English Language

[Amethyst]

I got a greeting card from Ally Bank, where I'd recently had one of the worst customer service experiences ever (to their sort-of credit, they had been cleaning up a hack of my account; but they made it so incredibly difficult to find out what was going on, that I eventually closed out my account in disgust).

It was hand-written (or appeared to be), and contained the phrase, "Take care going forward." As if the youthful staff were afraid that at my advanced age, I could be unsteady on my feet.

 

[Amethyst]

Elision: An attempt to sound fashionably breezy and casual.

Sort of the way clerks in high-end stores will quote a price in numbers, without bothering with tedious words like "Hundred," "Thousand," or "Dollars." "The price for that is nine-forty."

My peeve is when folks say "Why don't you come with"

I keep waiting for the end of the sentence. Don't they realize there are multiple options: me , a gun, a sword, a ham sandwich ...

 

[DrRoy]

A good book is "The Mother Tongue" by Bill Bryson. There is also a video series called "The Story of English" from BBC/PBS.

 

[JoeWras]

Possibly an offshoot of the German "kommst du mit?".......my German is negligible but I admit to using both that and the English version periodically.

Du kannst Deutsch. Literally, "You can German" but really means "You can speak German"

Love idioms.

Grew up in Chicago and people always "came with." Thanks for helping me understand the possible origin. The trailing "with" drives DW crazy when she speaks with my family. I had to break the habit just for her.

BTW: DW pointed out the new idiom in English that takes after the above foreign idiom.

"She can adult now."

What? Oh, she can take action as an adult would. OK.

 

[Nemo2]

Du kannst Deutsch. Literally, "You can German" but really means "You can speak German"

The winter of 1997/8 my late wife and I camped on the beach outside Mulege, Baja. Next to us were a German couple, residents of Lake Tahoe.

Friends of theirs showed up, the guy had been stationed in Germany and spoke better German than I did/do (which isn't difficult) - however the German wife said to him "You sound like a G.I., but 'he' (me) sounds like a German".

Guess I'm a better mimic.

 

[Gumby]

The winter of 1997/8 my late wife and I camped on the beach outside Mulege, Baja. Next to us were a German couple, residents of Lake Tahoe.

Friends of theirs showed up, the guy had been stationed in Germany and spoke better German than I did/do (which isn't difficult) - however the German wife said to him "You sound like a G.I., but 'he' (me) sounds like a German".

Guess I'm a better mimic.

Being forced to speak English in two entirely different ways undoubtedly trained your ears to the nuances of pronunciation. It did for me.

 

[Nemo2]

Being forced to speak English in two entirely different ways undoubtedly trained your ears to the nuances of pronunciation. It did for me.

1966...traveling around the US with two Australians - one of them got into a 'conversation' with a guy somewhere in the 'Deep South'.

I'm sitting between them and the Southerner keeps saying to me "What did he say?" and "Tell him.....".

Not as good as this guy though:

 

[zedd]

I struggle with the correct usage of:
y'all
all y'all
and youse guys

 

[Amethyst]

Yall, I've heard in common use from Florida to Maryland. It can mean "you" (just one) or "you all" or "Everyone here."
All y'all means about the same as the British "You lot." A collective "you," familiarly.
Youse guys is from gangster movies, I think. I've never actually heard anyone use it without irony. But "Youze" I've heard used, entirely without irony, by Jersey hillbillies (yes, they have them; one used to drive our school bus). "Youze better sit down back there!"
Yunz is parts of Pennsylvania (and NJ at the PA/NJ border).

I struggle with the correct usage of:
y'all
all y'all
and youse guys

 

[sengsational]

I find these different ways to express ones self quite fun. When my kids were growing up, I'd try to use their lingo, offer butchering it on purpose for max eye roll.

 

[Major Tom]

the other annoying that is used to objectify people.

he's the guy that (or worse yet, what) delivers the mail. no. he's the guy who delivers the mail.

harbrace college handbook, never leave home without one.

Thank you for mentioning this one. It bugs me no end! However, this usage has become so common, that I have begun wondering whether I'm the one in error, and shouldn't be getting so irked by it. Every time I see the word "that" used to refer to a person, it vexes me.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Du kannst Deutsch. Literally, "You can German" but really means "You can speak German"

Love idioms.

