College quandary - parents perplexed

[Whisper66]

You first. What data do you have besides anecdotal ?

Edit: on second thought, this is headed off topic. So ignore my request as I will yours.


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[youbet]

OK. I figured you were just BSing but thought perhaps there was some data to support your position and I'd be interesting in hearing it. Personally I've haven't seen data supporting whether students do better when paying for at least a portion of their post secondary education themselves or whether their success is more dependent on other factors.

 

[Fedup]

Question? Does having "skin" in the game suppose to make you more responsible? I know quite a few friends who took out loans, still goofed off, dropped out of school and now have loan payments and no degrees.

I never understand this either. We're talking about a 17 year old child. Some kids are not mature enough.

 

[Fedup]

First off - congratulations to you for raising a bright, academic daughter. (I'm struggling with my 15yo and 13yo... they don't always understand the need for good grades, despite not being completely stupid.)

Does she qualify to go straight into the 3 year program? I ask this because I know the US high schools have a lower graduating standard than the European schools. It's one of the reasons the Int'l Baccalaureate program is starting to take hold here in the US. I'm sending my kids to IB high school for exactly this reason. My sons are dual citizens and there has been some interest, by younger son, of going to a public university in Italy (Bologna). But - he'd need to have the IB diploma or be faced with a year of remedial work because of his US HS diploma being lesser.

This has been my fear. Non US colleges are actually much harder than US colleges. Something about the style of teaching. While US colleges give more frequent projects and exams. So if you fail the final exam, you are in trouble.

 

[Rustic23]

A friend told his kids. "Take out student loans! When you graduate, I will pay them off. If you don't graduate, you pay them off." His first son dropped out. When the bills came due he went back and got his degree.

 

[eytonxav]

What is her major going to be? I'd look at from an ROI perspective. You've probably heard that the cost of Ivy league colleges may not have the payback to make them worth it vs a state or lower cost private university. If she is engineering, I would think Illinois will provide the biggest bang for the buck.

 

[AboutThere]

First off - congratulations to you for raising a bright, academic daughter. (I'm struggling with my 15yo and 13yo... they don't always understand the need for good grades, despite not being completely stupid.)

Does she qualify to go straight into the 3 year program? I ask this because I know the US high schools have a lower graduating standard than the European schools. It's one of the reasons the Int'l Baccalaureate program is starting to take hold here in the US. I'm sending my kids to IB high school for exactly this reason. My sons are dual citizens and there has been some interest, by younger son, of going to a public university in Italy (Bologna). But - he'd need to have the IB diploma or be faced with a year of remedial work because of his US HS diploma being lesser.

Thanks!
She does; that analysis is part of the application process.
UK secondary schools have an extra year. To adjust for that, UK schools grade US students on AP exams. DD had good grades (3.5) but much better AP exams. There is no question that she would not have been accepted to Michigan, Wisconsin, or Northwestern, but because of the focus on admittance to a specific program in the UK, she got into Cambridge and St. Andrews.
I doubt that they even looked at her HS grades. Not sure how IB works, but I'd think a typical IB student would rock AP exams.

 

[AboutThere]

A friend told his kids. "Take out student loans! When you graduate, I will pay them off. If you don't graduate, you pay them off." His first son dropped out. When the bills came due he went back and got his degree.

This is actually a great idea.

 

[AboutThere]

What is her major going to be? I'd look at from an ROI perspective. You've probably heard that the cost of Ivy league colleges may not have the payback to make them worth it vs a state or lower cost private university. If she is engineering, I would think Illinois will provide the biggest bang for the buck.

She is not majoring in engineering.

If she had been admitted to an Ivy, that would likely have cost less to us than Big State U, as the Ivies are much more generous with financial aid (especially scholarships vs. loans) than big public schools, which flips the whole cost/benefit thing on its head.

 

[Fedup]

Thanks!
She does; that analysis is part of the application process.
UK secondary schools have an extra year. To adjust for that, UK schools grade US students on AP exams. DD had good grades (3.5) but much better AP exams. There is no question that she would not have been accepted to Michigan, Wisconsin, or Northwestern, but because of the focus on admittance to a specific program in the UK, she got into Cambridge and St. Andrews.
I doubt that they even looked at her HS grades. Not sure how IB works, but I'd think a typical IB student would rock AP exams.

Interesting, my daughter didn't apply to any UK schools because she heard from a guy from her school who was accepted to Stanford that it's much harder to apply to Oxbridge. Was there an interview?

 

[Ian S]

Cambridge would be an experience of a lifetime and not many get the opportunity. It will not only expose her to an amazing educational experience but living in Europe will broaden her horizons in a way that will open many doors in the future. I say go for it!

 

[rodi]

Thanks!
She does; that analysis is part of the application process.
UK secondary schools have an extra year. To adjust for that, UK schools grade US students on AP exams. DD had good grades (3.5) but much better AP exams. There is no question that she would not have been accepted to Michigan, Wisconsin, or Northwestern, but because of the focus on admittance to a specific program in the UK, she got into Cambridge and St. Andrews.
I doubt that they even looked at her HS grades. Not sure how IB works, but I'd think a typical IB student would rock AP exams.

