goodbye Michael Jackson

[vicente solano]

I once read regarding Elvis, that when he died -his was in his artistic decline- one of his managers said "great career move". I think this applies to MJ too.
There were a few songs that I liked for a moment. He is not on a par to Elvis or Lennon.
Funnily it was George Harrison´s death the one that affected me more. And Freddy Mercury´s passing away was another great loss.

 

[W2R]

I once read regarding Elvis, that when he died -his was in his artistic decline- one of his managers said "great career move". I think this applies to MJ too.
There were a few songs that I liked for a moment. He is not on a par to Elvis or Lennon.
Funnily it was George Harrison´s death the one that affected me more. And Freddy Mercury´s passing away was another great loss.

Janis Joplin's death was the worst, for me. She was so young and so depressed (and so stoned) - - she never really got to experience the best life has to offer.

 

[ChrisC]

There were a few songs that I liked for a moment. He is not on a par to Elvis or Lennon.
Funnily it was George Harrison´s death the one that affected me more. And Freddy Mercury´s passing away was another great loss.

Not to be argumentative with you, but this is all a matter of taste. I happen to think that Elvis was overrated and had little, if any, creative genius to him; No doubt, he was iconic, and a showman, but he was kinda of limited as an entertainer. Lennon is another matter as far as creativity goes and lasting impact, but it's hard to separate him from the creative genius of the Beatles, as a group. I happen to think two of the other Beatles had just as much talent and creativity as Lennon. And none of these folks had the full range of entertainment talent as Michael Jackson.

As for Freddy Mercury, well, I never followed him though he had amazing vocal chords.

Michael Jackson, weirdness aside, was the first truly global, cross-over performer, with prodigious talents in dance and showmanship, and some song-writing ability. Truly, he is more iconic than Elvis, Lennon or any performer over the last three decades, perhaps only Madonna rivals his stature and ability. And a good measure of his impact is that his death crashed a few internet sites. Unlike any of the performers you mentioned, MJ was a fashion icon and pioneered a music genre; i.e. music videos. The "Thriller" video and album will have perhaps more cultural impact than Sgt. Peppers or anything Elvis created.

On a smaller scale, my son heard about the death out in the hot sands of Afghanistan in a remote, desolate part of that County before my daughter in Bosie ID heard about it; my 82 year old mother in a nursing home, facing the slow onslaught of dementia, lamented the death as we talked over the phone today; and my 90 year old mother-in-law was distressed about the death. Michael Jackson's impact is incalculable.

 

[clifp]

Don't forget that MJ worked with Quincy Jones, one of the best music business managers who ever lived. And oh, he's not broke.

As this article says it will take years to untangle MJ finances. Most articles I've seen say he was overspending in the range of $30-$50 million/year and racked up $300-$500 million in debt. So other than touring, dying is one of the best things that could happen to his estate.

His biggest asset is his share of the Beatles songs and his own songs and I have seen estimate they are worth a $1 billion so if that is true he is technically not broke. How much musical assets are worth in a era of rampant piracy is anybodies guess. IMO, in this economy, much less than people expect. My guess is that outside of the trust set up for kids, his debts at the time of death exceed his assets. We will see.

 

[HFWR]

Not to be argumentative with you, but this is all a matter of taste. I happen to think that Elvis was overrated and had little, if any, creative genius to him; No doubt, he was iconic, and a showman, but he was kinda of limited as an entertainer. Lennon is another matter as far as creativity goes and lasting impact, but it's hard to separate him from the creative genius of the Beatles, as a group. I happen to think two of the other Beatles had just as much talent and creativity as Lennon. And none of these folks had the full range of entertainment talent as Michael Jackson.

As for Freddy Mercury, well, I never followed him though he had amazing vocal chords.

Michael Jackson, weirdness aside, was the first truly global, cross-over performer, with prodigious talents in dance and showmanship, and some song-writing ability. Truly, he is more iconic than Elvis, Lennon or any performer over the last three decades, perhaps only Madonna rivals his stature and ability. And a good measure of his impact is that his death crashed a few internet sites. Unlike any of the performers you mentioned, MJ was a fashion icon and pioneered a music genre; i.e. music videos. The "Thriller" video and album will have perhaps more cultural impact than Sgt. Peppers or anything Elvis created.

On a smaller scale, my son heard about the death out in the hot sands of Afghanistan in a remote, desolate part of that County before my daughter in Bosie ID heard about it; my 82 year old mother in a nursing home, facing the slow onslaught of dementia, lamented the death as we talked over the phone today; and my 90 year old mother-in-law was distressed about the death. Michael Jackson's impact is incalculable.

Blasphemy!

 

[ChrisC]

Blasphemy!

YouTube - Michael Jackson - Beat It

 

[samclem]

Not to be argumentative with you, but this is all a matter of taste.

Agree

Truly, he is more iconic than Elvis, Lennon or any performer over the last three decades, perhaps only Madonna rivals his stature and ability. And a good measure of his impact is that his death crashed a few internet sites. Michael Jackson's impact is incalculable.

