Changing "Classes"

[Nemo2]

A term that is sometimes used for them is "nouveau riche", but that term is a little disparaging so I don't use it.

"Parvenues" being another.

 

[brewer12345]

I've been in social situations with groups of working class guys who didn't know me well and been a bit singled out as "college boy" or "blue blood." They assume because of my education, vocabulary, previous vocations as a CEO, etc and judged me harshly for it.

I find that when everyone involved is wearing fishing clothes/camo and holding a fishing rod/shotgun, these sorts of issues do not really come up. Lucky for me...

 

[RobbieB]

I've always been middle class and always will be.

 

[hesperus]

don' think about it much, it does seem a bit pretentious tho

 

[2017ish]

...

The other thing is my kids. I've never thought of myself as pretentious and I didn't really make a big deal about class. But, we lived in a nice neighborhood....

Anyway, once when we sold a house a few years ago we rented for awhile in a true middle class neighborhood. We did this while we were looking for a new house to buy. My kids complained that it wasn't a nice neighborhood and they thought it was basically a poor neighborhood. It wasn't. It was just a standard middle class neighborhood. I thought it was fine and felt it was fine to live in (houses weren't big enough for us at the time but they were fine). It was eye opening to me. I see myself as middle class and I can fit comfortably into that world. Even though I never talked to my kids about class they were nonetheless raised in an upper middle class environment and see that as the norm.

+1. Our kids experienced a very different upbringing than either of us, for both good and bad. We tried to limit the bad, and think we managed to do ok--but they have a very different mindset coming out of an MD/JD family, even though they were driving a 300,000 mile minivan in their high school years and their clothes were coming from target, WMT, and goodwill...

 

[braumeister]

Well they said you was high-classed
Well, that was just a lie
Yeah they said you was high-classed
Well, that was just a lie
Well, you ain't never caught a rabbit and you ain't no friend of mine

 

[Koogie]

I'll venture an opinion as a "dirty furriner"

Americans are often more uncomfortable than other nationalities with talking about or acknowledging classes. It seems "undemocratic" or pretentious to say there are different socio-economic classes of Americans.

But, there are. (some would say increasingly so but I'm not sure I agree with that)

It is true that western countries, like the US, have very high levels of social mobility but acknowledging that fact also acknowledges that there are different classes to move between.

For my part, I come from a poor-ish rural background (I literally had **** between my toes on the family farm until age 16).

But, I went to a technical college (like my immigrant father did) and am more or less a "grey" collar worker (and small business owner). So, from the peasant class to the boringly middle class.

My sister also followed the same route but my brother went for multiple degrees and professional designations and made many, many millions and is definitely upper middle class.

One class is definitely not better than the other nor do they come with any inherent moral superiority. But pretending they doesn't exist is kind of dishonest too.

 

[braumeister]

It is true that western countries, like the US, have very high levels of social mobility but acknowledging that fact also acknowledges that there are different classes to move between.
…
One class is definitely not better than the other nor do they come with any inherent moral superiority. But pretending they doesn't exist is kind of dishonest too.

Very well said.

 

[38Chevy454]

One class is definitely not better than the other nor do they come with any inherent moral superiority. But pretending they doesn't exist is kind of dishonest too.

I think it comes down to definition. As many have discussed here, economic class is just one way to look at it. Moral class or social class are additional methods to describe class.

I view myself as economically in middle class, and tend to dress and act that way. I just have the ability to buy nice stuff if I want to without a major sacrifice, which is above middle class. The key being want to, I rarely want to spend money on stuff. Planning early retirement is definitely a difference from typical economic definition of middle class. It does not make me any better from moral class standpoint or social class standpoint.

I'm just a well educated mechanic in my mind, that likes to work on his hot rods.

 

[Closet_Gamer]

We grew up lower middle class.

I don't "think" of myself as any class in particular but several years ago I acknowledged to myself that I'm no longer middle class in the sense of having middle class financial concerns. I'm very attentive to my investments but I haven't made a "hard" financial decision in years. I don't face the "vacation or retirement savings" trade-off. Gas prices are a mere curiosity. My kids will go to college comfortably -- their only debt being how much of it I choose to make them pay back. Someone hit my car yesterday and the $1000 deductible is a nuisance, not a real financial problem.

I have intentionally maintained an "upper middle class" LBYM lifestyle because I think it's good for the kids and I want to FIRE...but it's the inverse of "big hat no cattle." Just because we live middle class doesn't mean we are in the fuller sense of middle class concerns and pressures.

I think it's important to be self aware of these realities. Not for a sense of self-satisfaction but to avoid the "let them eat cake, I don't know why they think this is so hard" subtext that can come to subtly infect the thinking of people who have substantial means.

My $0.02.

 

[travelover]

...........I think it's important to be self aware of these realities. Not for a sense of self-satisfaction but to avoid the "let them eat cake, I don't know why they think this is so hard" subtext that can come to subtly infect the thinking of people who have substantial means...........