Just to clarify - IB and AP are not mutually exclusive if you're at a school that offers IB. The plan is for son to take 3 AP exams in addition to the IB exams. And like AP coursework - the IB courses are "weighted grades" meaning a higher scale - which pulls the GPA up.

In theory, if you totally work/ace the system you can eliminate 30 units of college coursework. UC schools and most Ivy's recognize/credit IB exams.

 

[Fedup]

My kid had 10 APs, only one was useful and that was Calculus AP BC. It allowed her to skip two math classes. It's not that helpful. She has high units which helps with her class standing, which helps with registration if you don't have Regents. She has Regents scholarship. So it's basically a NOP.

 

[Texas Proud]

Cambridge would be an experience of a lifetime and not many get the opportunity. It will not only expose her to an amazing educational experience but living in Europe will broaden her horizons in a way that will open many doors in the future. I say go for it!

Not as exclusive as a number of universities here...

Looked it up and they have close to 20,000 students... My DS was accepted to Rice which has just about 6,600...

MIT has just over 11,000...


Decided to look up Oxford... over 22,000 students....



Not saying it would not be an experience, but there are good schools here that accept fewer people which you could claim is more exclusive...


I think people get swayed by the name...



OH... just read this.... you cannot apply to both Oxford and Cambridge in the same year (with two exceptions)... from Wiki...

To allow a more personalised judgement of students, who might otherwise apply for both, undergraduate applicants are not permitted to apply to both Oxford and Cambridge in the same year. The only exceptions are applicants for organ scholarships[70] and those applying to read for a second undergraduate degree.[71]
​

 

[Fedup]

It's true they don't look for soft factors, no essays, no ECs, nothing. It's strictly academics. But also unless this student has visa to work in UK that might help deferring some cost.

 

[tulak]

Interesting, my daughter didn't apply to any UK schools because she heard from a guy from her school who was accepted to Stanford that it's much harder to apply to Oxbridge. Was there an interview?

I was curious about acceptance rates and was surprised to see it's 21% for Cambridge and 18% for Oxford. That's higher than I expected. For US Ivy League schools it's usually in the single digits, around 5% for Stanford and Harvard.

Of course, this number depends on a lot of factors, none of which I looked into. Maybe there are less, but higher quality applicants, to the UK universities?

 

[Fedup]

It's easier to get in for high stats students, not necessarily so for US Ivy League. So a high stats students with not great GPA, probably an indication of harder high school, have better chances in UK schools. In USA, high GPA is the focus, it's much harder for students with lower GPA to get into Ivy League schools unless you have hooks.
But I know Oxford has that interview question, I don't know if Cambridge has the same thing. But I would think so but I'm hoping someone here will tell me I'm wrong.

 

[pb4uski]

A friend told his kids. "Take out student loans! When you graduate, I will pay them off. If you don't graduate, you pay them off." His first son dropped out. When the bills came due he went back and got his degree.

Sounds like a good idea. DS washed out in an attempt at college at 17. I told him that if he wanted to go back the first semester was on him but if he got Bs or better that he could give me his report card and the statement and I would reimburse him and he could use that money to pay for the next semester and so on until either he graduated or I became comfortable enough that he was serious about his studies.

 

[highlow65]

To Op, you know your child, the only way to attend may be plus loans which you will be on the hook for, this is your choice, Will your kid pay the bill for you when she is able? I have had friends win and lose doing this, If it is made clear morally this is her debt and she is willing I personally don't see a problem. Only you know her character and what her word is worth.

 

[Idnar7]

My two daughters were three years apart I said I would pay for their first three years but they would be responsible for their 4th plus any additional. Tuition was relatively cheap, but rent, food, cars, and insurance really added up. They both graduated, one with a Masters. They both had jobs set up before graduation. I helped them each get a new car at graduation. I ended up with 60k debt which took 6 years to pay off. They paid off their student loans in their first two years working. They are very successful in their careers 10 years later. I remember driving my oldest to start school. She said "I'll probably flunk out first quarter". She got her Masters. You have to live it one day at a time. I don't regret any of it.

 

[Fedup]

The boys(or maybe boys in general) in my intermediate family seem to have problem in college, too many distractions. But not the girls. They are more perfectionists, as in they sweat if they get a B. So far 2 graduated with Latin honors and two more graduating next year. But they are all with the work hard play harder mentality.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

What is her major and do you have any hard data that for her major a degree from Cambridge would have quantifiable benefits? We're seeing with our kids and their friends that the biggest indicator of post college job and salary prospects seems to be major more than school, though none are in fields like investment banking or law where a name school make a big difference.

We offered to pay for 4 years of in state or an equivalent amount if they wanted to go elsewhere, with the only caveats no six figure loans to make up the difference and they had to have a major that would allow them to be financially self supporting post college.

 

[dallas27]

Lbym.


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[DrRoy]

How about send her to State U and then spot her with $10-20K for a trip to Britain for the cultural experience.

 

[Fedup]

I think if she wants to do investment banking, Cambridge is a better choice.