Disagree. Yes, he was very popular. Madonna is very popular. McDonalds is very popular, but nobody calls it excellent food. USA Today is very popular, but nobody calls it stellar journalism.

But, as you say, it is very much a matter of taste.

I'm more interested in why, on their death, some people mourn these performers so deeply, and the news vultures find it necessary to deluge us with retrospectives and memorials. There are real stories of greatness out there, but these aren't it. For my money, the guy who guts it out in a mind-numbing factory job for 30 years to provide for his family and put the kids through school, or the single mom who somehow raises her kids while working and going to night school are the heroes out there. I'm just not too interested in the accomplishments of sports stars and celebrities.

 

[ERD50]

Blasphemy!

+1

Of course this is absolutely in the area of personal preference and subjectivity, but I never got the excitement over MJ. But with people like Quincy Jones praising him, there must be something to it.

As far as 'Beat It!", AFAIC, one of the worst things about MJ passing is how many times I've been subjected lately to that (IMO) boring, repetitive, non-dynamic drone of sound that passes as 'music'. I don't need that stuck in my head. Sorry. Took a good hour of Hendrix to drive that from my brain He had a mega-hit with it, people like it, good for him, that's fine, I just don't get it. I don't get McDonald's popularity either.

A few months back I again heard his "Rockin' Robin", recorded when he (and I) was a youngster - I have to say, his voice was amazing on that song; clear, exciting, uplifting - really an amazing recording. I can't think of anything else that he did that I like. I recall a sickening sweet love song to a rat (Ben?) - no thanks!

Maybe Elvis wasn't 'original' since others were performing that music w/o public notice. But, taking a style and getting it out to the public is an art form in itself. There are not too many Elvis songs that I care for, but AFAIC his recording of "Heartbreak Hotel" alone is almost enough to justify his stature.

To each their own, whatever. I really don't understand the financial side of his life. Who gives these celebrities the leverage to go so far in debt? Wouldn't you be concerned that someone as unstable as this guy would never pay you back? Strange.

-ERD50

whoops, I see samclem already gave the McDonald's reference - oh well, I'm too lazy to edit....

 

[Bikerdude]

Its time for "bizarro world" to go to a new level as Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton descend into the MJ news morass. Be prepared to be dragged through MJ's family's dirty underwear for the next 3 years. You won't be able to avoid it.

 

[Texas Proud]

I recall a sickening sweet love song to a rat (Ben?) - no thanks!

That was the main song for a movie (if you did not know).... I don't think he woke up one day and said "I will write a love song to a rat"....

 

[tuixiu]

Hah I see media-leech Jesse Jackson has managed to insert himself in front of the cameras, standing solemnly demanding justice and full inquiry on behalf of the grieving Jacksons, using the "friend of the family" angle.

No doubt Al Sharpton is somewhere fuming at this latest twist in the desperate battle to remain relevant.

 

[Midpack]

MJ was a great entertainer, dancer and musical talent - and a very tragic and troubled human being.

Who would have ever thought that of Michael Jackson, Elvis, Hendrix, Joplin, Jim Morrison, Freddie Mercury, Bill Haley, John Bonham, Bon Scott, Karen Carpenter, Harry Chapin, Dennis Wilson, Keith Moon, Sid Vicious, Terry Kath, Jerry Garcia, Duane Allman, Marvin Gaye, John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, and Michael Hutchence - Madonna would turn out to be the smart survivor! Bizarre...

 

[clifp]

Hah I see media-leech Jesse Jackson has managed to insert himself in front of the cameras, standing solemnly demanding justice and full inquiry on behalf of the grieving Jacksons, using the "friend of the family" angle.

No doubt Al Sharpton is somewhere fuming at this latest twist in the desperate battle to remain relevant.

My god didn't Jesse, and Al get the memo. African-American have a new leader. His name is PRESIDENT Barrack Obama. I may not agree with the President on a lot of things, but I rather listen to him talk for 30 minutes than Jesse or Al for 30 seconds.

 

[Purron]

MJ was a great entertainer, dancer and musical talent - and a very tragic and troubled human being.

Who would have ever thought that of Michael Jackson, Elvis, Hendrix, Joplin, Jim Morrison, Freddie Mercury, Bill Haley, John Bonham, Bon Scott, Karen Carpenter, Harry Chapin, Dennis Wilson, Keith Moon, Sid Vicious, Terry Kath, Jerry Garcia, Duane Allman, Marvin Gaye, John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, and Michael Hutchence - Madonna would turn out to be the smart survivor! Bizarre...

Not so bizarre. Madonna's a strong, intelligent woman who has never abused drugs or booze and takes excellent care of her health.

While not a big fan of her music, I've been fascinated with Madonna's persona. One thing I really like is how she exudes strength and control in her performances and her life. This is so different from many other artists, particularly female ones, who are used and abused by the music industry and their own family and friends. Like her or not, you have to admire this quality in Madonna.

I bet she could teach us a thing or two about handling money. She's done quite well in that department. On June 22, 2009, Forbes named her the top earning musician in the world. She won out over the likes of Beyonce, one of the hottest young artists today; and Bruce Springsteen, an icon in the music industry. Pretty impressive given many considered her "over the hill" when she hit 50.


