of his head. When I took the car in today with 100K miles, I had summarized everything I expected to be done - based on the major services at 30K, 60K, and 90K (that I had consciously not had done at those intervals) from the manufacturers owners manual. We reviewed the list and they confirmed all of it would be done for $595.

Again, the question was: Do most people really spend $595 on service without any idea what's included? Some have answered, others maybe not...

And like others here, I was a passable shade tree mechanic in the 70's. I rebuilt carbs, replaced brake pads/rotors, water pumps, starters and all the trivial stuff. But there's nowhere near as much I'd even consider doing myself on a modern day car, even more so with two hybrids.

Gotcha. To answer your specific question, I would guess most customers at the dealership getting service would let them just do the scheduled service without asking for a detailed itemized description of all maintenance tasks that would take place. I suppose they would have some idea ("they're fixing car thingy's under the hood"), but beyond that, car knowledge seems pretty minimal among the general populace I've overheard at the dealership.

Once upon a time, I just wanted my almost new cars to be perfectly maintained. I would take them to the dealer and ask for the 30k maintenance service (or whatever was due). It was usually $250-300 or so (back in the early 2000's). I knew what the service manual suggested, but I never really inquired about what was being done specifically. And I am (was?) an engineer and attorney and not particularly wealthy.

Eventually I realized I needed to pay closer attention to what's required to maintain a car and how cars work in general. So I read "Auto repair for dummies" or something like that and started my car maintenance spreadsheet where I keep track of all routine maintenance and non-routine replacements and repairs. I would guess I'm an oddity in that regard and most people don't take such an intentional approach to auto maintenance or learning about auto maintenance. Just like most people don't spend much time learning about FIRE, investing, taxes, etc.

 

[travelover]

+1 Has happened to me a few times...............

Me, too. Once oil was way overfilled and second time, two gaskets on oil filter and spraying oil all over.

 

[Midpack]

I would never do the dealer recommended xx mile service. It includes all kinds of things that are not needed. Just do what the manufacturer recommends and call it a day.

Agreed, we've never done what dealer service recommends, in fact I consciously do less than even the manufacturer recommends (still padded IME). That's why at 100K miles I went for a little more - since I skipped most everything the manufacturer recommended at 30K, 60K and 90K...

It's clear most here (at least those who posted) are more conscious. OTOH judging by my local dealers inability to list the specific items included in complete service, most of the general populace doesn't know or care. Too bad.

In all fairness to my local fav dealer, now that I have the car back, they did everything I asked (all based on what I read in the manual) and no more, and no frivolous add-ons. They even deducted $ for one item they could not do...

Again, I was just very surprised that they weren't even prepared to list what was included in their service package.

 

[Moemg]

No , I would not pay $595 without a list and then I would take the list home & go over it with my SO and also check my maintenance book. Dealers are notorious upsellers especially to women in Florida .

 

[pb4uski]

I bring my vehicles to our local dealers - two different brands, hence two different dealers - but I am happy with but also skeptical of each dealer - for every other oil change and free annual state inspections. They inevitably do a multi-point inspection and think this or that should be replaced. I have a local guy who does my other oil changes and I usually ask him to check the vehicle out.

If they both mention that a particular repair needs to be made, then I figure it needs to be done and I have the local guy do it.

 

[jimbee]

Any place that tries to sell you nitrogen in your tires is look out for their best interest in all matters.

Correct, my tires work just fine with 80% nitrogen, 100% isn't needed.

 

[Midpack]

Correct, my tires work just fine with 80% nitrogen, 100% isn't needed.

Good one, I only run 78% myself...

 

[pb4uski]

The other thing that drives me crazy is tire places that want to replace valve stems that are not exhibiting any problems when you change tires (in our case seasonally or otherwise when they wear out) yet they don't generally recommend that people replace their valve stems every x months.

A number of years ago I had my winter changeover done at a place and they replaced the valve stems unilaterally without my authorization and I make a fuss and refused to pay for them. I now have AWD vehicles and don't do changeovers anymore and am still waiting to have a valve stem fail on me.

 

[Koolau]

Heh, heh, last time I set foot inside a dealer's "authorized" shop was for free warranty work on my last new car a '91. Since then, I have done everything through independent shops as needed or as specifically stated in the manufacturer's maintenance book that came with the car.

Since I now buy used, I usually do critical things (oil/filter changes, timing belt, transmissions flush, etc.) "by the book." Other stuff, I wait until it fails or is failing (belts, hoses, etc. - yes, you could get stranded, but I pay my INs. co $3/mo for road side service.) None of my 3 cars has a book value greater than a couple of thousand dollars (probably less.) So, when a guy told me I needed to overhaul my auto-trans, I just drove away. That was 30K ago. Still no real issues. He looked up the diagnostic for the blinking light and said I needed the trans repair. I looked it up on the net and (specifically for my year/model) it said that there was a momentary over-heat, due to a design flaw. I now know how to avoid that issue (don't use lower gears to brake on hills, heh, heh.) My point is that by driving an older car, you can play off replacement of the car vs a repair. If you guess wrong, the cost is about the same.