Yes, this resonates with me. Some of the most valuable assets passed on to me were lessons in living within my means and the knowledge of how to avoid getting screwed over by forces and individuals that help keep the down, down.

 

[stepford]

my brother went for multiple degrees and professional designations and made many, many millions and is definitely upper middle class.

What does it take to be upper class if not making many many millions? There seems to be a reluctance among anyone short of Gates, Buffet and Zuckerberg to self identify as anything but some sort of middle class.

 

[Nemo2]

What does it take to be upper class if not making many many millions? There seems to be a reluctance among anyone short of Gates, Buffet and Zuckerberg to self identify as anything but some sort of middle class.

'Upper class' is suggestive of aristocracy, and they're concerned that Madame Defarge might make an appearance one day.

 

[Meadbh]

Here is an interesting survey from Prof. Mike Savage of the London School of Economics. Historically, the British concept of "class" has been very bound up in one's ancestry. Savage's research on Social Class in the 21st Century takes into account economic, cultural and social factors. At the end, there is a survey. Somewhat surprisingly, I tested as Elite. I would have said I was solidly middle class. Perhaps the fact that I am not British had something to do with it.

What is your 21st Century social class? - BBC News

 

[KMyer]

What does it take to be upper class if not making many many millions? There seems to be a reluctance among anyone short of Gates, Buffet and Zuckerberg to self identify as anything but some sort of middle class.

You have asked the question that I have been asking myself before I started this thread. I have found that I have kept increasing my own personal minimum required net worth threshold to no longer be deemed to be part of the "middle class" or "working class". It is now ten times the number that I had in mind when I graduated from college. Based on the comments, I may not be as abnormal as I thought. It seems like everyone wants to self-identify themselves as being part of the middle class.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[audreyh1]

'Upper class' is suggestive of aristocracy, and they're concerned that Madame Defarge might make an appearance one day.

LOL!

If thye are not wearing powdered wigs and shiny silk breeches and hose and pumps with those fancy buckles I don't think they need to worry....

Wait - the founding fathers were caught wearing those same clothes!!!

 

[Nemo2]

Somewhat surprisingly, I tested as Elite.

I registered as Elite also, not surprising, more like astonishing.

My (supposed) ranking reminds me of when I returned to school as a (cough cough) 'mature' student.......at one point, close to graduation, one of the instructors announced that "The people in here are among the top 5% in the country"......to which I replied "Well there must be some dumb *** out there because there are some dumb *** in here".

 

[Texas Proud]

Here is an interesting survey from Prof. Mike Savage of the London School of Economics. Historically, the British concept of "class" has been very bound up in one's ancestry. Savage's research on Social Class in the 21st Century takes into account economic, cultural and social factors. At the end, there is a survey. Somewhat surprisingly, I tested as Elite. I would have said I was solidly middle class. Perhaps the fact that I am not British had something to do with it.

What is your 21st Century social class? - BBC News

Interesting.... I am technically middle class.... maybe start another thread on this....

 

[kimcdougc]

Grew up middle class. Got married at 19 and was poverty level for about the first 7 years of marriage. Careers took off. Retired upper middle class. Sold our big house and moved into a little 800 square foot house in a blue collar area. Love it here. The people seem so much more real.

I am sure no one in the would suspect our worth money wise and don't really care. There are good people and bad people no matter where you go. It is how you treat people and how they treat you that is what "class" is to me, not money.

 

[Major Tom]

The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club.

 

[braumeister]

'Upper class' is suggestive of aristocracy, and they're concerned that Madame Defarge might make an appearance one day.

I think we can deal with her. It's Frau Blucher I'm afraid of.

 

[Nemo2]

^ Love Cloris Leachman - if she makes it she'll be 91 in April, but it seems she's very frail.

 

[Danmar]

Interesting discussion if not a little self absorbed. Like Katsmeow, my background was solid lower middle class. I was the first of our extended family to go to University. From a financial point of view I have done better than my whole extended family combined. As you move up the financial "league tables" you tend to associate with people who have a lot more than you do. I think some of the "roughness" of my personality wore off. I became quite comfortable moving in these circles.

But I never thought of it as a "class" distinction, rather a "wealth" distinction. A lot of wealthy people have no "class," and many less wealthy people have lots of "class". Obviously, wealthy people tend to spend more money and do things a little differently than less wealthy people. Being confident allows you to be comfortable wherever you are.

 

[Mulligan]

I do not know if I truly ever changed "classes". But one thing is decidedly different now in retirement. When working most friends and acquaintances of social interactions were with white collar. Now it is decidedly blue collar in retirement. What a hoot... We would need a 7 second delay mechanism if conversations were on tv. Some "red" some "blue", all inappropriate!

 

[Lsbcal]

I looked it up and apparently I'm in the H. Sapiens class:

P.S. Missed biology in school. It's comforting to know I'm in the animal kingdom.