Banning the Bulb

[twaddle]

I want to talk about playing with mercury as a kid. I also did that and have casually wondered about effects.

And model airplane glue. And hexachlorophene. And probably a zillion other things. I always wondered if I would have been even smarter if I hadn't been exposed to all that stuff. Nah, not possible.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

Now what the hell am I going to put in my Lava Lamp?

And bye-bye Easy Bake Ovens!

 

[chinaco]

I do not have a problem with moving toward practices that will save energy.

I believe one of the main reasons people use incandescent bulbs today is because the cost of the bulb is cheaper than the alternative. That may change if production scales up.

But, absolute rules often have holes in them (unintended consequences). The old incandescent light will still have its place in certain applications.

 

[cantlogin]

You could make a silver dime shine and slippery with that mercury and then carry it around massaging with your fingers it all day! We really knew how to have fun.

 

[Danny]

Must EVERY thread be turned into a political one?

I think you made some political posts in this thread. What's your definition of political. Do I have to conform to the way you or Rustic want things done. Why can't you just let it go and ignore it or put me on ignore. What are you afraid of

Danny,
A classic way to turn a good post into a Political post. Most if not all of you items could have been said of the Clinton administration. So why didn't you just say

How Politicians change a light bulb!

Thanks for the compliment! I don't see how they would make sense or be funny for the Clinton Administration though.

This thread has a political/government undercurrent to it from the first post. I think you even made a post about not liking the government telling you what to do. So there is politics in this thread. You just don't like me mentioning the current administration in some jokes. Surely your skin's thick enough to handle minor stuff liike that. You can ignore it or ignore me, but I'm not going to censor myself to keep you happy.

 

[Martha]

Add me to the list of those who played with liquid mercury as a kid. It does make you wonder how we all lived beyond age 40...

And model airplane glue. And hexachlorophene. And probably a zillion other things. I always wondered if I would have been even smarter if I hadn't been exposed to all that stuff. Nah, not possible.

Can't mercury make you crazy? Ala the mad hatter from Alice in Wonderland.

No glue sniffing for me, except for mimeograph sheets.

 

[travelover]

I saw a program on TV talking about the dangers of mercury and they showed a room stripped to the floor joists to get rid of a drop of mercury. I wonder what happened to my shiny little ball of it? Come to think of it, we used to make our own lead fishing sinkers by remelting lead. Does this exposure explain all the grumpiness over CFLs?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

No glue sniffing for me, except for mimeograph sheets.

I can remember the models/crafts store refusing to sell me glue to build a model airplane without a note from my parents due to the scare about sniffing glue. I think I was 5.

But my aunts could still send me down to the store to buy them cigarettes.

 

[TromboneAl]

unplugging devices that are not in use. You don't need laws to do this.

I noticed a PG&E ad that said they were working with manufacturers to eliminate standby modes. This could make a difference if it really happens.

Can't mercury make you crazy? Ala the mad hatter from Alice in Wonderland.

That expression "Mad as a hatter" comes from the fact that the glue that hat manufacturers used at one point did cause dementia.

CFLs are cheap now. I also got 20 bulbs at 15 cents each at Costco. I'm sitting under three of them right now. So, no more talk about whether they make sense economically in brief usage locations. Even if they wear out sooner or last 80 years past my death, they are more economical.

 

[ERD50]

15 cents each? For the CFLs? Tell me more. - ERD50

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Whats the punchline for that old joke?

"We've established what you are, now we're just haggling over the price!"

 

[Rustic23]

Danny,
There are folks on this board that will use any subject to bash a chosen politician. I for one am against that. I read post for the information they contain and the interaction it provides with other posters. I am not interest in Bush bashing, Clinton bashing, Obama bashing, Republican bashing, Democrat bashing or any other form of ridicule based on ones politics. And, I don't appreciate those that place this type of post in the middle of otherwise non political threads.

While this thread could be political, I don't believe the OP said 'Look what the stupid Democratic Congress did to us now!' nor did they say 'Look what that idiot George signed'. Either of these would have started a clearly political thread and your attempt at humor would, IMHO, have been well withing bounds.

ERD started his post 'Now they have done it....'. He did not define any political party or person. The thread was aimed at his opinion that banning the bulb was a bad governmental decision. IMO that is not political. It is a discussion as to weather CFL's or incandescent bulbs should be used everywhere.