Grew up in Chicago and people always "came with." Thanks for helping me understand the possible origin. The trailing "with" drives DW crazy when she speaks with my family. I had to break the habit just for her.

How about the "gangways," or paved walks between houses, that are so well-known in Chicago. I always envisioned gangs hiding out in their shadows ... but then I rode on the Autobahn and saw an exit marked "Ausgang," and the origin became clear.

Gangways are common in Milwaukee too -- just a *little* German influence there. Local history includes a department store "where the streetcar turns the corner around."

 

[JoeWras]

How about the "gangways," or paved walks between houses, that are so well-known in Chicago. I always envisioned gangs hiding out in their shadows ... but then I rode on the Autobahn and saw an exit marked "Ausgang," and the origin became clear.

Gangways are common in Milwaukee too -- just a *little* German influence there. Local history includes a department store "where the streetcar turns the corner around."

!! I still call them gangways! I didn't know there was another term.

Come to think of it, that term could scare a lot of non-natives. Visions of tommy guns around the corner.

 

[Nemo2]

How about the "gangways," or paved walks between houses, that are so well-known in Chicago. I always envisioned gangs hiding out in their shadows ... but then I rode on the Autobahn and saw an exit marked "Ausgang," and the origin became clear.

Gangways are common in Milwaukee too -- just a *little* German influence there. Local history includes a department store "where the streetcar turns the corner around."

https://www.etymonline.com/word/gangway

Gangway

"temporary passageway" to a ship, building under construction, etc., ultimately from Old English gangweg "road, passage, thoroughfare;" a compound of gang (n.) in its original sense "a going, journey, way, passage" and way (n.). Nautical use dates from 1680s in reference to a passage on the ship, from 1780 of the opening at the side whereby people enter and leave, and by 1840s of the board or bridge they use to get to and from the dock. As a command to clear way, attested by 1912, American English.

European language is all pretty much interconnected......as Willie Nelson sang: "So let's settle down and steal each other's song"

 

[JoeWras]

I love all the different English accents.

I've recently spent some time in "Down East" NC, specifically the old island communities. One day I interacted with a gentleman who had the thickest, and most beautiful High Tider accent I've ever heard. This is not a southern accent! It is unique to the USA and shares more with the British Isles than the US South.

So I ask him where his water valve is. He says: "Oitsoid by the sainde"

Took me a few tries to understand what he was saying.

With today's mass communication and travel, this will disappear. This gentleman was born pre WWII when the islands were still very disconnected.

 

[Nemo2]

With today's mass communication and travel, this will disappear.

Many people here, I'm sure, will recall regional accents on US TV Newscasts, (it's been 54 years since I first did a major drive around the States and there were still some then).....nowadays it's all generic cookie cutter reproductions.

 

[MRG]

1966...traveling around the US with two Australians - one of them got into a 'conversation' with a guy somewhere in the 'Deep South'.

I'm sitting between them and the Southerner keeps saying to me "What did he say?" and "Tell him.....".

Not as good as this guy though:

That guy is awesome. Sounds like parts of my career all smashed together.

In 1996 I was sent to Edinburgh, for 4 days, to visit a client who was really ticked off with our application running on a dedicated server. I had a peer with me who had been onsite, he was knowledgeable about the customer and portion of the application the customer was upset about.

After the standard glad handing and introductions I was taken to his customer's office. He proceeded to start relieving his frustrations on me in a thick Scottish accent. Kinda sounded like Scotty on the original Star Trek. Ok, he's upset and I'll listen for a while. I understood the problem and just wanted to get logged into the machine to see what could be done. Instead I'm getting chewed out for everything and everyone who has disappointed this mad man. Hey, it's a great accent.

Finally it's lunch time, this guy has ripped me a new one for four long hours! I'm proud of myself, I managed not to break out in hysterical laughter at him.[emoji87] When I came back from lunch he called me back in for another hour of yelling.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

https://www.etymonline.com/word/gangway

Gangway



European language is all pretty much interconnected......as Willie Nelson sang: "So let's settle down and steal each other's song"

Sure, the Saxons had a big linguistic influence on England as well as Germany. I can see it.

Nemo, was the term "gangway" common in your hometown? I recall reading articles that identified it as a Chicago idiom, but like I said, I later heard it in Milwaukee.

