If you make a deal, do you stand by it?

[73ss454]

Just sit back and wait, my guess is you'll be getting the proper paperwork in the mail.

 

[FinanceDude]

I didn't see a blanket statement here that all car dealers are scum. Did someone really say that?

I personally would take the wrong car back and get the one with the right VIN number and go on with my life. I don't think it will be easy to get the $ back already paid for the better car just because of the necessary paperwork involved in cutting a check.

I hope it works out for you, DM.

Look over the many posts about carbuying on here. There is an overiding bias against the entire process involving dealerships. Pretty much everyone thinks that dealers rip everyone off and you should expect that. Having worked in a dealership many years ago, and having been in a position to deal with issues like dm faces, it is my opinion that the dealer is trying to be fair. Of course, dm could play hardball and do whatever he wants, but he is driving the car. A mistake was made, and I suppose dm and most here feel the dealer should eat the mistake. However, what if the mistake was $5000, or $10,000? Is the buyer ALWAYS right if a mistake is made? Something to think about..........

Right now, the dealer can't sell the car he still owns because the VIN is attached to another car. So, the dealer is screwed on that inventory, and dm didn't get the right car. I would tell the dealer to give me the correct car, at the correct price, and be done with it.life is too short..........

 

[FinanceDude]

I'm a very pro-business guy, but along with that I feel that businesses also have to take the responsibility.

Sure, we all make mistakes, but this is their job, they do it every day. A customer buys a car occasionally. I feel that puts the burden on the business to make it right. I really think they should eat it, figure out how the mistake happened, put in corrective action, apologize to the customer, and move on.

But, the reality is that splitting the difference is still a good deal for the OP (assuming the $30,000 was not a hard limit for him), and it seems like the least painful route. I'd still take it, but I'm not him. But I'd probably push pretty hard for getting it for $30,000 - it is their mistake.
-ERD50

The salesman is probably going to be fired. The dealer is going to eat some extent of the loss. Splitting the deal is a good deal. Markup on options is about 15%. This means that if the car is $2000 more, the dealer cost on this options is $1700. It could be a little more depending on the car. It's not like the dealer is marking up the options 500% like warranties or rustproofing and there's a lot of leeway.

The dealer will recapture his "loss" when the holdback check is cut, probably 90 days or so from now. Dealerships don't make a lot of money on new cars unless they are high end imports that are leased. They make a LOT of money on used cars, service and body shop work, and F&I products like credit life and disability, rustproofing, and warranties.........

 

[donheff]

I would tell the dealer to give me the correct car, at the correct price, and be done with it.life is too short..........

The "correct" car is the car they showed him (he is driving it). And the "correct" price is the price they offered it to him at. They may have misunderstood what they were doing but there seems to be no dispute that they told him he could have the car he was driving for $30K. The dealer is an idiot to F this guy over for an extra $1K.

My bet is the dealer will cave - that would be the "correct" outcome. Wait for it.

 

[FinanceDude]

The "correct" car is the car they showed him (he is driving it). And the "correct" price is the price they offered it to him at. They may have misunderstood what they were doing but there seems to be no dispute that they told him he could have the car he was driving for $30K. The dealer is an idiot to F this guy over for an extra $1K.

My bet is the dealer will cave - that would be the "correct" outcome. Wait for it.

I disagree, but respect your position.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Look over the many posts about carbuying on here. There is an overiding bias against the entire process involving dealerships. Pretty much everyone thinks that dealers rip everyone off and you should expect that.

I'm not seeing that at all and I just didn't want you to be making a blanket statement that we all think car dealers are scum since I know you hate blanket statements. One of my good friends is a car dealer actually.

As I said and you agree with, personally I would ask for the car that the paperwork does cover and be done with it.

Here's how DH and I negotiate for cars--we point out the one we like, the salesperson tells us how much it is, and we say okay and buy it. We've bought three cars this way from the same dealer (different salespersons).

What I've been looking for in this thread is anything DM (or the rest of us who buy cars who don't think car dealers are scum) could have done differently to have prevented the mistake. I don't see anything done wrong by DM.

