If you make a deal, do you stand by it?

[Westernskies]

He's not "independent' he is a "dealer'. people walk through the door because he has a big "GM" sign on the door.

It's a specific violation of the Maryland dealer licensing law to fail to honor a Automobile warranty contract
TRANSPORTATION
TITLE 15. VEHICLE LAWS -- LICENSING OF BUSINESSES AND OCCUPATIONS
SUBTITLE 3. DEALERS Md. TRANSPORTATION Code Ann. § 15-312 (2010)
§ 15-312. Prohibited acts -- Vehicle sales transactions

(g) Failure to comply with terms of warranty or guarantee. -- A dealer or an agent or employee of a dealer may not willfully fail to comply with the terms of a warranty or guarantee.

To be technical GM makes promises directly to the customer, including a promise that dealers will do certain things. Dealers sign off on those promises both when they get a dealership and second when they sell cars using the GM paperwork. Consumers are third party beneficiaries of the Gm-Dealer contracts. If a dealer defaults on the primary automobile contract, the consumer can sue Gm directly for performance. So GM is fully responsible for the failure of the dealer to properly service the customer. Since GM is responsible for the action of the dealer, their contracts give them the necessary control Many states license dealers Maryland law requires the parties to submit the contracts as part of teh license

§ 15-203. Application for license

(b) Documents required. -- Each applicant for a license shall submit as part of the application:
(1) A copy of each form of any new vehicle warranty currently given or offered by the applicant;
(2) A copy of each form of franchise and any other contract with dealers used by the applicant, together with a list of dealers in this State who hold a franchise from the applicant;
(3) A copy of the vehicle preparation and delivery obligations of its dealers; and
(4) A statement of the compensation the applicant agrees to pay a dealer for parts supplied and work done by the dealer under:
(i) The preparation and delivery obligations referred to in item (3) of this subsection; or
(ii) Any outstanding express or implied new vehicle warranty.

§ 15-206.1. Good faith

(a) "Good faith" defined. -- In this section, "good faith" means honesty in fact and the observance of reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing in the trade.(b) Required. -- A manufacturer, distributor, or factory branch, whether directly or through an agent, employee, or representative, may not fail to act in good faith:
(1) In acting or purporting to act under the terms, provisions, or conditions of any franchise agreement; or
(2) In any transaction or conduct governed by this subtitle.

So if a dealer screws a warranty customer, it is a violation of law.

Take a copy of the above regulations to your local dealer (the one that you didn't buy the warranty from) tell them you think they were screwing you on the warranty and so you bought it somewhere else- and demand that they service your car NOW.. or else... Then get back to us with a real-world situation report and let us know how that goes for you. You live in a fantasy world, where everyone is out to screw you, maybe you should take a step back and consider why

 

[Nodak]

Take a copy of the above regulations to your local dealer (the one that you didn't buy the warranty from) tell them you think they were screwing you on the warranty and so you bought it somewhere else- and demand that they service your car NOW.. or else... Then get back to us with a real-world situation report and let us know how that goes for you. You live in fantasy world, where everyone is out to screw you, maybe you take a step back and consider why

Agree completely

 

[harley]

He's not "independent' he is a "dealer'. people walk through the door because he has a big "GM" sign on the door.

It's a specific violation of the Maryland dealer licensing law to fail to honor a Automobile warranty contract
TRANSPORTATION
TITLE 15. VEHICLE LAWS -- LICENSING OF BUSINESSES AND OCCUPATIONS
SUBTITLE 3. DEALERS Md. TRANSPORTATION Code Ann. § 15-312 (2010)
§ 15-312. Prohibited acts -- Vehicle sales transactions
.
.
.
So if a dealer screws a warranty customer, it is a violation of law.

You do realize that lawyers are only a couple of notches above car dealers on the graph, right?

 

[M Paquette]

manufacturers cultivate dealers and don't appreciate customers screwing them

Yah, we all saw how well that worked out for GM and Chrysler dealers recently.

Something tells me GM would rather have the customers. But that's just me.

