California Prop 13

[Pete]

In another post we're debating whether Prop 13 should stand or fall...is fair or unfair.
California Proposition 13 (1978) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I must admit I have an ax to grind here. Full disclosure is I benefit greatly from it existence. Without going into too much detail, because of prop 13, I only pay $100 dollars per month to property taxes. I would like you to help me see how fair/unfair my property tax situation is (I know it's limited in this sense)by letting me know what you pay.
The poll is a per year amount.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Prior to prop 13, where I live, the tax rate was 2.6% for the (current) assessed value.

So take the overpriced value of your house and multiply it by 2.6% to get your taxes.

It's no wonder that people were upset and passed prop 13.

 

[Texas Proud]

Do you only want people from California to respond

What are you trying to get out of this poll

IOW, I pay about $4,000... but my sister pays closer to $12K... but her house is worth more than 3 times mine... her tax rate is a bit lower than mine, so in a sense I pay 'more' than she does as a percent of home value...

 

[aaronc879]

I'm in the <$1500 category however that is 2.1% of assessed value.

 

[VaCollector]

I'm assuming that you mean on our MAIN residence? With my other real estate, I am waaaaay above $6K.....

Since I recently roughed in my tax return I could put my hand on the figure
right away ~ $4707......whew....

 

[Pete]

I would like EVERYONE to respond to the best of your ability in DOLLAR amounts on your residence, do not add other properties you have. I really don't want it to have anything to do with real estate values. Just the dollar amount. We all basically get roads, police and fire protection, the military, the IRS, Congress, etc. I just want to know if prop 13 has me paying so much less for all those sevices than you do. I also realize there are many other taxes that play into this, but it's only property I'm interested in. I also realize prop 13 is gonna skew the results. I will put a poll up later for only non California residents.

 

[Nodak]

I pay 1.6% of assessed value and normally the value doesn't change unless the house is sold. I know people who have lived in their home for more than 25 years without the assessed value ever going up. The county government is making noises about re-assessing homes but hasn't done so yet. I'm in the less than $1500 category.

 

[Pete]

What are you trying to get out of this poll

I'm not quite sure actually. Obviously it's very UN-scientific. I suppose if I found out that many Americans were paying less that 1500 dollars a year in taxes I wouldn't feel so guilty about what I'm paying for all the services I get. If I find out Americans pay a hell of a lot more, I might change my tune and join the anti prop 13 chorus...or better yet, try and get the taxes in your area lowered.

 

[REWahoo]

I'm not quite sure actually. Obviously it's very UN-scientific. I suppose if I found out that many Americans were paying less that 1500 dollars a year in taxes I wouldn't feel so guilty about what I'm paying for all the services I get. If I find out Americans pay a hell of a lot more, I might change my tune and join the anti prop 13 chorus...or better yet, try and get the taxes in your area lowered.

Pete, I think you are trying to mix apples, oranges and rutabagas. Tax structures vary considerably from state to state, and even from county to county within a state. For example, I pay ~$5k in property taxes in TX, located in a rural county. The owner of our previous house of approximately the same value is paying ~8k in taxes because he's located in a big city in another county. Both of us pay 8+% in sales taxes but no state income tax.

How do you compare that to your CA property taxes?

 

[Texas Proud]

I'm not quite sure actually. Obviously it's very UN-scientific. I suppose if I found out that many Americans were paying less that 1500 dollars a year in taxes I wouldn't feel so guilty about what I'm paying for all the services I get. If I find out Americans pay a hell of a lot more, I might change my tune and join the anti prop 13 chorus...or better yet, try and get the taxes in your area lowered.

Good luck with that last one...

The premiss of property taxes is to pay for items based on the value of real estate. If you have a $500K house and pay $1,200 and I have a $500,000 house and pay $12,000... there is something wrong in this method of taxation...

Here in Texas... the farmers/ranchers get a break.. you can own millions of dollars of land and pay less tax then I do on my modest priced home... people over 65 get a tax break and also a 'frozen' account (maybe not everyplace, but here)...

 

[MasterBlaster]

If you have a $500K house and pay $1,200 and I have a $500,000 house and pay $12,000... there is something wrong in this method of taxation...

The problem is only for you. Those long termers with the low low property tax bills are very satisfied. Squatters rights !

Thanks for your support !

 

[ERD50]

Poll makes zero sense.

What someone in another state with a different value house pays has no bearing on what is 'fair' for you to pay.

More to the point (as I posted in the other thread), what is 'fair' about you paying less than your neighbor, just because he moved from one place to another?

Seems you are looking for rationalization for a bad law just because you personally benefit from it. That is the one of the big reasons we are in fiscal trouble in so many municipalities, states, and the country. Everybody wants somebody else to pay. Ain't gonna work real well.

Pete, I think you are trying to mix apples, oranges and rutabagas. ...

How do you compare that to your CA property taxes?

+1



-ERD50

 

[freebird5825]

Ooops..I voted before I saw the CA residents only for this poll. Subtract 1 vote from the 3500-4500 category.

 

[W2R]

I voted for <$1500, since my annual property tax here in New Orleans is still $872.99.

 

[kumquat]

While I voted 4500-6000, you may want to delete it as I'm in Canada not USA.

I look at amount paid vs. services received. For instance we have:

• Current house in large city, taxes about $4800, includes the usual schools, libraries, street, police, fire dept, garbage pickup.
• Farm land, taxes are about $1200/160 acres. Services are schools, a few roads (our farm doesn't get an elevated road since it's not a residence), volunteer fire dept. no police, no garbage, no nothing.