The country seems to be split 50/50 with regards to the policies of the two parties. You can bet that about half the people out there will take offense to a political post. So if your point is to offend those people in an attempt to get 'something' going, you may succeed. I, for one, am willing to say stop. No politics here! If you want to start your own thread 'Take this Bush' you will not see me raise an objection. If you want to put it into the middle of another thread, I will take objection, and if my comment keeps the thread from spiraling down into the political drain like many others do, I won't apologies!

This paragraph was going to show you how to turn your joke into a Clinton joke, but I won't. I would ask you to just look at each one of the eight items and see if they might fit. Did Clinton ever deny anything, did he bomb something that was not what he thougt it was, did he blame the previous administration? In fact this same joke could be rewritten, I suspect, for Reagan, Bush Senior, Carter, FDR, Truman, Nixon, Kenedy, and if I knew enough George Washington.

 

[Texas Proud]

Can't mercury make you crazy? Ala the mad hatter from Alice in Wonderland.

Ahhhhh, yes... that is where the term mad hatter came from... they used mercury...

 

[Danny]

Danny,
... I, for one, am willing to say stop. No politics here! If you want to start your own thread 'Take this Bush' you will not see me raise an objection. If you want to put it into the middle of another thread, I will take objection, and if my comment keeps the thread from spiraling down into the political drain like many others do, I won't apologies!

This paragraph was going to show you how to turn your joke into a Clinton joke, but I won't. I would ask you to just look at each one of the eight items and see if they might fit. Did Clinton ever deny anything, did he bomb something that was not what he thougt it was, did he blame the previous administration? In fact this same joke could be rewritten, I suspect, for Reagan, Bush Senior, Carter, FDR, Truman, Nixon, Kenedy, and if I knew enough George Washington.

So you and some other old farts are the arbitrators of good taste on the forum and now you want to lecture me how I should post. You appear to have adopted in your retirement the mantel of enforcer and protector for the forum. Let me remind you that you are entitled to your opinion and I mine. How you interpret my post maybe different from mine and others, you may find agreement with others. You and others can ignore my posts and put me on ignore if I upset your equilibrium. You can complain to the moderators or just let them on their own determine if I'm out of line, but I take offense at you trying to enforce your standards on me and limiting my expression.

 

[samclem]

. . . but I take offense at you trying to enforce your standards on me and limiting my expression.

People are so easily "offended" today. It used to take an insult against a man's honor to generate an "offended" atitude, now it just takes a little request for civility to generate an "offense." And, "my expression is being limited." Nobody is limiting your expression. But keep a' listening for the jackboots on the doorstep!

"Help--I'm being repressed!" (Today is Monty Python day on the ER Forum, BTW)
YouTube - HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED

 

[Rustic23]

WoW!

What a rude response. Yep, I had heard there was a lack of manors being taught to children today.

I did not call you names, I did not insult you personally, I did not lecture you on how you post. I pointed out that many on this board do not appreciate political post in the middle of non political threads. A long standing rule in many households is don't talk politics or religion with your guest. And, yes, if political jokes and comments are all you have to add to a thread, then I will gladly place your name on an ignore list. However, I would assume, since you have been posting here for several years, you have something worthwhile to contribute, so I would prefer not to.

 

[TromboneAl]

15 cents each? For the CFLs? Tell me more.

At Costco they had 10 packs of CFLs for $1.49 after electric company (PG&C) instant rebate. I bought two packs, one for 13 watt and one for 23 watt bulbs. One of the four that I've installed doesn't always come on, especially if it's 60 degrees in the room, but the light from these is fine.

 

[ERD50]

At Costco they had 10 packs of CFLs for $1.49 after electric company (PG&C) instant rebate. I bought two packs, one for 13 watt and one for 23 watt bulbs. One of the four that I've installed doesn't always come on, especially if it's 60 degrees in the room, but the light from these is fine.

Thanks T-Al, I'm interested in the rebate. What would they cost w/o the rebate? While the rebate appears to change the economics of it for the purchaser, if it is just shuffling money around, it will add to the overall cost.

Anyone know who actually 'pays' the rebate - and why?

-ERD50

 

[Martha]

You get the rebate from your power company. Power companies periodically offer these rebates. But the money has to come from somewhere so I suppose theoretically your power bills could go up along with everyone else's bill.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Some of the rebates are paid through federal grants. Most of them are well covered by the power company not having to build more power plants to manage peak loads.