 

[Winemaker]

Yall, I've heard in common use from Florida to Maryland. It can mean "you" (just one) or "you all" or "Everyone here."
All y'all means about the same as the British "You lot." A collective "you," familiarly.
Youse guys is from gangster movies, I think. I've never actually heard anyone use it without irony. But "Youze" I've heard used, entirely without irony, by Jersey hillbillies (yes, they have them; one used to drive our school bus). "Youze better sit down back there!"
Yunz is parts of Pennsylvania (and NJ at the PA/NJ border).

At the other end of the commonwealth, we're "yinzers", who drink pop, and avoid "dahntahn" because of the traffic.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Thank you for mentioning this one. It bugs me no end! However, this usage has become so common, that I have begun wondering whether I'm the one in error, and shouldn't be getting so irked by it. Every time I see the word "that" used to refer to a person, it vexes me.

It's not uncommon for misspellings and malaprops to become acceptable parts of American English. I recently pointed out to a writer that her spelling of "comradery" should be camaraderie. She directed me to an online dictionary somewhere that called it an acceptable variant. Hmpf. It's not in the Graybeard New Collegiate Dictionary, that's for sure.

Another one on the verge of acceptance is the use of "gauntlet" for gantlet. After awhile it just seems pointless to correct the error, and it becomes part of the lexicon.

 

[braumeister]

Another one on the verge of acceptance is the use of "gauntlet" for gantlet. After awhile it just seems pointless to correct the error, and it becomes part of the lexicon.

Sorry, but the OED says "gauntlet" has been around in print at least since 1676, so I'd say "verge of acceptance" is a bit of a stretch.

Granted, "gantlet" is slightly older, but we're splitting hairs now.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Many people here, I'm sure, will recall regional accents on US TV Newscasts, (it's been 54 years since I first did a major drive around the States and there were still some then).....nowadays it's all generic cookie cutter reproductions.

As a kid in the 1960s I often stayed with my grandparents at my father's hometown in the UP backwoods between Marquette and Escanaba, Mich. They could receive only one TV channel that they coaxed in with tinfoil flags attached to the rabbit ears. On Sunday, the morning staple was a two-hour talk show ... in Finnish.

I heard Finnish spoken on the street in Ogema, Wis., as late as 1979.

 

[Nemo2]

Sure, the Saxons had a big linguistic influence on England as well as Germany. I can see it.

Nemo, was the term "gangway" common in your hometown? I recall reading articles that identified it as a Chicago idiom, but like I said, I later heard it in Milwaukee.

I was born in London, England, but escaped to Australia age 17.....(came to Canada in 1965)....but, if memory of my childhood/youth serves, the cry "Gangway" meant "Get out of the freakin' way!"

I also find interesting the number of words that are/were used in English and came from the Indian subcontinent:

https://www.dailywritingtips.com/15-english-words-of-indian-origin/

 

[Nemo2]

I heard Finnish spoken on the street in Ogema, Wis., as late as 1979.

My first wife, whose parents were both Finnish born, came from a small town in Northern Ontario.....lots of Finns, (they tend to huddle together.....perhaps for warmth....a holdover from the old country? ), and they had their own stores/credit unions, etc.

The 'entire' populace was pretty much Finns and French Canadians - I haven't been up there for the better part of 50 years, (and with luck won't go there again), but I wonder how much it's changed.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Sorry, but the OED says "gauntlet" has been around in print at least since 1676, so I'd say "verge of acceptance" is a bit of a stretch.

Granted, "gantlet" is slightly older, but we're splitting hairs now.

Getting slapped with those medieval armored gloves could be painful, I suppose.

According to my googling, "gantlet" comes from the Swedish "gatlopp," roughly, "lane," describing a path lined by two rows of men armed with sticks and other weapons to deliver punishment to a miscreant.

The origin of "gauntlet" appears to be French. It's a glove. Creative spelling in English goes way back, of course, and I suppose terms like "throwing down the gauntlet" contributed to the confusion.

Looking at Merriam-Webster's online edition, the definition for "gauntlet" does include a reference to the method of punishment in addition to its original definition as a glove. So you're right, the malaprop has gone mainstream for some time. But a few stalwart grammarians are still fighting the good fight. Here's an LA Times article about the distinction: Gloves come off over headline's use of 'gantlet'