 

[kramer]

The better question to ask is what are your neighbors paying and what have they been paying over the years.

One perceived problem with Prop 13 is that you will often (not sometimes, but often) have two identical houses next to each other, where one owner is paying a fraction of the property taxes of the other owner.

Now that property prices have dropped in California, this lottery effect is less severe.

I had co-workers with horrid commutes who would rather have moved but they were "stuck" in place due to low property taxes and the threat of high property taxes if they bought another place.

With something like Prop 13, you get all kinds of problems and unintended consequences like this.

Many communities enacted severe zoning laws against new residential housing -- which was the major cause long term housing inflation in the state -- in favor of sales tax generating businesses.

 

[ERD50]

I had co-workers with horrid commutes who would rather have moved but they were "stuck" in place due to low property taxes and the threat of high property taxes if they bought another place.

So Prop 13 is bad for the environment and reduces revenue. Then, with the other hand, CA pays people (with the money they don't have) to buy EVs and hybrids.

-ERD50

 

[ziggy29]

Here's my Prop 13 story: when I bought my first home in California -- a one-bedroom condo in San Jose -- I lived about 15 miles away from my parents who owned a 4/2 SFR worth about three times as much.

But because they bought in 1966 and I bought in 1989, my property taxes were double what they paid.

 

[IBWino]

The premiss of property taxes is to pay for items based on the value of real estate. If you have a $500K house and pay $1,200 and I have a $500,000 house and pay $12,000... there is something wrong in this method of taxation...

I don't have a problem with this at all. When we bought our home in northern CA, it was with the intent of it being our retirement home and never moving again. With the rampant real estate speculation that took place from 2001 through 2007, our property taxes would have nearly tripled under the rules in place before prop. 13. Now, they are only allowed to increase by 2% per year, excluding local parcel taxes that are added by voters to support local projects.

 

[Lisa99]

Pete, I think the data you're looking for can be found at the TaxFoundation.org web site The Tax Foundation - Property Taxes on Owner-Occupied Housing by County, 2005 - 2009, Ranked by Taxes as Percentage of Home Value

The data is from 2005 - 2009 and can be downloaded in .pdf or in Excel.

Very interesting info...I didn't know that HI has one of the lowest property tax rates in the country.

 

[NW-Bound]

I had co-workers with horrid commutes who would rather have moved but they were "stuck" in place due to low property taxes and the threat of high property taxes if they bought another place.

With something like Prop 13, you get all kinds of problems and unintended consequences like this.

So Prop 13 is bad for the environment and reduces revenue. Then, with the other hand, CA pays people (with the money they don't have) to buy EVs and hybrids.
-ERD50

Well, with the longer commute, people would appreciate the gas mileage of the EVs more.

 

[Pete]

Thanks everyone. I might be comparing apples to oranges... I'm not really a statistics major. I do know I pay high income tax, registration, sales tax, and high fees of all sorts in Calif. I would think I should at least get a property tax break, but I find out my property tax, even though it's "low" because of prop 13 is still $20 higher than the national average. I certainly can't feel bad about that.

Prop 13 has a benefit even for new buyers. Their property taxes won't raise more than 2% per year either (stability is good), and if they stay a while, the benefits will be big for them too. At least, if they can afford the house now, they won't be taxed out of it because of something they can't control.

I highly doubt California's problems stem from prop 13 anyway...so many of the homes out here are new and I've read Californians move on average every 5 years, negating the benefits.

Please don't be haters. I will still fight to lower your taxes...not raise mine. I still love California. I'm typing this from my laptop as I sun in the 70's.

 

[mountaintosea]

I pay less than $800. But the real problem with prop.13 is that a business can buy into another business and be grandfathered in so that businesses here pay very little property tax. There's a loophole (of course) I'm not sure how it works but what needs to change is that when a new business buys out another they should be treated like private residences and undergo a reassessment.
Split Roll Property Tax - It's time to close a big tax loophole for businesses - Los Angeles Times

 

[ERD50]

Well, with the longer commute, people would appreciate the gas mileage of the EVs more.

And that's OK, let them buy one with their own money, not their neighbor's money.

Thanks everyone. ... I would think I should at least get a property tax break, ...

At the expense of your neighbors?

Please don't be haters. I will still fight to lower your taxes...not raise mine. I still love California. I'm typing this from my laptop as I sun in the 70's.

It's hard not to. You want it all, but want someone else to pay for it. I'm supposed to respect that? How the heck are you going to lower my taxes? More rationalization BS.

You've got your sun & 70's while we got a snowstorm (not that it bothers me, that's why I still live here). So maybe there is a price to be paid for what you like?

-ERD50

 

[Pete]

Thanks again everyone. This debate has helped me quite a bit.
I think I've learned that basing property tax assessments on a homes value is illogical and sometimes even counterproductive. Some of the consequences I've found are:
1) values of homes being depressed because of high taxes
2) fear of improving my house because of reassessment and rising taxes
3) changing assessments destabilizing the local governments
Even with these problems, it seems most of us live in areas where the assessed price sets property taxes.
I can say most assuredly that basing property taxes on the value of your neighbors house, ever changing as those values are, is even worse.
1) radical changes in taxes that destabilize families
2) purposeful (or not) changing of those taxes based on manipulation by government, banks, real estate developers, and wealthy individuals or groups.
3) people on fixed incomes losing their properties
Therefore, if we continue to base the property taxes we pay on assessed values of homes, I will continue to back prop 13 as a way to add stability.