 

[Texas Proud]

Look over the many posts about carbuying on here. There is an overiding bias against the entire process involving dealerships. Pretty much everyone thinks that dealers rip everyone off and you should expect that. Having worked in a dealership many years ago, and having been in a position to deal with issues like dm faces, it is my opinion that the dealer is trying to be fair. Of course, dm could play hardball and do whatever he wants, but he is driving the car. A mistake was made, and I suppose dm and most here feel the dealer should eat the mistake. However, what if the mistake was $5000, or $10,000? Is the buyer ALWAYS right if a mistake is made? Something to think about..........

Right now, the dealer can't sell the car he still owns because the VIN is attached to another car. So, the dealer is screwed on that inventory, and dm didn't get the right car. I would tell the dealer to give me the correct car, at the correct price, and be done with it.life is too short..........

No... I don't think that the dealership has to honor the price... they have the right to undo the deal... so if it is $10K, they can say 'please bring back the car'... or, as they have done, make a counter and say 'pay us and extra $5K and it is yours'.... but they don't seem to be doing that... they seem to want the deal, but only at the extra money. That deal has been refused... so what is left is eat the cost and send the proper paperwork or get the car back and the deal is off..



OHHH, had to edit... the problem with taking the 'other' car is that you might not have wanted to pay the $30K for THAT car... if you had known, you might have only paid $29K... and a deal would not have been done...

 

[dgalbraith100]

This reminds me of this "game":
Ultimatum game - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you have the car you want, and you paid $2000 less due to a mistake, the dealer is asking for $1000 to "split the difference". But you feel that is wrong, so instead of thinking to yourself, I'm getting $1000 *FREE* money.. you would rather spend $1000 EXTRA money to buy the car somewhere else.

If instead you want the real car you bought (the lower model) for what you really spent, because that is what you budgeted.. then take the car back and get the correct VIN car.


.......

BUT...

Here is where the TV/Car example and the above thoughts don't work. You can price a TV down to the last penny of what you will pay at "TV Dealers". So when you walked in you knew the TV would be $250...

In this case you don't know that you could/couldn't get the car for $1000 more, or $1000 less... imagine you take the car back, go to a different dealer, and get the exact same car for $29K instead...

So right now you don't know what you would pay for that model elsewhere.... Here is what I would do... drive into that "other dealer" (in a different car) and negotiate to buy the model of car you have right now... tell them dealer 'X' is willing to sell it to me for $31K. (or whatever it is you paid + the $1000 for the error). If they can beat that... take the current car back to the other dealer, get your money back... and go buy the car at the new dealer... if they don't, give the dealer the extra $1000 and be happy... you got the best deal possible. Treat this as a financial transaction, not an emotional one. Get the best deal you can, but don't act "I'm gonna screw the man cause he screwed me". Just get the best deal you can, being fair and honest about it.

Laters,
-d.

 

[Texas Proud]

One of the things that get people boiling is having to go through 'the deal'... almost all the times I have had to deal with a car salesman, it has not been good. I remember going in once with my mom to a dealership that was advertising many $K of cars... and she liked one... I said, 'let's not waste time, what is your best deal'... and he quoted me sticker I said you are wasting my time and we left...

The times I have had good experiences (except one) has been dealing with the fleet people (credit union) or the internet guy... all have been... it is $500 or whatever over our cost and here is our cost... (of course, this does not include holdbacks etc... but that is another story)... so it is very easy to get the deal done... you pick the car you like, look at the paperwork and add the vig...


I will say... the one exception is when I had a deal... and went to pick up the car and the CU guy was packing his office... seems that the GM nixed the deal that was done because someone had come in and liked the car and was willing to pay 'sticker'... so my deal was not honored (who cares about what was signed etc... it was all done over the phone and with faxes... so not 'check').... funny thing is the guys credit fell through and the GM came running to me as I was leaving to try and get the deal back... sorry, no thanks...