I don't take my car to the dealership I bought it at for service because:
1) The service department was a tad crooked. As in "Your brake rotors are worn. We'll pop on these lightweight Chinese rotors that are below minimum thickness when brand new, and definitely thinner than your worn rotors, and charge you for OEM parts."
2) GM closed the dealership.

I have this thing about not patronizing businesses that try to rip me off. I know, I know. What a terrible customer. They should throw me out for not letting them walk all over me.

 

[Dawg52]

I don't take my car to the dealership I bought it at for service because:
1) The service department was a tad crooked. As in "Your brake rotors are worn. We'll pop on these lightweight Chinese rotors that are below minimum thickness when brand new, and definitely thinner than your worn rotors, and charge you for OEM parts."
2) GM closed the dealership.

I have this thing about not patronizing businesses that try to rip me off. I know, I know. What a terrible customer. They should throw me out for not letting them walk all over me.

But you don't have a problem with buying a new car from the same place?

 

[Emeritus]

Take a copy of the above regulations to your local dealer (the one that you didn't buy the warranty from) tell them you think they were screwing you on the warranty and so you bought it somewhere else- and demand that they service your car NOW.. or else... Then get back to us with a real-world situation report and let us know how that goes for you. You live in a fantasy world, where everyone is out to screw you, maybe you should take a step back and consider why

I don't take it to the dealer. The warranty comes from GM. I ask the regional representative if he want to see me in court and try to defend the acts of his agent. It's his job to sort out the dealer.

 

[Emeritus]

You do realize that lawyers are only a couple of notches above car dealers on the graph, right?

But we have so much fun dropping the small claim court filing on the manufacturer's regional representative.

 

[Emeritus]

But you don't have a problem with buying a new car from the same place?

Its an entirely different issue. You might buy a bottle of coke at a filthy store where you would not buy a sandwich.

I've had all my cars serviced for 20 years at the same Goodyear service operation. First class work all the time. Warranty work I expect dealers to do in accordance with the warranty.

 

[lets-retire]

Its an entirely different issue. You might buy a bottle of coke at a filthy store where you would not buy a sandwich.

I've had all my cars serviced for 20 years at the same Goodyear service operation. First class work all the time. Warranty work I expect dealers to do in accordance with the warranty.

I think what most people are getting at that you refuse to understand is you will get your warranty work done. How many extra freebies will you receive is the question. Is it the first one out the door or is it the last one for the day? Does the dealer go the extra mile or do they simply provide the minimum service? If you go in and have work done, do they tell you in the next three or four months another part is going to go out, or do they say nothing and let you break down on the side of the road? Is it service or service with a smile?

 

[Emeritus]

I think what most people are getting at that you refuse to understand is you will get your warranty work done. How many extra freebies will you receive is the question. Is it the first one out the door or is it the last one for the day? Does the dealer go the extra mile or do they simply provide the minimum service? If you go in and have work done, do they tell you in the next three or four months another part is going to go out, or do they say nothing and let you break down on the side of the road? Is it service or service with a smile?

I didn't see any frequent flyer number at the service counter. Does a Bakery give a new customer the old stale bread, or good stuff with a smile?

 

[Westernskies]

I don't take it to the dealer. The warranty comes from GM. I ask the regional representative if he want to see me in court and try to defend the acts of his agent. It's his job to sort out the dealer.

But we have so much fun dropping the small claim court filing on the manufacturer's regional representative.

These statements, and your bellicose attitude speak volumes. You obviously derive a perverse sense of pleasure out of creating these situations, escalating them, and then, as an attorney, threatening to sue- nothing more than a self-serving scam artist. Going thru life as a PITA is apparently your goal, and you have done a good job of documenting your handiwork during your short time here on E-R.org.

I'm certain you are singularly proud of your accomplishments.

As another poster so eloquently suggested.. Have a nice trip
Mmmm...Bye.

 

[M Paquette]

But you don't have a problem with buying a new car from the same place?

Sure I do. I stopped patronizing them as soon as I got bit by the service department. The sales person I had known for years, and I never had an issue with sales. Heck, the finance guy had even stopped trying to pitch undercoating and Lustre Glaze to me.