As far as air filters, spark plugs, electronics, etc., it becomes very apparent when these items need to be replaced. If you can't tell by the actual performance of the car, you can tell when the gas mileage drops off significantly. My best SWAG is that today's cars really never need the spark plugs changed. Using unleaded fuel and electronic ignition, spark plugs (even old, less than perfect ones) will either fire or they won't. You'll know the difference. (FWIW, my '99 honda has original plugs at almost 150K and mileage is same as when I purchased it used at 100K.) I will consider changing them if the mileage drops off. Otherwise, what is the point?

Just a minimal understanding of the way cars work is all most people need to know how to keep their cars running - IOW when to have it worked on. Go "by the book" or watch for things to fail (or look bad - eg., belts, hoses.)

More than ever, YMMV.

 

[pb4uski]

+1 Or as my ol' man used to say "If it ain't broke.... don't fix it."

The only exceptions for me are routine maintenance like oil changes and timing belts.

 

[Big_Hitter]

My best SWAG is that today's cars really never need the spark plugs changed. Using unleaded fuel and electronic ignition, spark plugs (even old, less than perfect ones) will either fire or they won't.

actually, it's the opposite on today's turbo cars - pushing the limits on a 2.0 liter wears out the plugs pretty fast - I used to have to change my cold iridium plus after 10K miles on my WRX

one thing I always do on my turbo cars is to make sure the plugs get changed at least every 60K

 

[H2ODude]

To answer the original question Midpack, No. We generally keep our cars til about 100k miles; we don't put more than about 10k on a year. During that time oil gets changed no more often than manual says, and I may have done a timing belt or two (well, a mechanic did). I used to sort of enjoy changing oil but no more. Same with brakes. Frankly, now you lift the hood and I'm lucky to identify the major parts. May not be fair to the next owner, but I've not been inclined to do coolant flushes last few decades even. If you're trying to get past 100k I'd recommend what the manual says give or take a few thousand miles on items, but I think something like a generic non specified "checkup" is about as bad as turning it over to a Quickie Lube and telling them to do whatever they think needs doing.

Once our cars get past warranty I look for a good local shop. Since retired, I even drive across town to near workplace just to use the guys I developed a relationship with. It's nice to know the folks that are going have their way with you.
PS: Re read this and autocorrect thinks Midpack should be Mudpack!

 

[W2R]

Without dwelling on prior service background (another thread), I dropped DW's Camry with 100K miles off for a more comprehensive/less routine service this morning. [...]
Do most people really spend $595 on service without any idea what's included?

No, never did that, but then I have never had a 100,000 mile servicing done either. It would take me thirty years or more to put 100,000 miles on a car because I don't drive very much. I don't keep cars that long.

I think you are right to be questioning the $595 charges.

 

[Koolau]

actually, it's the opposite on today's turbo cars - pushing the limits on a 2.0 liter wears out the plugs pretty fast - I used to have to change my cold iridium plus after 10K miles on my WRX

one thing I always do on my turbo cars is to make sure the plugs get changed at least every 60K

I'm sure your point is well taken. However, whenever I "flog the hamsters" in my Honda, the only thing that gets worn is the bearings on their little hamster wheel.

Turbo? What's that? Oh yeah. That's the thing that costs more as original-equipment than my car! Seriously, I love performance cars, but have given them up for economy and the fact that there's no place to use them in the Islands (with the possible exception of Saddleback Rd on the Big Island.)

Flog those turbocharged thoroughbreds once for me, Big Hitter! And remember, YMMV.

 

[jimbee]

Good one, I only run 78% myself...

Rounding error...

 

[Big_Hitter]

Flog those turbocharged thoroughbreds once for me, Big Hitter! And remember, YMMV.

always

 

[ERD50]

A ...That's why at 100K miles I went for a little more - since I skipped most everything the manufacturer recommended at 30K, 60K and 90K. ....

I'm curious what you skipped, if it was recc in the manual (or by 'mfg', did you mean 'dealer'?)?

I can see things like inspecting air filters and replace as needed, rather than by miles. But things like coolant, or trans oil changes, I would follow the book.

As others mentioned, I think you can wait on plugs until a problem is noted - I was told that the CEL will throw a 'misfire' code long before you can feel it. I don't know if that is true or not, but suspect it is. I'l test it though, before the next change...

Correct, my tires work just fine with 80% nitrogen, 100% isn't needed.

The other thing about the whole Nitrogen debate - if the tires actually did lose 'air' faster than 'pure' nitrogen, when you top it off, you are replacing the ~ 22% 'leaky gasses' with 78% nitrogen air, so the concentration of N would increase again. Pretty soon, you have 'pure' N (and the tire shops use the kind of systems that filter N from the air, and IIRC, is closer to 98% anyway).

And there is a downside - I had the oil change place (I found one that seems to be good, no high pressure sell, they've never made a mistake - I didn't like Jiffy-Lube, very high pressure up-sell) tell me they wouldn't check my air pressure, since I had 'green' caps, and wanted N (which they don;t do). I laughed, said N is a scam, and asked to please check and adjust air pressure.

So some people aren't getting their air pressure checked, and that's more important than the exact % of N (if important at all).

-ERD50