 

[Rustic23]

FinanceDude,
You go into a coin shop or stamp shop and you see a coin you like and it seems like a real good deal, because similar coins cost more than the dealer has his priced at, so you buy it. You ask for the dealer to send you the paperwork on the coin. When you get it you realize it is paperwork for a lesser coin. The dealer says 'Oh MY, I had the wrong coin in the display, you will have to pay me more if you want to keep the coin you bought.'

You think that is OK? You found, inspected, and purchased a product. I know the old saying 'Let the buyer beware', but the seller can just say 'Ooops' and the buyer should cave?

 

[easysurfer]

If it was me, I would split the difference and then close the deal to avoid all the headache involved. But I wouldn't just get mad but get even . I don't mean getting even by throwing eggs at the dealership's window or anything, but if I had intended to use them for service and repair, I'd definitely go somewhere else. In addition, if a friend I knew was car shopping, I'd definitely say DON'T GO to that dealer. In otherwords, they would have surely lost me (and hopefully my friends) as a future customer.

 

[haha]

One of my good friends is a car dealer actually.

I nominate this for best stealth humor of the week.

Ha

 

[Martha]

I didn't see a blanket statement here that all car dealers are scum. Did someone really say that?

I personally would take the wrong car back and get the one with the right VIN number and go on with my life. I don't think it will be easy to get the $ back already paid for the better car just because of the necessary paperwork involved in cutting a check.

I hope it works out for you, DM.

But he didn't buy that car or want that car. He never even saw that car. He got the right car, it is the VIN that is wrong.

 

[FinanceDude]

No... I don't think that the dealership has to honor the price... they have the right to undo the deal... so if it is $10K, they can say 'please bring back the car'... or, as they have done, make a counter and say 'pay us and extra $5K and it is yours'.... but they don't seem to be doing that... they seem to want the deal, but only at the extra money. That deal has been refused... so what is left is eat the cost and send the proper paperwork or get the car back and the deal is off..



OHHH, had to edit... the problem with taking the 'other' car is that you might not have wanted to pay the $30K for THAT car... if you had known, you might have only paid $29K... and a deal would not have been done...

The average total markup on a car is 8-12%, unless we are talking high margin high end imports. If dm negotiated well, he probably got the car at $100 over invoice or something. If the car he got that was wrong was priced $2000 higher, the dealer cost on that $2000 worth of options was about $1700 give or take. So the dealer is losing money on this deal. Again, I think the dealer is offering a fair deal, but dm can do what he wants............

 

[FinanceDude]

I will say... the one exception is when I had a deal... and went to pick up the car and the CU guy was packing his office... seems that the GM nixed the deal that was done because someone had come in and liked the car and was willing to pay 'sticker'... so my deal was not honored (who cares about what was signed etc... it was all done over the phone and with faxes... so not 'check').... funny thing is the guys credit fell through and the GM came running to me as I was leaving to try and get the deal back... sorry, no thanks...

Did you put a deposit on the car over the phone by credit card? If so, they should not have sold it. If not, you really didn't have anything but a handshake deal. One guy I know has been selling cars for 25 years. He said if he had a dollar for everytime a guy said over the phone "I'll take it", but never followed through, he would be retired a long time ago........

 

[dm]

I just got back from the dealer. I signed new application for title and got a new receipt showing the correct vin. I did not pay any more.

Ive got a tee time so I have to run. But hopefully I'm done with this.

 

[Emeritus]

I just got back from the dealer. I signed new application for title and got a new receipt showing the correct vin. I did not pay any more.

Ive got a tee time so I have to run. But hopefully I'm done with this.

well done

 

[Texas Proud]

Did you put a deposit on the car over the phone by credit card? If so, they should not have sold it. If not, you really didn't have anything but a handshake deal. One guy I know has been selling cars for 25 years. He said if he had a dollar for everytime a guy said over the phone "I'll take it", but never followed through, he would be retired a long time ago........

No.... I was going to make the down payment by CC, but the guy said, 'you are coming to pick it up tonight, don't worry about it'... so it was him that said not to give a deposit.. I had financing from the CU that was already approved and everything was 'done' except for signing all the docs..

And as I said, the guy quit over this... he said it was not worth working for a dealership that would not stand behind their deals...