The Year's Top-Earning Musicians - Forbes.com

 

[HFWR]

YouTube - Weird Al' Eat It (HQ)

 

[dixonge]

I bet she could teach us a thing or two about handling money. She's done quite well in that department. On June 22, 2009, Forbes named her the top earning musician in the world. She won out over the likes of Beyonce, one of the hottest young artists today; and Bruce Springsteen, an icon in the music industry. Pretty impressive given many considered her "over the hill" when she hit 50.

The Year's Top-Earning Musicians - Forbes.com

What if Madonna had only one Top 10 hit? How much would she be worth?

One-hit wonders come and go, and end up doing the casino tour or fading into obscurity. And then there's Jimmy Buffett. Restaurants, beer, tequila and hamburgers all paying him licensing money. Several successful books. And in 2004, 27 years after Margaritaville topped the charts, he released an album Licensed to Chill singing old country songs with other country singers and it hit #1 on the Billboard 200 chart! He rakes in around $40 million a year from his concert tours too.

THAT guy is freakin' impressive.

 

[HFWR]

But seriously, folks, I look at it this way:

The early, rockabilly Elvis was ok in my book, though I'd argue that the real "King Of Rock-N-Roll" was/is Chuck Berry. Lennon's talent as a singer/songwriter/musician win's out over both EP and MJ. Jackson was undoubtedly talented, but was just not my cup-o-tea. In his defense, if we rejected celebrities because of their weirdness, we'd have few "heroes" left to admire...

YMMV...

 

[quietman]

And then there's Jimmy Buffett. Restaurants, beer, tequila and hamburgers all paying him licensing money.

I think you may be confusing Buffet with Buffett. Just because a restaurant offers a "Buffet" does not mean that they pay a licensing fee to Jimmy. Or Warren.

 

[dixonge]

I think you may be confusing Buffet with Buffett. Just because a restaurant offers a "Buffet" does not mean that they pay a licensing fee to Jimmy. Or Warren.

I hope you're being cute....

Margaritaville, Las Vegas, is said to be the top-grossing restaurant in the country

Jimmy Buffett, mogul of Margaritaville

 

[ChrisC]

But seriously, folks, I look at it this way:

The early, rockabilly Elvis was ok in my book, though I'd argue that the real "King Of Rock-N-Roll" was/is Chuck Berry. Lennon's talent as a singer/songwriter/musician win's out over both EP and MJ. Jackson was undoubtedly talented, but was just not my cup-o-tea. In his defense, if we rejected celebrities because of their weirdness, we'd have few "heroes" left to admire...

YMMV...

I look at it this way. Elvis was a copycat of Chuck Berry and others. Lennon was truly a gifted songwriter -- but his songwriting ability didn't make people bounce or dance -- limited in my view and his music does not translate well in other languages. As singers, Lennon and Elvis were simply mediocre. Dylan even transcends Lennon, in my view, as a songwriter in that genre.

They weren't my cup of tea.

I prefer music that makes one dance; all a matter of taste.

 

[ERD50]

I look at it this way. Elvis was a copycat of Chuck Berry and others.

I think one needs to be careful with the word "copycat" as it applies to music. Music builds on past influences, and Chuck Berry had his share. Read more of them at the wiki link. For example:

Ida Red - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Maybellene"

In 1955, Chuck Berry's "Maybellene" reached #10 on the pop charts and #1 on the R&B charts. Berry based the music in his song on Bob Wills' versions of "Ida Red" and "Ida Red Likes the Boogie."[5]

YouTube - BOB WILLS NUMBER ONE HITS OF 1940

As singers, Lennon and Elvis were simply mediocre. Dylan even transcends Lennon, in my view, as a songwriter in that genre.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but one prominent music publication does not agree (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Berry):

In 2004, Rolling Stone ranked Chuck Berry #5 on their list of the 100 Greatest Artists of All Time, being the 3rd individual singer behind Dylan and Elvis.

-ERD50

 

[Purron]

OK, going out on a limb here. Great musicians? Patti Smith anyone?

YouTube - patti smith,because the night

 

[ChrisC]

I think one needs to be careful with the word "copycat" as it applies to music. Music builds on past influences, and Chuck Berry had his share.

I was referring to the total package, not just taking works of others. Berry may have used the works of others -- and in music you're absolutely correct, one generally builds on the body of work of others, but Elvis was not Chuck Berry in terms of being a pioneering influence on music the way we speak of people like Robert Johnson, Bill Monroe, or Armstrong. Elvis was simply the next generation's Sinatra.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but one prominent music publication does not agree
-ERD50

It's all a matter of musical taste; like a poll in 2005 that had this somewhat obscure singer ahead of Elvis.

YouTube - Eva Cassidy - over the rainbow

 

[HFWR]

YouTube - Pretenders - Room full of mirrors (Dortmund 1984)

 

[ChrisC]

YouTube - The Platters - Great Pretender, Only You (live)