It's a shame the service department was dirty. That's the real profit center for the dealerships I've known, but these guys were trying to be... um... a little TOO profitable, selling junk as OEM parts to replace perfectly good parts.

They're out of business now, and I've got plenty of time and my own facility to handle most car work. (Yah. I've torn down and rebuilt engines and transmissions, welded this 'n that, and blowed stuff up real good on track days!)

 

[lets-retire]

I didn't see any frequent flyer number at the service counter. Does a Bakery give a new customer the old stale bread, or good stuff with a smile?

No, but if you are a frequent customer the people who work there will get to know you. That is when they start giving the extra benefits, above and beyond just keeping you satisfied. If a bakery is selling stale goods as fresh they are giving substandard goods and service. What do you normally do to a business that is giving you substandard goods and service, other than sue them? You quit going and they go out of business.

 

[Emeritus]

These statements, and your bellicose attitude speak volumes. You obviously derive a perverse sense of pleasure out of creating these situations, escalating them, and then, as an attorney, threatening to sue- nothing more than a self-serving scam artist. Going thru life as a PITA is apparently your goal, and you have done a good job of documenting your handiwork during your short time here on E-R.org.

I'm certain you are singularly proud of your accomplishments.

As another poster so eloquently suggested.. Have a nice trip
Mmmm...Bye.

I take pleasure in protecting ordinary consumer from defaulting businesses and governments. You know the kind. They are filled with folks who say things like

"Here's a news flash: Service departments don't really LIKE manufacturer's warranties.........typically the money the dealer gets to do warranty work contains the thinnest margins in the entire service department, save for loss-leader oil changes........"

The economy actually works better if they placed this as a big sign on the door. Its called "transparency" . If they do business in a different way from how they advertise and promote themselves I think customers should know.

 

[Emeritus]

No, but if you are a frequent customer the people who work there will get to know you. That is when they start giving the extra benefits, above and beyond just keeping you satisfied. If a bakery is selling stale goods as fresh they are giving substandard goods and service. What do you normally do to a business that is giving you substandard goods and service, other than sue them? You quit going and they go out of business.

so should I run my class like a business? Give favors to the "regular customers" i.e. make the ones who won't take my other class wait longer for their exam grades ?
Is that what you are suggesting?

How should we stick to students who dare to take courses at other universities in the system?

Etc

 

[youbet]

So you are suggesting you leverage your position of authority to obtain inappropriate accomodations from students in exchange for university class credit? Yuuuuch....... Makes my skin crawl.

 

[lets-retire]

so should I run my class like a business? Give favors to the "regular customers" i.e. make the ones who won't take my other class wait longer for their exam grades ?
Is that what you are suggesting?

How should we stick to students who dare to take courses at other universities in the system?

Etc

I'm not suggesting you do anything with your class. But since you asked, why don't you run your class however your paycheck can handle? It is your class. Pander to whomever you want. If you want to pander to the future leaders then hold the students to high standards. If you want to pander to slugs, then pander to those who are more interested in partying and getting high. If it were me, I would hold the students to the highest standards, I could find. There are many different levels of college education. To correlate your teaching to the discussion at hand, what is your product? Knowledge. If you teach more than is required by the course or you require a more in depth level of knowledge than the course requires then you are giving the students more for their money. If you make the course extremely easy, you are selling them stale bread.

 

[Emeritus]

So you are suggesting you leverage your position of authority to obtain inappropriate accomodations from students in exchange for university class credit? Yuuuuch....... Makes my skin crawl.

No that is what they suggested is how their business is run "in the real world"

I simply was pointing out what a wretched idea it was

 

[Emeritus]

I'm not suggesting you do anything with your class. But since you asked, why don't you run your class however your paycheck can handle? It is your class. Pander to whomever you want. If you want to pander to the future leaders then hold the students to high standards. If you want to pander to slugs, then pander to those who are more interested in partying and getting high. If it were me, I would hold the students to the highest standards, I could find. There are many different levels of college education. To correlate your teaching to the discussion at hand, what is your product? Knowledge. If you teach more than is required by the course or you require a more in depth level of knowledge than the course requires then you are giving the students more for their money. If you make the course extremely easy, you are selling them stale bread.