I agree... the GM wanted to get more money... he decided that there was no 'legal' deal... fine with me... I will go somewhere else...

Funny thing is he argued with me for over 30 minutes on why I sould take the deal now (after the other one fell through)... I just did it to waste his time... it also was funny that IF I had arrived about 15 minutes later... I would never have known unless the CU guy was still there told me... he was gone shortly after I arrived and the deal fell through shortly after I arrived also...

 

[VaCollector]

I just got back from the dealer. I signed new application for title and got a new receipt showing the correct vin. I did not pay any more. Ive got a tee time so I have to run. But hopefully I'm done with this.

"I love it when a plan comes together!"

IMHO that is what should have happened on day one...and I am glad to see that the dealer did the right thing! Enjoy your new car!!

 

[M Paquette]

We used to kick guys like you out of our dealership........

I'd be honored.

Never had a dealer throw me out, even when I cut my offer after being yanked around. I've had a couple chase me down the sidewalk trying to get me to come back, though.

The dealer would do the four-square, pass it over, and I'd say "no trade-in, no financing", strike the trade, down, and monthly, and write my offer (based on a thoroughly researched local real cost, manufacturer's kick, etc, with a [-]generous[/-] reasonable profit) and send him off to the tower. He'd come back with 'Manager says no way," a new number a few thousand higher, and shove the four-square back. I'd write my new offer, a hundred less than the previous, and shove it back. This always got "No, no, you don't understand!" and an explanation that I should raise my offer. Hey, my time has value, too, and you are wasting it.

I never got thrown out, and when we reached a deal it was within a few hundred of what I originally offered. I was happy, the dealer moved a car and made some money.

 

[easysurfer]

The first car I bought I went with an older brother who was better at the negotiation process. I liked his style. After going back and forth doing the usual counter offers, threatening to go to another dealer or buy a competing make at another dealer when we made our final offer, my brother just said, "this is what the offer is, take it or leave it...stuff like taxes, other charges, you (the dealer) calculate and figure out based on the final price." Worked out. Didn't pay anymore than the price offered.

 

[kcowan]

I just got back from the dealer. I signed new application for title and got a new receipt showing the correct vin. I did not pay any more.

Ive got a tee time so I have to run. But hopefully I'm done with this.

All's well that ends well. Too bad you had to have so many days of stress. And no lifetime oil changs for your pain and suffering!

 

[Sue J]

I just got back from the dealer. I signed new application for title and got a new receipt showing the correct vin. I did not pay any more.

Ive got a tee time so I have to run. But hopefully I'm done with this.

Excellent results, dm! Enjoy your new car and your golfing.

 

[ERD50]

edit - I just saw that dm got it the car at the price he offered - glad it worked out for you - congrats!

ERD... but your TV analogy does not work... if they have the price at $200 IN THE STORE then they have to sell it for $200... they can quickly go back and tear up that sign, or reprice them, but they can not say you owe $225... that is 'bait and switch'...

Yes, you are right - I was a little loose with my illustration. Let's say the worker was putting up the sign one digit at a time, and as you walked by he had the '2' up but didn't take down the other numbers yet.... you get my drift, some kind of honest misunderstanding between the real price and what the customer thought was the 'real price'.

However, what if the mistake was $5000, or $10,000? Is the buyer ALWAYS right if a mistake is made? Something to think about..........

Yes, but if it was a $10,000 mistake, the customer would probably realize that something was up. The old "you can't cheat an honest man" line applies. OTOH, if the 'expert', the car salesman didn't realize the mistake, how can we expect the 'amateur', the customer to realize it? That's why I tend to say that in most cases the business needs to eat the mistake and move on.

The salesman is probably going to be fired.

That may be, but geez, $1700 is the cost of doing business sometimes. Everyone makes mistakes. I think you are often better off keeping the people who made mistakes if it is clear that they learned something from it. They won't make that mistake again. Unless they aren't capable of learning, but they probably should have been let go already in that case.

-ERD50

 

[Glo]

I'm with you on this one. A deal is a deal!