So it might make your power bill cheaper by making the net equipment the power company needs to meet peak demands smaller, and their costs to generate less expensive.

So wow...maybe it costs the power company less, costs the consumer less, is better for the economy and the environment, and makes for less hassle for the end user.

Lets keep looking for the cloud hidden in this huge silver lining

 

[ERD50]

Some of the rebates are paid through federal grants. Most of them are well covered by the power company not having to build more power plants to manage peak loads.

So it might make your power bill cheaper by making the net equipment the power company needs to meet peak demands smaller, and their costs to generate less expensive.

So wow...maybe it costs the power company less, costs the consumer less, is better for the economy and the environment, and makes for less hassle for the end user.

Lets keep looking for the cloud hidden in this huge silver lining

*If* that is the case (it saves some specific electric company money), why would we need a federal law? Wouldn't the power companies set up their own incentives, and figure out which ones work best for their area?

My car mfg tells me I need to change the oil at X miles to keep my warranty in effect. In the long run, that preventive maintenance and responsibility saves everybody money too. Do we need Congress to pass laws on oil changing procedures? One size fits all? No thanks.

The 'silver lining' is that CFLs make sense for some applications. The 'cloud' is the one-size-fits-all mandate.


-ERD50

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

*If* that is the case (it saves some specific electric company money), why would we need a federal law? Wouldn't the power companies set up their own incentives, and figure out which ones work best for their area?

If that had worked, the people we elected to do the right thing for the country overall wouldnt have felt the need to put a law in place.

The 'cloud' is the one-size-fits-all mandate.

Its not a one-size-fits-all mandate. Its replacing one type of bulb with a superior technology that saves a lot of money and has no reasonable downside except for public mistrust and misinformation.

 

[ERD50]

CFB:

#1 - Show me an example.

#2 - misinformation? My excel spreadsheet tells me there isn't a reasonable payback to replace some of my closet lights. My power company does not provide a rebate. Where is the misinformation?

And I do use them in high use sockets, have for years. I am a fan of CFLs (where they make sense). I am NOT a fan of one-size-fits-all legislation.

Show me why I should replace the three 100W ILBs on my attic switch. They are used maybe 6 hours a year. Never replaced one (except the one I broke when a box hit it. Nice that I could replace it with a cheap-o ILB.

-ERD50

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Oh gosh ERD50, you must be right.

I hope you learned something in this exercise.

 

[ladelfina]

Got a nice $$$ Philips CFL for the kitchen and it failed after about a year.
Also had annoying buzzing as do some of the others we've purchased. That buzzing makes me borderline psychotic.

We put them where they make the most sense: hard-to-reach and outside locations and places where I like to leave the light on a lot (dim one over the stove to navigate kitchen in the pm). Everything gets turned off at bedtime.

We did put 2 in yard lights that are attached to motion sensors. They seem to work Ok with no ramp-up, or at least not enough to make a difference. The lower-wattage ones in the kitchen are quite dim when first turned on, and do annoy me. Encourages me to leave 'em on all the time, so how much that impacts the savings I can't say.

Outlawing is dumb. Taxation might be better to bring the costs up to par with the CFLs (as long as this $ goes to environmental cleanup and research).

I spent a bundle on an electrician to dismount a huge crystal chandelier that MIL didn't want anymore and put it back together installed in our DR. It's got those little-candle-flame-shaped bulbs; I don't think CFLs would really cut the mustard..

I think things are going in a good direction, though.. and if there's an attractive LED/CFL solution for my chandelier in the future I'd be all for it. (Though what would REALLY be cool are those flickering flame-shaped-element ones!!)

I don't really worry about efficiency since in the summer the lights are on less, and in the winter it's not like we 'waste' the extra heat the incandescents throw off. Our heat here is so high that saving a few lumens is negligible in the equation.

I also agree with the comment about standards addressing overall consumption and letting architects/builders/homeowners latitude in how that comes about. Before worrying about the individual sector.. I'd like to see someone address the prison-yard / concentration-camp-levels of lighting along roadways and in shopping areas / parking lots. Is all that glare really necessary? Do we need to be surrounded by light at all times? Couldn't a lot of it be on motion sensors at least? And can someone PLEASE go around and check the streetlights that are on 24/7?