I work their butts off. I am grading their midterms right now. But my product is not "knowledge" as such. Knowledge is cheap, education is expensive. Education , it has been said , is "what is left after everything you learn has been forgotten".

 

[lets-retire]

I work their butts off. I am grading their midterms right now. But my product is not "knowledge" as such. Knowledge is cheap, education is expensive. Education , it has been said , is "what is left after everything you learn has been forgotten".

Spoken like a true academic.

 

[Texas Proud]

I work their butts off. I am grading their midterms right now. But my product is not "knowledge" as such. Knowledge is cheap, education is expensive. Education , it has been said , is "what is left after everything you learn has been forgotten".

Spoken like a true academic.

I agree with his statement.... I have told my son something similar... one time he was telling me he has straight 'As'.... I said... but you can not TELL me what you learned... so to me it is worthless... IF you can not explain to someone else what you learned (and my son said he could not)... then you really did not learn anything no matter what grade you made...

Teaching someone how to solve problems is difficult... I see it all the time... trained monkeys.... they know what to do IF they are told... but present them with something that is similar... that if they used their brain and also had the knowledge of what they learned it would be simple... but for some reason they can not figure it out... well, again, no knowledge....

Opps... I was using 'knowledge' like Emeritus used 'education'... but I think you get the drift...

 

[Westernskies]

I agree with his statement.... I have told my son something similar... one time he was telling me he has straight 'As'.... I said... but you can not TELL me what you learned... so to me it is worthless... IF you can not explain to someone else what you learned (and my son said he could not)... then you really did not learn anything no matter what grade you made...

Teaching someone how to solve problems is difficult... I see it all the time... trained monkeys.... they know what to do IF they are told... but present them with something that is similar... that if they used their brain and also had the knowledge of what they learned it would be simple... but for some reason they can not figure it out... well, again, no knowledge....

Opps... I was using 'knowledge' like Emeritus used 'education'... but I think you get the drift...

Education is what happens when kids fresh out of college, full of knowledge meet the real world. Most of them figure out the difference, but, alas, some never do...

 

[Emeritus]

Education is what happens when kids fresh out of college, full of knowledge meet the real world. Most of them figure out the difference, but, alas, some never do...

IMHO this is much closer to "experience" .
As Justice Holmes said

The life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience...The law embodies the story of a nation's development through many centuries, and it cannot be dealt with as if it contained only the axioms and corollaries of a book of mathematics.

In my work I have found fields in which experience is absolutely vital and others in which it is treacherous. Captain Smith of the TITANIC had vast experience, which led him at full speed into an iceberg.

When I clerked, my judge had been trying cases for 30 years. He knew more aobut liars and prevaricators and perjury than anyone I ever met.

 

[FinanceDude]

I love dropping "f*ck you" comments like that on the manufacturer's regional representative. Dealers are agents of the manufacturer. When they say F*ck you to a manufacturer's customer , The manufacturer loves to hear about it.

Wow!!

 

[FinanceDude]

Yes it's screwing the manufacturer's customer. As GM says
Looking for a new dealer? You've come to the right place!

First, thank you for being our customer. The ongoing reinvention of GM involves the consolidation of our Dealer network. This means that a number of our valued customers will need to locate a new dealer for service or sales. We continue to have a strong Dealer network in place. They are open and staffed by GM-trained Goodwrench experts with Genuine GM parts on hand and are best equipped to service your vehicle.
GM Dealer Availability - Dealer & Service Information | General Motors

Manufacturer's make assurances to customers that they will be treated properly by dealers anywhere in the country

Where do I go for repairs?
Repairs can be handled conveniently though any GM dealership or licensed repair facility in the United States and Canada.

So until your service manager has the balls to say "he is not my customer" to the manufacturer he should simply sit down and do the job he is paid for.

You know nothing about how a dealership works, yet cling to your internal world of how you think a dealership works.......amazing...... How about listening to a couple of us who actually WORKED in that industry, just a thought..........